alexoosthoek
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Why so low?
Last night I was in a local pub(working, doing live sound, I even passed the alcohol test going home :) ). During the band brakes the bar-owner used his sound system, nothing wrong with that, but there was so much low from the sub it hurts. I think a sub should add something, not be in front anyway. Is this normal nowadays? To sort of make up for the lows ppl are missing listening to their earplugs connected to whatever? Could be I missed something, has happened before : )
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Rain
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/23 18:57:28
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I don't think it's you. I've made the same observation countless times - even with Cirque shows. Nowadays, they put so much emphasis on the low end that the sound becomes absolutely congested and unbalanced - sometimes enough make me feel dizzy, literally. I guess I am too sensitive to that stuff, but I really need the rest of the frequencies to place everything into context, relatively, otherwise I start feeling physically ill - head spinning and all. If those subs are upfront, it's a bit like I'm being held upside down underwater.
post edited by Rain - 2013/06/23 18:59:46
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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drewfx1
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/23 19:23:10
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I suspect the preponderance of poorly balanced satellite/sub systems, "mega-bass" boomboxes, and ridiculous car systems have led many to believe that "lots of random, severely unbalanced (and probably distorted) bass is a good thing". We went from having little or no low frequency response available to the masses to having LOTS of narrow band, low frequency, boomy disasters. And lots of people actually are under the impression that the same stuff that sounds horrifying to me is actually desirable.
 In order, then, to discover the limit of deepest tones, it is necessary not only to produce very violent agitations in the air but to give these the form of simple pendular vibrations. - Hermann von Helmholtz, predicting the role of the electric bassist in 1877.
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Rain
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/23 19:58:14
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It makes music unintelligible. Which isn't a problem for most people these days because what music is all about is already unintelligible and superfluous to them in the first place.
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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craigb
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/23 20:01:01
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One thing I learned when doing my PhD work is that the brain actually uses the very high frequencies that we supposedly can't hear. Of the many "experimental" devices that I've got to play with, one is an Echofone. I know people who have used them to listen to classical pieces with MUCH better ability to immediately play the piece afterwards. It's on my (long) list of things to try once I can get my studio and other stuff completely back out of storage and set up. This device utilizes frequencies in the 100,000Hz range and was originally designed to help people trying to figure out how dolphins and porpoises communicate. On the other hand, I've also read about experiments that Tesla (et. al.) have done with low and very low frequencies. Most of these proved that they can be very destructive. YMMV. I think the current trend started due to the Fletcher Munson effect (which I just happen to have a document about right HERE ). When playing music at lower levels, the human ear loses (not looses Steve  ) both high end and low end which is why they added that Loudness button to car stereos. Unfortunately, stupid kids some people started using it even when they were already listening to the current trash music at ridiculous higher volumes and it caught on (probably because it annoys adults). Another thing I've learned is that, even if a tune sucks, if it has a good beat that people can feel, they can't help but want to move (or try something approaching dancing) to it.
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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bapu
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/23 20:06:05
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Mooch danced on his couch for the Coffee House when I spent the night there a while back. I was playing an acoustic guitar. Imagine what would have happened if I had been playing the bass.
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craigb
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/23 21:02:50
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bapu Mooch danced on his couch for the Coffee House when I spent the night there a while back. I was playing an acoustic guitar. Imagine what would have happened if I had been playing the bass.
Whoa! You play bass??? Cool!
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/23 21:34:57
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bapu
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/24 00:08:52
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spacey
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/24 08:51:13
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I have an old-timer view and glad I control how much bass is in what I listen to.
post edited by spacey - 2013/06/24 09:25:32
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Guitarhacker
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/24 09:04:26
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Sub is the new cool... a badge of honor.... " my sub's better than your sub".... it shows up on the geological survey department's seismographs and I'm halfway across the country.... It's been that way for a time with the sub systems in cars. You can hear the kick 2 miles away... Sub is good when balanced.... perhaps even to error a few db on the heavy side is OK.... because I personally like the sub .... but yeah, there certainly is a limit to how much to error....
My website & music: www.herbhartley.com MC4/5/6/X1e.c, on a Custom DAW Focusrite Firewire Saffire Interface BMI/NSAI "Just as the blade chooses the warrior, so too, the song chooses the writer "
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Moshkiae
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/24 09:06:55
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Hi, I was playing some music to a neighbor and he was only "getting" the bands that had a heavier bass, and that could pound it, almost like any rap thing that you hear on so many kid's cars these days. I have mentioned that the bass guitar, has to get a bit stronger and more "visible", like the rappers in a way, or the attention span of the music will lose some attention that it should not lose. But it tells you how strong that rap thing has become, and how far it has indented the social milieu in music ... but us ... the musicos ... do not like it ... because it interferes with our ideas of rock music. In the end, it is all ideas ... and we have to learn to mix them better ... and there is nothing wrong with Bing doing some RAP instead of doing an old man's copy ... which is the kind of thing that sometimes we can not see ... or accept. Europe does a lot more of the bassboom thing than in America ... but I can see why DJ's are doing better than most bands these days ... they have the boom ... the bands DON'T! And the bizarre thing? ... you guys can do the BOOM better than the other folks that are not even musicians ... so get off your duff and SHOW'EM who's the BOOM'IER of them all! And it's not like Bapu doesn't know how to use his bass to do the Boom! It's his mind that doesn't! So, guess what ... the CHB has work to do!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/24 09:11:02
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Moshkiae
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/24 09:19:26
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mike_mccue google: Meme
Ohhhh ... dang ... so you are suggesting that the DAW mania that flies in this board is not a MEME, itself? All anyone has to read is one of my posts, for several folks to get all shook up about different music, because it doesn't fit "their" MEME's ... I have a virtual dislike for meme's ... with one slight problem ... you know that you work all your life getting rid of boxes, so you can box yourself, and then you get to the pint (point!) where you can't find the box that gets rid of all the boxes! And it is at points like this, that pure free form and insanity is best for me ... it's always different and weird ... but it helps define the next step ... if not your attitude towards it all ... but maybe it is easier to just stick with the same thing over and over again ... even if the marriage is now stale? But you think that Strummy will try to play with a buzz saw? ... no way ... or he will think he is copying Toni McPhee! Or Bapu making one of those Bass Booms sound stupid? If he wants to! In the end ... we DON'T want to get off the bus ... and do something different. We're afraid that our "friends" won't like and they will go have a drink somewhere else ... nice friends, ohh hyeah!
post edited by Moshkiae - 2013/06/24 09:26:26
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/24 09:22:12
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It took me a while to figure it out... ... but you are my kinda people Mosh! all the best, mike
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alexoosthoek
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/24 19:22:51
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Rain I don't think it's you. I've made the same observation countless times - even with Cirque shows. Nowadays, they put so much emphasis on the low end that the sound becomes absolutely congested and unbalanced - sometimes enough make me feel dizzy, literally. I guess I am too sensitive to that stuff, but I really need the rest of the frequencies to place everything into context, relatively, otherwise I start feeling physically ill - head spinning and all. If those subs are upfront, it's a bit like I'm being held upside down underwater.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks too much low is confusing. Maybe this is the "lowness war"?
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Zonno
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/26 16:25:33
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A loud sub creates standing waves in your beer that will help to keep the foam/beer head up.
Cakewalk, Reason 10, KOMPLETE 11, BIAB 2018, Roland OctaCapture, Finale 26, PCR-300, HP ZBook, Guitars __________________ Any text above is a random collection of characters which bear no meaning whatsoever. The reader will be held liable for any damage due to interpretation of these characters.
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soens
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/27 13:36:42
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bapu
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/27 14:01:16
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mike_mccue It took me a while to figure it out... ... but you are my kinda people Mosh! all the best, mike
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craigb
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Re: Why so low?
2013/06/27 18:13:01
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soens I had a sub for lunch...
* Nah, had to edit myself on this one! LOL! *
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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