jkoseattle
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 556
- Joined: 2004/10/21 16:29:48
- Status: offline
Why won't it pan?
I have an audio track, many tracks, actually, which will only pan in one direction. Panning one way works, panning the other way just moves it center. Here is what I've tried: - Soloed track
- Converted track to mono (which I wanted to do anyway)
- Bypassed all audio effects
- Re-routed output directly to sound card output
- Removed Sends
Now I hear the original dry track, directed directly to the sound card output, in mono, with no effects. Still will only pan between right and center. If the track's Pan is centered, the track plays at 50% right. When I pan full left, the track sounds in center. What's weird is that other tracks have the same problem, but some of them only pan between LEFT and center! If I output the track to the master bus, it pans correctly when I turn the master bus's pan. I feel something is terribly wrong here and I'm only seeing a glimpse of the bigger problem through this panning issue. Don't know if this is relevant, but yesterday I spent a long time adjusting levels and making some volume envelopes, only realizing at the end of the day that I'd been in Envelope Offset mode the whole time. This morning I sat down to re-assess all the levels but not in the Offset mode. What might be causing this panning issue?
Sonar Version: Platinum Audio Interface: M-Audio Delta Computer: Dell i5 3.1 GHz, 12Gb RAM, Windows 10 64-bit Soft Synths: EastWest PLAY Symphonic Orchestra MIDI Controllers: M-Audio 2x2 MidiSport Anniv Edition Settings: 16-Bit, Sample Rate 44.1k, ASIO Buffer Size 128-1024, Record/Playback I/O Buffers play:256k, rec: 64k, Total Round Trip Latency 48 ms Check out my work here
|
Dave76
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 171
- Joined: 2015/01/21 20:08:30
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/01 16:02:33
(permalink)
What plug-ins do you have on the track? I've found that certain plug-ins seem to confuse SONAR and lock it into some weird mode with relation to mono/stereo that is similar to what you describe. This is the case even if you bypass the plug-in.
|
jkoseattle
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 556
- Joined: 2004/10/21 16:29:48
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/01 17:10:58
(permalink)
Sonitus EQ, also Sonitus Delay, which I'm not using and is disabled and was just left in there.
Sonar Version: Platinum Audio Interface: M-Audio Delta Computer: Dell i5 3.1 GHz, 12Gb RAM, Windows 10 64-bit Soft Synths: EastWest PLAY Symphonic Orchestra MIDI Controllers: M-Audio 2x2 MidiSport Anniv Edition Settings: 16-Bit, Sample Rate 44.1k, ASIO Buffer Size 128-1024, Record/Playback I/O Buffers play:256k, rec: 64k, Total Round Trip Latency 48 ms Check out my work here
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/01 17:27:02
(permalink)
Hi. You should not happen to have a stereo file (or fx) in a mono track, or vice versa? I have seen cases where that has been an issue. Sorry if this is obvious. All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
BRainbow
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 399
- Joined: 2004/03/14 01:39:12
- Location: Honolulu, Hawai'i
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/01 21:58:43
(permalink)
Are you inadveertaintly routing it to the wrong mono output on your soundcard? Is there a hidden track or clip pan automation envelope that you are not seeing?
Cakewalk (forever), Two WIN10 64-bit DAWs: home-brew ASRock x299 Taichi / i7 7820x w/ 64GB RAM and ASUS X99A-II / i7-5820K w/ 32GB RAM, ZOOM UAC 8, Mackie ONYX 1640i FW Mixer/Interface, Mackie ONYX 1200F, Avalon U5 PreAmp, NI Komplete 11 Ultimate, EastWest Composer CloudX, Yamaha MOTIF XS8, Ensoniq SD-1 and ESQ-1, Korg M1rEX, Yamaha TX-81Z, Roland D110, Line6 HELIX Rack and Native, POD HD-Pro, POD Farm 2.5, Yamaha NS-10 and Presonus Eris E8 monitors, Yamaha Disklavier Upright Piano, mics, guitars, basses, and the cutest little tambourine.
|
msorrels
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1025
- Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/01 23:31:09
(permalink)
Sounds like you turned on offset mode and then changed the pan. Then if you turn offset mode off, that pan effect will remain, even though you brought the pan back to center. It's a very confusing mode in Sonar since just toggling it off doesn't undo the changes you made while it was on (and the change becomes sort of invisible). Since the command is mapped to 'O' on the keyboard it's not uncommon to turn it on by accident. If you bring up the Sonar help and type in "offset mode" you can find some topics on it. Also search here on the forum. I'm not really 100% sure how to completely remove offset mode changes once you have made them. If you toggle offset mode on (button on the Mix panel in the control bar) you can look at all your pan's and volume sliders and see if they are changed and change them back, offset mode puts some +/- signs next to things it can effect. This is what I've done but their might be an easier way.
post edited by msorrels - 2016/05/02 07:10:18
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/02 05:55:44
(permalink)
Yes, your method is perfectly workable IF the problem goes back to using offset mode. OP: Double check that the track is actually set to mono interleave in the Track Inspector. I just converted a Stereo Clip to Mono and yep, the interleave stayed as Stereo
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
jkoseattle
Max Output Level: -79 dBFS
- Total Posts : 556
- Joined: 2004/10/21 16:29:48
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/03 11:06:30
(permalink)
msorrels got it right, the problem was setting a bunch of pans while inadvertently in offset mode. Simple matter of returning to offset mode, centering the pans, and turning offset mode off again. I'm new to offset mode, and while I can see the utility of it in theory, it is yet another good-idea-but-confusingly-executed Sonar feature. I'll stay away as much as I can. Thanks everyone!
Sonar Version: Platinum Audio Interface: M-Audio Delta Computer: Dell i5 3.1 GHz, 12Gb RAM, Windows 10 64-bit Soft Synths: EastWest PLAY Symphonic Orchestra MIDI Controllers: M-Audio 2x2 MidiSport Anniv Edition Settings: 16-Bit, Sample Rate 44.1k, ASIO Buffer Size 128-1024, Record/Playback I/O Buffers play:256k, rec: 64k, Total Round Trip Latency 48 ms Check out my work here
|
msorrels
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1025
- Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/03 14:48:50
(permalink)
Offset mode is very useful but I think Cakewalk failed at "finishing" it. There needs to be some project level control features and some sort of visual indication it has been applied/is effecting a project. I'd think some sort of text/color-status in the control bar warning Offset mode changes are being applied and a menu item to reset/clear all offset mode changes would go a long way to making it work.
|
Klaus
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 320
- Joined: 2009/07/14 07:34:02
- Location: Cologne, Germany
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/03 15:36:19
(permalink)
Offset Mode on:
SONAR Platinum ∞RME HDSPe AIO - Windows 10 64bit - Intel i7 2600K - 16 GB RAM
|
msorrels
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1025
- Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/03 16:41:29
(permalink)
If you turn on offset mode (and the tiny button does light up) and then change things (vol/pan) and turn it off, those changes continue to effect the entire project but there is no visual indication they are being applied. That's the part that is confusing and the issue. And there is no way to clear/zero/reset all those offset mode changes.
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/03 17:46:43
(permalink)
I agree. If you're not extremely careful when in offset mode you can get into a horrible mess. I rarely mess with to be honest and on the few times I have, did a save as before using it so I can easily go back to sanity.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/03 18:14:41
(permalink)
msorrels And there is no way to clear/zero/reset all those offset mode changes.
This would be a very nice feature. I rarely use offset mode (by choice), but when I do (mostly by a mishap with a keystroke), I always do something that makes me lose what I am trying to do. Then I try to step back / backtrack until I find what stupid thing I have been doing wrong. It mostly boils down to me typing "O" by mistake. I do not think I am going to learn from my mistakes anytime soon, as I make more and more of them day by day (in my little world  ). All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/03 18:21:43
(permalink)
The "O" key binding (default) was removed with SONAR 2015 IIRC for the reasons already mentioned.
Huge +1 for the ability to monitor and/or reset all parameters affected by offset mode.
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/03 18:32:14
(permalink)
mettelus The "O" key binding (default) was removed with SONAR 2015 IIRC for the reasons already mentioned.
A good example of my short term memory
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
Tom B
Max Output Level: -88 dBFS
- Total Posts : 107
- Joined: 2015/01/30 18:59:42
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/03 18:40:59
(permalink)
mettelus The "O" key binding (default) was removed with SONAR 2015 IIRC for the reasons already mentioned.
In Platinum 3.2016, the lower-case "o" key still toggles Offset Mode. Oddly, it shows up as "Unassigned" in the Keyboard Shortcut preferences (Global and Console contexts). Yes, "o" appears removed but is still active. At least that's what's happening with my setup. edit: clarified lower-case
- Tom B. See the new Cakewalk by Bandlab Forum - Jan 2019.
|
Zargg
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 10666
- Joined: 2014/09/28 04:20:14
- Location: Norway
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/03 18:49:31
(permalink)
Tom B
mettelus The "O" key binding (default) was removed with SONAR 2015 IIRC for the reasons already mentioned.
In Platinum 3.2016, the "O" key still toggles Offset Mode. Oddly, it shows up as "Unassigned" in the Keyboard Shortcut preferences (Global and Console contexts). Yes, "O" appears removed but is still active. At least that's what's happening with my setup.
That would seem to one of my many pits to fall into. I knew I did something wrong lately  And offset mode being one of them. I might learn something some day.. All the best.
Ken Nilsen ZarggBBZWin 10 Pro X64, Cakewalk by Bandlab, SPlat X64, AMD AM3+ fx-8320, 16Gb RAM, RME Ucx (+ ARC), Tascam FW 1884, M-Audio Keystation 61es, *AKAI MPK Pro 25, *Softube Console1, Alesis DM6 USB, Maschine MkII Laptop setup: Win 10 X64, i5 2.4ghz, 8gb RAM, 320gb 7200 RPM HD, Focusrite Solo, + *
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/04 00:25:21
(permalink)
Tom B
mettelus The "O" key binding (default) was removed with SONAR 2015 IIRC for the reasons already mentioned.
In Platinum 3.2016, the lower-case "o" key still toggles Offset Mode. Oddly, it shows up as "Unassigned" in the Keyboard Shortcut preferences (Global and Console contexts). Yes, "o" appears removed but is still active. At least that's what's happening with my setup.
Maybe keyboard shortcuts persist? Offset mode is incredibly useful. As usual, this forum has given me an idea for a Tip of the Week: "Best Practices for Offset Mode, and Why It's So Darn Cool."
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/04 03:38:15
(permalink)
☄ Helpfulby Zargg71 2016/05/04 04:25:49
Do it Craig - you know you want to!
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
jpetersen
Max Output Level: -61 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1499
- Joined: 2015/07/11 20:22:53
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/04 06:08:59
(permalink)
Yes. I, too, fell into the offset mode trap way back when - I think many do. I'd also appreciate a tip-of-the-week on this feature.
|
subtlearts
Max Output Level: -53.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2200
- Joined: 2006/01/10 05:59:21
- Location: Berlin
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/04 06:51:59
(permalink)
O is unassigned and definitely does nothing here (latest build). I may bind it to something now that I know that! I rarely use offset but am definitely interested in clever/useful/cool applications, so bring on that tip-o'-the-week Craig!
|
msorrels
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1025
- Joined: 2003/11/08 02:04:59
- Location: Pittsburgh, PA
- Status: offline
Re: Why won't it pan?
2016/05/04 13:00:19
(permalink)
As a rule it's tricky for any app to change the "defaults" for key bindings and also let users customize their own bindings. I'm pretty sure this default change falls into that, some older version users may very well have it bound to a key/still bound. The keybinding UI also never seems to work right for me, it claims nothing is bound to commands that are clearly bound and a host of other logic defying issues. It and the drum map editor both need serious UI improvements.
|