Why the "new PRV" is a work flow killer and how to fix it.

2017.10
Open a new project with 16 midi tracks.
In PRV "Filter to Selection on Open" is selected. Thank you for that! Good and necessary!

So, I open 2 PRV windows.
The first only has only track #1 in it.
I create a filter called "1"

The second PRV has tracks 10 thru 16
and I create a filter called "10-16".

I make sure both PRV windows are set exactly the way I want them then make sure "Lock Content" is checked in both,
and then lock the screen set.
Close Sonar.
Reopen the Test Project and both PRV Windows are showing all 16 tracks!
*****
Even though the Filter names "1" and "10-16" are showing on the correct PRV window
Clicking them to blue (on) hides all the tracks.
I then have to tunnel down under the filter menu and intentionally re-select the correct filter and then it shows the correct tracks.
-------

Ok ...
Now, typically ... my most basic orchestral template is:
27 String tracks
6 Brass Tracks
22 Wood Wind Tracks
20 Percussion Tracks

Each of those sections has a screen set and at least 1 PRV open containing the whole section,
but it's quite typical that in the strings screen set I'll have 3 or 4 PRV open and locked
because I want to isolate certain sections of the song by what articulations are being used.
Sometime I might also have and extra or 2 PRV open and content locked in the other sections also
because I'm comparing how smaller groups of instruments like how the FHorns relate to just the bassoons and the cellos.
That might be in the brass screen set or the WWinds screen set depending on where I was when I felt the need to do the comparison.
Generally you get the idea.

So let's count them up (and I'll be conservative) and say:
3 PRV in the Strings
2 in the brass
2 in the WWinds
1 in the Percussion
8 Total

Now If I add other stuff (and I sometimes do) like 1 or 2 instances of Omnisphere, Stylus RMX,
and an other instance of Kontakt with thinks in it like Damage, random ethnic percussion and ethnic strings or odd horns,
there can be an other 3 or 4 PRV open and content locked in their own screen set.
ok ... conservative
total is now 11 PRV.

So now, go back to ***** above
and imagine the work flow slow down ... having to reset all of these PRV Filters
to show only what they're supposed to be showing!
---
It works perfectly in 2017.01.
It's bullet proof and totally reliable ... as long as the screen set is locked.
---
Even a more simple EDM tune using 10 screen sets that has 8 screen sets with 1 PRV window open and content locked.
Every time I open it everything, in every screen set is exactly where it should be ... as long as I lock the screen set.
i.e. in 2017.01
So, even with a simple layout (simple for me that is) the new PRV would be a big time suck every time I open even a simple project.
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You want to make the new PRV and a few other things really great and ready for prime time Orchestral and Film scoring?
Here's what needs to be fixed:

1) A locked screen set needs to have *Absolute Control* over the PRV and how the filter was set when the SS was locked.

2) There needs to be an option to toggle: Show all Tracks(always) / Show Only Selected track
"Show Only Selected Track" is the way it works now - i.e. unless you wipe your mouse all the way down over all the tracks,
and that is a real *time suck* when there are more than 6 or 8 tracks in the PRV and you have to do it every time you want to see everything.

3) Having the MSR buttons on the far right is just plain thoughtless. Some one must have though they're not important?
If we're in PRV and doing any serious work they should be on the left so we can shrink (without snap) the width of the right column to see only what we need to see.
We need that horizontal screen real estate for getting things done.

4) A hot key to lock and unlock the current screen set ...
... along with a really obvious colour on the screen set numbers showing locked and unlocked.
The colour they are now for unlocked, and the blue that's used on the PRV filter would be perfect.
Other odd quirks:
Having the track column on the right "snap" to specific widths is an annoyance.
---
General over view:
The new idea of 'by default' having all tracks show in PRV is a real mistake in my opinion.
The old track picker worked great ... but we seem to be stuck with the new default now so I can live with it.
The new Controller lane is a big win in my opinion. Good work on that!

P.S. Done testing ... rolled back to 2017.01 where I can get some seriously fast work done.

EDIT: Next day. Tested again. Same exact results.
Can someone please verify?
Thank you!

Your list Steve, would be great for ALL that work with PRV.
I struggle with the PRV when trying to toggle between instruments often.
Was hoping it would be fixed soon.. 

Steve_Karl
2017.10
Open a new project with 16 midi tracks...

I don't want to tell you what you should be doing with your spare time or anything, but...
 
It sounds to me like you'd make a fantastic member of Cakewalk's beta testing team.  Having done beta testing work for organisations in the past myself, I can tell you that it is a great way to have a small influence on the direction of the product.  I don't know, but if they don't have a person on the team at the moment who works with such complex midi projects, they are not going to spot these show-stoppers before the product gets released.
 
Food for thought, but maybe you should apply?
 
Bill.

       

soens
FWIW, (2¢?), I'm not happy with the new PRV changes either. Maybe a POLL to vote on upcoming changes would give users a chance to participate in how SONAR is shaped in the future.

I suspect a poll might show a lot of people are happy with the new PRV because they can use it more easily for their particular way of working.
I remember a lot of people liking it when it just came out of the oven and it was much more broken than it is now.
That's great ... and I'm happy for them.

However my hopes for Sonar in general, with the PRV being a major part of it,
are that it expands in capability and power without loosing its ease of use and appeal to simplicity.

They got the controller lane happening and it now is better for work flow and speed of use than the older one.

The track list is in it's infantile stages.
1/2 the height is good, but the rest of it is a downgrade (in my opinion) compared to 2017.01 and before
and all the way back to Sonar 4.

I think what should have happened is that the style of Track Management used in Track View and The Console View
should have been used to replace the old Track Picker as opposed to forcing all tracks into the PRV by default.
That would have eliminated the need for filters.
It would also create consistency where typing "H" in any view shows the same result.

And while we're at it,
take that new Track Manager idea, that is now working in all 3 major areas, 
Track View, Console View and PRV
and make the window resizable and also able to be locked to the size desired ...
it's called "remember window state" in other programs ...
... so that we can see every track/folder in the project with out having to scroll down a small column.
But of course it would need to be bullet proof but subservient to screen sets.

Screen sets need to have ~absolute control over every visual aspect~ of the GUI for that particular SS.
Absolute control!

When you lock a screen set it needs to be absolutely locked with no questions asked.


 

BRuys

Steve_Karl
2017.10
Open a new project with 16 midi tracks...

I don't want to tell you what you should be doing with your spare time or anything, but...
It sounds to me like you'd make a fantastic member of Cakewalk's beta testing team. 

Thanks Bill. Interesting thought ...
... but aren't we all beta testers already?
Isn't that why these updates are released once a month?

The only thing I'd be interested in would be sitting in a position where I guide the direction of change.

Have you tried right clicking on your PRV tabs and choosing "Lock contents" ?