DaveG74
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Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
I was recently educated by a fellow Sonar user who suggested that all my tracks be directed to the Master Bus and not an audio output. I am enlightened but I'm confused as to why this is necessary. Reviewing several of my projects in progress, I ensured a Master Bus was active and began rerouting tracks accordingly. (These were by default routed to "Speakers".) It was a simple process from which I observed this: SOUNDCENTER TRACK: Master selection available .....(So on/so forth with SI, Roland GrooveSynth, DropZone and SessionDrummer synth tracks) TTS TRACK: Master selection available only from a simple TTS track (not if output TTS track created) TTS AUDIO TRACK: Master selection available Very simple. However, even after doing some research, but I'm still unsure as to why this matters. QUESTION: Why is the Master Bus suggested over outputting to the Track's default "Speakers" selection? Please educate me further. Thanks in advance. :)
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dubdisciple
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/02 17:39:07
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I'm sure you will get multiple reasons but here's one: If the audio is clipping, it is safer to have it clip going to your master bus than to clip going straight to your speakers.
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John
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/02 17:45:58
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The above is one very good reason. The main reason I believe is to have a place to have FX that effects everything going out. A limiter for example.
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mixmkr
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/02 18:11:14
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Along with the above, that's the last gain staging area, where things can be changed, without disturbing the relationship between the tracks. I guess kinda what John said.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/02 18:38:44
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To sum up what we have all alluded to, it comes down to control. Once the sound hits the speaker there is no control. At the very least you want a limiter to protect your speakers. You want meters to make sure you are in compliance with new federal laws regarding loudness. You want analyzers to get an overview of full mix. Going straight to speakers give you nothing but your ears to judge such matters on.
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John
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/02 19:16:48
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Control is the key word. I like to have a Master buss and a few sub buses too. I will most likely have one or two aux buses as well. The sub buses are for routing like instruments together to the same buss. Drums all go to the drum buss and it goes to the master buss. This arrangement lets me have total control over level and FX for all my tracks without having to repeat the same FX and settings on similar tracks. So all the guitars go to a guitar buss. All voices go to a Voice buss and so one. All of those buses will all out to the master buss. Nothing goes to the master directly as a track. With this setup you have control and versatility. I think most of us look at outing directly to the main outs as bad form. Something to avoid. Sonar makes it easy to add buses as needed. Therefor use as many as you need.
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mixmkr
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/02 20:10:05
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plus another place to stick a ProChannel!!
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sharke
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/02 20:44:19
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If you don't have a master bus then you have no way of knowing whether the sum of your tracks is clipping. If you just have them routed directly to your interface then you could easily have a situation whereby all of the individual track meters look fine, but the sum is clipping significantly. When you have that master bus meter you have a very clear indication of when the sum is clipping so that you can set your track faders accordingly.
All I know is that when I first started using DAW's (with Pro Tools), my music was distorting really badly and I didn't know why because all of the tracks looked fine, and it wasn't until someone told me to insert a master bus that everything was hunky-dory!
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RobertB
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/02 21:29:19
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sharke If you don't have a master bus then you have no way of knowing whether the sum of your tracks is clipping. If you just have them routed directly to your interface then you could easily have a situation whereby all of the individual track meters look fine, but the sum is clipping significantly. When you have that master bus meter you have a very clear indication of when the sum is clipping so that you can set your track faders accordingly.
This. The master bus gives you a concise image of the all the cumulative activity in the project. I will always put a spectrum analyzer in the master bus(Voxengo SPAN is my usual choice). If there is any clipping, you can see exactly what frequencies are causing it, and you should have a fair idea of which tracks/instruments it is coming from. More often than not, a little tweak in EQ or level on particular tracks will allow the whole thing to settle in nicely. As other above have mentioned, it's about control. It's also about seeing what you are controlling. The master bus is the final say. If it's good there, it's good.
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John
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/02 21:43:53
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Well the main outs also show clipping.
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konradh
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/02 23:44:58
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I'm confused how you know what level you are outputting when you export audio. Is the level on your Mains (speakers) a correct indication of the output level? I would not want to make a record without a Master fader I could control (for fade-outs, as just one example) and, as others said, without the option of overall EQ, limiting, etc. The other thing is that if you ever bring in another engineer or producer to work on your project, it will really mess him/her up to have a non-standard signal routing. I suppose it could work but I think it would be confusing. If you do use a Master bus, be sure and make it the default and make sure EVERYTHING goes to it. If you have some things going to Master and some bypassing Master and going straight to Mains/Speakers, it will REALLY be confusing. Trust me—that has happened to me and it made me go nuts until I realized it. If you mute Master, everything should go silent.
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John
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 00:02:13
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The way I export a mixdown is I use the master buss only as the source. What is on the master buss is the entire mix. The level is what is shown on that buss. There may be a misunderstanding. The Main outs, also known as the audio device are shown in the Console View. You have meters and two fader for each stereo out. If you have configured your CV right it should have three panes. One for tracks, one for buses and one for the main outs.
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Grumbleweed_
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 07:16:26
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Here's a "good" reason to bypass the Master output: Say you import a reference track (fully mastered) and wanted to compare the sum of your new tracks (that should be going through the Master Buss) and the reference track. If the reference track goes through the Master Buss it will affected by any processing that the Master has on it (I always have a limiter at least on the Master buss) so will be changed and so its use as a reference is compromised. If you route the reference track to the direct outs you can A-B the direct outputs and the Master Buss with confidence that each version is what playing what it should. I would like to point out even the bestest Producers use reference tracks so this isn't a lame idea. Grum.
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Sixfinger
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 07:44:40
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Federal Laws on loudness?
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Sidroe
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 07:45:13
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Grumble, I do use reference tracks side by side in projects as you stated. The reference is always set to a direct out bypassing the master. There is one more step that is helpful. Throw frequency analyzer in to the fx bin on your reference track and use one on your master buss as well. ALWAYS, use your ears but the analyzer helps you see how to at least get in the ballpark with your mixes. I use Ozone 5 to master in X3. It has a feature that allows to play audio from a reference track for a set amount of time, Ozone analyzes it, and then Ozone sets the EQ for you to closely match the frequency curve of the reference track automatically. Not perfect but gets you real close real quick. For it to work correctly it has to be in the Master buss.
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dlion16
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 09:03:53
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vegas 13 has loudness meters with the legal stuff built in. i now bring my sonar mixes into vegas just to do a reality check - if it's green i'm good to go, red, i gotta bring it down. i can also see if it's too low.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 09:33:38
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Sixfinger Federal Laws on loudness?
The CALM Act
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lawp
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 09:51:54
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so you can apply effects to the whole mix before it hits the "master" out (speakers)
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Karyn
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 10:22:29
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lawp so you can apply effects to the whole mix before it hits the "master" out (speakers)
The Master out is not the speakers.. You could have (and I do have) more than one set of speakers. On a hardware mixer a standard scenario would be two pairs of speakers (for A/B comparison), a set of headphones and of course a record output. With Sonar and a sound card your options are limited by the number of outputs on your sound card, but most have at least 4 (2 stereo pairs). The Master is the point in the chain where all the signals are summed together to produce the final output. This is what should be sent to disk when you "export". You send the default output of the Master to your soundcards default speaker output. If you have extra speakers, add a "post send" to the Master and route it to the next pair of outputs on your sound card. Use the Soundcard outputs section of the console (very far right side of the console) to mute/unmute the speakers you want to hear. For monitoring of reference tracks: create a new bus, call it "Reference". Add your favourite limiter in the FX box to protect your speakers from "overs". Send the output to your main speaker output (same as the Master). Place your reference material in a standard track and route it to the "reference" bus, not the Master. Quick group the Master and Reference busses with ONE of them muted. You can now switch between your mix and your reference and back at the press of a single mute button.
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lawp
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 10:27:19
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Karyn
lawp so you can apply effects to the whole mix before it hits the "master" out (speakers)
The Master out is not the speakers.. You could have (and I do have) more than one set of speakers.
sure, i was using the op's terminology, i also have multiple outs
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John
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 14:07:36
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grumbleweed4162 Here's a "good" reason to bypass the Master output: Say you import a reference track (fully mastered) and wanted to compare the sum of your new tracks (that should be going through the Master Buss) and the reference track. If the reference track goes through the Master Buss it will affected by any processing that the Master has on it (I always have a limiter at least on the Master buss) so will be changed and so its use as a reference is compromised. If you route the reference track to the direct outs you can A-B the direct outputs and the Master Buss with confidence that each version is what playing what it should. I would like to point out even the bestest Producers use reference tracks so this isn't a lame idea. Grum.
I will setup a new buss for it that does not go to the master buss but directly to the main outs.
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...wicked
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 14:19:40
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grumbleweed4162 Here's a "good" reason to bypass the Master output: Say you import a reference track (fully mastered) and wanted to compare the sum of your new tracks (that should be going through the Master Buss) and the reference track.
Yup. This is also the reason you DO want a Master bus, so you can isolate both ways. I use a submaster bus which has all my mix goo on it (console sat, tape sat, widener, limiter, etc.). If I do any stem mixing (which is rare but happens) I can then bypass the submaster and route those to the master. The only thing I put on the master bus is SPAN for referencing. Also, if you have another finished track and wanted to use that as a reference for mixing a transition into or out of for an album project it's another good reason for a master bus (or like said above, a reason to have certain material bypass it)
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konradh
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 15:42:51
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To be clear, no judgment here on how anyone else works. Just trying to understand.
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jm24
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 16:44:43
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I Use a MAIN OUT BUS and a MASTER MIX bus : The MAIN OUT BUS is the FIRST bus: easy to get to to adjust. The MAIN OUT bus controls the monitoring volume sent to the audio device, via sonar's main outs. The MAIN OUT bus does NOT have "effects." And no envelopes. The MAIN OUT bus has monitoring tools: Voxengo Span, vintage meter, Panipulator (required),... The second bus is the MASTER MIX bus. All other Buses output to the MASTER MIX bus. Guitars to Guitars All, and then to Instruments All then to MASTER MIX All Drum/Purc buses to Drums All, and then to Instruments All then to MASTER MIX Vocals Main, and background, to Vocals ALL then to MASTER MIX The MASTER MIX bus is output to the MAIN OUT BUS. The MASTER MIX bus is used for bounces. All final effects are in the bin. The MASTER MIX bus may have envelopes for fades and misc. adjustments. I add at least two blank tracks labeled MIX1 and MIX2, to projects. These output to the MAIN OUT bus. NOT directly to the sound device. Not to the MASTER MIX bus. I solo the mix track to listen to the mix(s). When listening to the MIX tracks there is no need to bypass the effects/eq, or change the volume setting, of the MASTER MIX bus when listening to a mix track. And because the MAIN OUT BUS volume is the same, I can compare, audibly and visually, the mix with original tracks. Per CJ's insight, if the mix does not sound correct, before I do anything else, I use control-z (undo) to remove the mix clip, and the wav file from the disk. This means I have fewer orphaned audio files. ALSO: I change the name of the mix tracks (add the date) before bouncing-to-tracks so the wav file will have a reasonable name. I never look at, or change, Sonar's Main Audio Outs.
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bapu
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 17:29:12
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Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"? Because it's how the professionals do it. You want to be as good as a professional, don't you?
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John
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 17:38:08
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Beepster
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 18:00:41
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I route everything to a Pre Master bus and do any final effect stuff there. The master stays blank and set to 0db until the very end (and then I might add a limiter but usually export the stereo wave as is and then apply the limiter in a "mastering" project). This has a lot of benefits for me personally one of which is the issue mentioned upthread... if I want to use a mastered reference track I can route that directly to the unaltered Master bus.
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bapu
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/03 18:35:39
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John No, I want to be better!
Think it and you are.
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DaveG74
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/04 17:57:00
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Wow, this became a hot topic! Thank you for the variety of responses. I've been using Cakewalk software for almost a year and I guess it was finally a few days ago I realized why I need a Master Bus. Based on 90% of these responses, a Master Bus is crucial to monitor and control the audio output of my projects. I have ensured that my custom template contains a Master Bus, as this will be an important element in every new project. If I hadn't addressed this to the Forum, I probably wouldn't have thought of doing it myself. As of the past few days, I've been going through all my projects in progress and routing the tracks to the Master Bus as needed. I haven't put much consideration on additional Buses because my skill/experience level doesn't quite call for that requirement yet. (Frankly, I find the use of extra Buses quite complex and intimidating.) I guess I learn something new all the time! Thanks for all of your input on this.
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Beepster
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Re: Why route to Master Bus vs. "Speakers"?
2014/06/04 18:09:52
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Grundberg Wow, this became a hot topic! Thank you for the variety of responses.  I've been using Cakewalk software for almost a year and I guess it was finally a few days ago I realized why I need a Master Bus. Based on 90% of these responses, a Master Bus is crucial to monitor and control the audio output of my projects. I have ensured that my custom template contains a Master Bus, as this will be an important element in every new project. If I hadn't addressed this to the Forum, I probably wouldn't have thought of doing it myself. As of the past few days, I've been going through all my projects in progress and routing the tracks to the Master Bus as needed. I haven't put much consideration on additional Buses because my skill/experience level doesn't quite call for that requirement yet. (Frankly, I find the use of extra Buses quite complex and intimidating.) I guess I learn something new all the time! Thanks for all of your input on this. 
Actually using "stem" busses can make mixing a lot easier/less confusing. Like sending all your drum tracks to a drum bus, all your guitar tracks to a guitar buss (I use one for lead and another for rhythm), a buss for vocals, etc... That way you can get things balanced with the track faders (like your drum kit mixed) then adjust the entirety of each element instead of linking track faders or readjusting things one at a time. Also it's a good place to add overall effects to grouped instruments (again like drums). You can add some full kit compression or reverb or whatever on the bus and control it there instead of having a million instances of the same effects all over the place (which also consumes more computer resources). Then as you get into more advanced mixing you'll be familiar with busses, how they work and how to route them so creating dedicated reverb, compression busses or multi stage stage processing concepts aren't as intimidating. But generally at least having a drum bus, a bass bus, a guitar buss and a vocal bus all outputting to the master is super useful and in a lot of ways LESS complicated/confusing than only using the track strips.
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