Widening vocals

WAVES S-1 PLUG
 
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/S1StereoPlug?adpos=1t1&creative=83049426001&device=c&matchtype=b&network=g&gclid=CObdnem3jskCFZWDaQodehENkQ
 
 

Yeah, cloning doesn't give you that huge width that layer upon layer does, unfortunately. Tedious as hell but man it works! The EQ trick and a bit of sliding around does work to a degree but it tends to collapse a bit when you sum to mono.

Danny Danzi also mentioned Clone Ensemble and that's great alternative if you need a quick fix. So long as you have at least 3 or 4 unique tracks (either the same or harmonies), that can really add a lot of size to everything.

are we talking about 'widening'.........
 
or stacking?
 

batsbrew
are we talking about 'widening'.........
 
or stacking?
 

Both..the more original vocal tracks you have, the easier it is to get them spread out wider. Did a song ('Anchor Up Captain', see link in sig) recently where Tim (the singer) did 18 parts for the backing vocals, once we got going it didn't really take that long. Spread 'em out and used varying reverb busses, sounded good.

Jesse Screed
Hello, I would have to agree with all the advice so far.  However, I am reminded of a post by that "Lord Tim" gentleman when he was helping Sir Beepster sort out some issues. 
 
He said, "sometimes you have to do it the slow and tedious way."  And then he mentioned that sometimes he does 150 plus vocal tracks.
 
I believe that the truth of the matter lies somewhere in the middle; the judicious use of software and the layering of different takes one on top of the other.
 
I hope you can find your sound.
 
Jesse

I'm beginning to realize that this is true.   
 
Thanks!
Greg

gswitz
There are so many tricks...
 
1. Double Mic using different mics and panned slightly differently. This also gives the performer some control because they can twist their head to get a cool stereo effect.
2. Track it repeatedly. Nothing like real singers singing along. This can be tightened with vocal sync.
3. Dup the track and offset in time/pitch/eq or any other way. Differing delays maybe. I find this to be a long run for a short slide.
4. Get weird. Reverse the vocal track and apply delay then Reverse it again. Now you have pre-delay. haha fun!!
 
Often backup vocals get longer reverb tails than lead vocals.
 
This one was tracked with two vocal mics...
http://stabilitynetwork.blob.core.windows.net/g-tunes/20150723_Tony_21_BeautifulLoser.mp3
 
 

Lots of good suggestions.  
 
Thanks!
Greg

Bzyk
Toneboosters used to have a free plugin called TB OmniSone (32-bit). They don't support it anymore but there are places like this where you can still download it from:
 
It's my favourite plugin to make mono tracks wide for free.
 
I'm not allowed to post links but the website was 'don't crack'

I found it. 
 
Thanks!
Greg

greg54
Are you talking about singing the same vocal part twice rather than just cloning?
 
Thanks!
Greg

Yeah. Just cloning a vocal will make it louder, and then using a few tricks like different EQ and time shifting on the clones *can* give you a bit of a thick / wide effect, but nothing like actually performing the part itself again.

Typically I do this:

I sing each part of the harmony 3 times, and give them a basic tune with Melodyne (or whatever you prefer to use) just to lock them in. Pan each take of that harmony part left, right and centre - how much depends on you. Normally I keep the loudest harmony part more centered and widen the others further depending on how loud they are.

If you want it to sound massive, do another 4 or 5 layers of each part and don't do any tuning, and leave them quieter than the original harmony parts.

If things start to get lost, do a single voice of each harmony and mix them in just a tad louder so you have a bit of focus to the choirs. I'd tend to tune those a bit.

And a good trick is to do a whisper track, where you do a few layers of whispering the lyrics and mix that underneath everything else. That'll give you a great sheen and size to the choirs.

Compress each vocal part, be prepared to de-ess them too since sibilance will build up fast. Then send them to a buss or aux track and compress again.

This will sound HUGE! Of course, back off where you need to do to get the size you want, and using different vocalists with different sounding voices will really add a lot of great texture to the choirs.

But yeah, this should get you on the right path. It's tedious and annoying but it seriously works!

yea, but those guys are talking about stacking (adding) tracks, not widening.
 
two completely different goals/end results.

batsbrew
yea, but those guys are talking about stacking (adding) tracks, not widening.
 
two completely different goals/end results.

Here's a video of a guy who did both.    The bg vocals are L-R-C.   But then he added a stereo chorus to widen the vocals, which is what i want.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ifTcpPiqtY
 
But when he adds chorus, it sounds good.   Mine sounds phasey and unnatural.  
 
Greg 

greg54

batsbrew
yea, but those guys are talking about stacking (adding) tracks, not widening.
 
two completely different goals/end results.

Here's a video of a guy who did both.    The bg vocals are L-R-C.   But then he added a stereo chorus to widen the vocals, which is what i want.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ifTcpPiqtY
 
But when he adds chorus, it sounds good.   Mine sounds phasey and unnatural.  
 
Greg 

greg,
you know you can add automation to your effects, right?
 
why not add an envelope, and bring up the chorus effect when it needs to be obvious, and fade it out when you don't want it?
 

We should clarify that stereo wideners do not work on mono sources.  There are effects that can create a stereo effect from a mono signal.  Waves has one, PS22, Bob Katz made one, and Brainworks has one that I like to use on occasion when I cannot mic an instrument in stereo.  
 
Other than that, a short room or reverb send can create the openness lost in a dry mono mic recording.