reader1
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Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
I'm curious the term of Bounce in sona. according to its usage, mix two or more tracks into one audio track in order to save memory resources.
but why not use term Mix? is there any more meaning than mix has with respect of the bounce?
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/04/30 10:01:07
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yeah, you come out of your recorder and *bounce* off of the mixer back into the recorder. now a days, we just "render"... and that term reminds some of us of grizzle and horse glue so the term bounce persists. I am not even just making that up. Or something like that.
post edited by mike_mccue - 2010/04/30 10:02:17
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papa2005
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/04/30 10:01:13
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reader1
I'm curious the term of Bounce in sona. according to its usage, mix two or more tracks into one audio track in order to save memory resources.
but why not use term Mix? is there any more meaning than mix has with respect of the bounce?
The term "Bounce" dates back the the days of analog tape studios where you might have a limited number of tracks to work with. At some point during a projects the artist or producer might decide to add more overdubs but not have enough open tracks to do so. In those instances the engineer would "Bounce" two or more already recorded parts (such as background vocals, rhythm guitars, percussion, toms, etc.,) to a single track or split to two single tracks, therefore opening up additional resources on the multitrack tape deck... The term "Mix" is used to describe the technique of blending all of the recorded tracks into a final result (usually a stereo .wav file that will be sent to the "mastering" stage and prepared for CD burning)... I'm sure I could have been clearer in my explanation but it's the best I can do... 
Regards, Papa CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5 CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials... CLICK HERE for a link to Getting Started with Session Drummer 3...
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devilcat78
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/04/30 10:07:13
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In the first days of tape recording, the 50's and early 60's, most studios had 3track and 4track tape recorders. This meant that if you wanted to do a lot of extra parts, or "Overdubs", you had to "Bounce" tracks to an open track to open up the others for odubs. Yes essentially, this is mixing (which the term mixdown came from this concept as well), but this is how the term came about. Food for thought, Sgt. Peppers was done on a 4-track recorder, that's bouncing like crazy!! edit: i type so slow, you dudes beat me to it...
post edited by devilcat78 - 2010/04/30 10:08:34
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rbowser
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/04/30 10:39:32
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Thread contest: Who gave the most helpful response? The Winner: Papa! - I thought your response was perfectly clear. You straight-forwardly explained exactly what people are referring to nowadays when they use the terms "bounce" and "mix," and you made the difference clear. Prize: ---um---- the privilege of continuing to answer questions as they pour in.  rbowser
Sonar X3e Studio Roland A-800 MIDI keyboard controller Alesis i|O2 interface Gigabyte Technology-AMD Phenom II @ 3 GHz 8 Gb RAM 6 Core Windows 7 Home Premium x64 with dual monitors
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/04/30 10:44:02
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Hey... wait a minute rbowser... I think I should get a gold start for actually explaining the reason "bounce" became a shared and easily understood metaphor.
The bouncing part of bounce is sort of vital to a complete understanding of where the term came from.
:-)
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reader1
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/04/30 11:05:33
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Thank you all for the prompt wonderful explanation.
ah, that seems your habitual term in recording. when blend tw0 or more events like effect, vocal, which each took possesion of one track, into one track in order to supply as more tracks as possible with next recording materials. this process is called as " bounce",
and the last process blending to final audio product is called as mix, or mixdown.
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reader1
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/04/30 11:22:15
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quit like our chinese terms in recording process in the past ages. We call it as "dao teng " into one track or other place to save these valuable resources for final mix.
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Crg
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/04/30 18:29:19
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Well, the difference between bouncing and mixing has to do with real time adjustments that you can do while you're mixing. You can do some adjustments when you bounce with the insertion of effects but once you hit the bounce to button, it's all automatic and controlled by software rather than a real time-moving fader- human applied adustment-mix to what is playing. In effect you are bouncing material off of a set parameter of commands to a final result of the sum of the commands.
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Chuck E. Jesus
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/04/30 20:27:48
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it's from early hip-hop: when the rapper had to do an overdub and needed to really concentrate he would say "yo bi-atch, it's time to bounce"...
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bitman
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/04/30 21:35:32
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Gosh, it's come to this?
Must be time for a new version.
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papa2005
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/01 05:21:45
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Crg
Well, the difference between bouncing and mixing has to do with real time adjustments that you can do while you're mixing. You can do some adjustments when you bounce with the insertion of effects but once you hit the bounce to button, it's all automatic and controlled by software rather than a real time-moving fader- human applied adustment-mix to what is playing. In effect you are bouncing material off of a set parameter of commands to a final result of the sum of the commands.
Craig, I sometimes wonder what it is that you're smoking in your avatar...*LOL*
Regards, Papa CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5 CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials... CLICK HERE for a link to Getting Started with Session Drummer 3...
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strikinglyhandsome1
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/01 06:04:42
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Just bought a rubber ball.
It mixes really well.
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Crg
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/01 07:26:14
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Craig, I sometimes wonder what it is that you're smoking in your avatar...*LOL* Please feel free to add your veiws on the subject rather than making some pissy little remark.
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Jim Roseberry
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/01 10:33:25
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but why not use term Mix? You can mix without bouncing (rendering) down the results to stereo... That's why the term bounce is used to convey a mixdown that's been rendered to two tracks.
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papa2005
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/01 10:47:48
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Crg
Craig, I sometimes wonder what it is that you're smoking in your avatar...*LOL*
Please feel free to add your veiws on the subject rather than making some pissy little remark.
Craig, I wasn't making a "pissy little remark"...The *LOL* I inserted was intended to indicate the humor I was attempting in reference to the complexity of the "red highlighted" section of your previous post... If you'll scroll up the page you'll see that I actually DID add my views and offer a definition of the origins of the terms... 
Regards, Papa CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5 CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials... CLICK HERE for a link to Getting Started with Session Drummer 3...
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Crg
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/01 17:43:21
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papa2005
Crg
Well, the difference between bouncing and mixing has to do with real time adjustments that you can do while you're mixing. You can do some adjustments when you bounce with the insertion of effects but once you hit the bounce to button, it's all automatic and controlled by software rather than a real time-moving fader- human applied adustment-mix to what is playing. In effect you are bouncing material off of a set parameter of commands to a final result of the sum of the commands.
Craig,
I sometimes wonder what it is that you're smoking in your avatar...*LOL*
You know dude, when you make a statement like that you're inferring I'm wrong. So once again, either come up with some factual material that is pertinent to this post and subject, or shut the F**k Up and get off my back.
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bitman
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/01 19:45:06
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This has 'prolly been said in this thread and I'm sorry if that is so but:
In the day of tape and limited tracksm if you got close to the end of the available tracks say 6 out of eight and wanted to add 4 more you could "Bounce" some of the recorded tracks to a stereo pair on those two remaining open tracks thereby freeing the source tracks of the bounce to be overwritten.
When all tracks were recorded we went to the "mixdown" phase.
Why it's always bounce in Sonar? Most likely because as previously stated in this thread you turn the software loose to mix it down by itself.
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papa2005
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/01 19:49:03
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bitman
This has 'prolly been said in this thread and I'm sorry if that is so but:
In the day of tape and limited tracksm if you got close to the end of the available tracks say 6 out of eight and wanted to add 4 more you could "Bounce" some of the recorded tracks to a stereo pair on those two remaining open tracks thereby freeing the source tracks of the bounce to be overwritten.
When all tracks were recorded we went to the "mixdown" phase.
Why it's always bounce in Sonar? Most likely because as previously stated in this thread you turn the software loose to mix it down by itself.
Post #3...I stated all of this about "the day of tape"...
Regards, Papa CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5 CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials... CLICK HERE for a link to Getting Started with Session Drummer 3...
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/01 23:41:08
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If I may, it seems people might be missing the point... You BOUNCE back to the original recording device.... You MIX to another device. It's simple. That's the original context of the metaphor of "bouncing"... it really doesn't have much to do with comparing it directly to "mixing"... you can "mix" all you want while bouncing... but the key idea is that you are returning the signal back to the tape reel. You can can balance and blend all you want when you're either bouncing or mixing. The work flow where you go back and forth between decks... is a variant of bouncing... but it's an extension of the idea going back and forth... "bouncing". Does that make sense? best, mike
post edited by mike_mccue - 2010/05/01 23:42:39
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Jeff Evans
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/01 23:55:17
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People keep referring to these terms for older tape technology but what about current technology. One does not bounce or mix to any other external device usually these days.
During a mix you may bounce some tracks eg you might be working on a hip hop tune and have 8 vocal harmony parts. Rather than process them all individually, you might decide to bounce them to a stereo track. In a way you are mixing these vocal tracks as well at the same time.
Mixing is a different activity. It is obviously about getting the balance right but once you have, you can then bounce your mix to a stereo track as well. I prefer to use the word print a mix to a final stereo track. It is a bit clearer in that it usually means it is the final bounce that you do.
I love off line and fast bouncing though. That is a very cool feature. I think maybe the word bounce does come from the ball. When you bounce a ball here it goes over there. In the old days we had to do it in order to fit everything in the track limits we had. But these days I think bouncing is more about turning a number of tracks into one stereo track.
As Mike says bouncing is not just about sitting back and letting the software do it all. One can do quite a lot of mixing while something is bouncing.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/02 00:00:58
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"People keep referring to these terms for older tape technology but what about current technology. One does not bounce or mix to any other external device usually these days." Yes, that makes sense... I am just explaining specifically WHY the word "bounce" seemed to make sense... now a days it doesn't make sense... it's just a institutionalized term. It seemed like that was the OP's specific question... "why the heck do they call it *"bounce*?" We all know what we are really doing is "rendering". :-)
post edited by mike_mccue - 2010/05/02 00:05:59
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John
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/02 00:26:07
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Jeff I am not sure what rendering really means where I know exactly what bounce means. ( I have always thought of rendering as having a quality component to it as in 32 bit vs 64 bit.) Bounce is an industry term that has no relation to any thing audio unless it were used with a spring reverb.  Often words used in a distinct area of work may arise that people not in that area would never guess as to their true meaning. Printing is more descriptive but also confusing. (I do have a printer.) (In Sonar's case you may have a point because of no one would ever want to print a score from it.) Me, I use export and bounce to refer to those things respectively and freeze too. If I am not mistaken the manual also uses those terms in the way I do. I have always said learning the language of any study will help you in understanding it. I should add this The word bounce applies equally to a DAW as it did to a tape deck. The notion of "external" is only there because the tracks coming to a hardware mixing desk seem to be "external" to the tape deck. But that is not the case. They were referring to bouncing down many tracks to fewer tracks on the tape deck or decks. The mixing desk allows this in the same way that the virtual mixing desk of Sonar does. This is just one way to use the term. It has come to mean any sort of making a record of either a bunch of tracks or a single track that has processing in it. Boy was that hard to find words that said the same thing without using the same words.
post edited by John - 2010/05/02 00:43:01
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Crg
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/02 08:40:13
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mike_mccue
If I may, it seems people might be missing the point...
You BOUNCE back to the original recording device....
You MIX to another device.
It's simple.
That's the original context of the metaphor of "bouncing"... it really doesn't have much to do with comparing it directly to "mixing"... you can "mix" all you want while bouncing... but the key idea is that you are returning the signal back to the tape reel.
You can can balance and blend all you want when you're either bouncing or mixing.
The work flow where you go back and forth between decks... is a variant of bouncing... but it's an extension of the idea going back and forth... "bouncing".
Does that make sense?
best,
mike
That all makes excellent sense to me Mike. I think the OP wanted to know in reference to the function in Sonar which is a slightly different set of parameters. Certainly the two terms are connected and perform a similar function.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/02 09:14:06
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Thank you so much Craig, :-)
I was feeling ignored... and I thought what I was trying to convey was pertinent. :-)
best regards,
mike
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papa2005
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/02 10:33:57
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Let me try to clarify what I perceive as the reason SONAR still uses the term "bounce"...
With all (or most) DAW's we have unlimited tracks, right? Does that mean we have unlimited resources? Not necessarily...
In the analog tape days we "bounced" ("mixing" them while doing so) multiple tracks to a lesser number of tracks in order to open up more "resources" (tape tracks) for additional overdubs...
Let's move now to the DAW world:
Let's say you have a project with 12 instances of softsynth MIDI tracks. Everything plays just fine until you try to add another softsynth. Perhaps your system just can't handle the load you're imposing on it. Maybe you get the "crackles & pops" that so many users mention due to running very low latency buffers. If you "bounce" a few of the softsynth tracks and then "Archive" the original MIDI sources (which takes them completely out of the system) you've now opened up more "resources" to improve performance...
To get even more technical, the term "mixing" is actually the art of blending two or more audio signals to a common destination...For example, if you are wanting to record an acoustic drum kit with 10 mics but you only want to use 8 tracks then you "mix" the mics to get the desired sound of the entire kit...In analog days we used the term "mix down" to describe taking ALL of the tracks of the multitrack tape and combining them into a mono or stereo signal that could then be routed to a 1/4" or 1/2" tape deck.
I don't understand why this thread has turned into a pi**ing contest...The origin of the terms "bounce" & "mix" have been a part of studio recording for decades...
Regards, Papa CLICK HERE for a link to support for SONAR 8.5 CLICK HERE to view a list of video tutorials... CLICK HERE for a link to Getting Started with Session Drummer 3...
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ChristopherM
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/02 15:00:58
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You know dude, when you make a statement like that you're inferring I'm wrong. So once again, either come up with some factual material that is pertinent to this post and subject, or shut the F**k Up and get off my back. Well ... I'm guessing from the lack of mellow it isn't Cannabis sativa
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reader1
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/05 06:45:11
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Where is PGDCode? I can see nothing from my IE6.
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Jind
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/05 07:58:15
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I found this definition that makes perfect sense to me: "Bounce" describes the process of exporting several tracks in an audio mix to one mono track or two stereo tracks. This helps consolidate audio tracks after they have been mixed. Bouncing audio tracks limits the need for processing power since the computer only has to process one track instead of all the tracks individually.
I have always assumed the term "bounce" itself comes from the idea that you take a ball and throw it "down" to the ground to initiate the bounce. The act of bouncing is also a metaphorical downward motion as you are mixing "down" a select number of tracks to consolidate them to a lesser number of used tracks. Is it necessary in today's world of unlimited tracks and storage space, not to mention nearly unlimited processing power - probably not, but it's just a work-flow many are used to and I'm sure some use it still quite regularly in their day in and day out process.
Jind Sonar X2 PE, Cakewalk V Studio 100; Intel i7 w/ 16 GB Ram, MS Windows 8.1
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skullsession
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Re:Why use the term "Bounce" instead of "Mixing"?
2010/05/05 08:08:22
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I can bounce a ball off of a ceiling.
Isn't that bouncing UP?
HOOK: Skullsessions.com / Darwins God Album "Without a doubt I would have far greater listening and aural skills than most of the forum members here. Not all but many I am sure....I have done more listening than most people." - Jeff Evans on how awesome Jeff Evans is.
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