Will Cakewalk change the no sales of Sonar policy?

If so, I'll have copies of PA7, PA8, PA9, SONAR XL, SONAR 3,4,5,6,7,8 for sale. (Somehow I skipped SONAR 2 yet my son has it... go figure)

I thought that was already the case throughout the EU anyway? 

Mystic38

bapu


If so, I'll have copies of PA7, PA8, PA9, SONAR XL, SONAR 3,4,5,6,7,8 for sale. (Somehow I skipped SONAR 2 yet my son has it... go figure)

You quite likely dont have those available to sell, that is, unless they were all full paid versions..
 
My copy of x1 is an upgrade, not a license, just like my last several versions, so while i may have boxes of working cakes around, i actually only have one real license that could be transferred...but then i couldnt use X1 :)

OK, you are elected 'Official Joke Spoiler'.

You quite likely dont have those available to sell, that is, unless they were all full paid versions..

All versions of Sonar are full versions. There is no such thing as an upgrade version. 

Reselling is for the lawyers to work out - since most people have upgraded.  Most likely there would be a fee to upgrade your X1 "upate" to a stand alone X1 version if you sold your older versions of SONAR.  But I ain't a lawyer.  I do know you seldom get something for free.

@

Sometimes written law, has nuances that only trained professionals understand.  That's why we've got lawyers.  I'm not interpreting this law at all, cause its got nuances that those of us who are not lawyers are not seeing.  Of that I am sure...

Like..  "license with out an end, or the forever license."  Certainly makes no mention of cloud software, and subscriptions.  certainly does not mention whether countries without offices in the country would be exempt..  Oracle for sure, has a German office.  Cakewalk?  Think not.

What is really odd, is that software is a constantly, "living and updated," product...   Your vacuum cleaner is not.  Your shower curtain is not.   Software has long term value, that most products that are sold used do not. 

When you sell a used car.  Its lost value.  When you sell a used software, its probably going to get updated, otherwise the person buying it, isn't too bright.   to be buying dead-ware.. you know...

The law basically can not pass in America.  Unless we are really getting off our path.  Basically this is government saying to private business, "anybody can sell the products you create."

Do you how much money I'd make, if I could just legally stand out on the street corner pushing viagra?  I live in, "old-peopleville."


And with that, I'm going to drop it, cause I think its almost a borderline political thread.   and against the tos of the forum

I believe that Cakewalk would benefit from allowing their products to be resold.  They could even profit from such sales by offering an online licence transfer facility and making it chargeable.  IK Multimedia does this.  Even without charging they would still gain a new registered user who might potentially upgrade or purchase further CW products.  I sold my copy of Reason 4 because I hardly ever used it.  Hopefully its current owner is making much better use of it than I did.

Kalle Rantaaho

Jonbouy:
"So basically if you are selling under this new judgement you have to provide everything that your current license depends on....your previous upgrades back to your initial purchase.  You also have to remove all traces of them from you system along with any local backups.  Failing that YOU are breaking the law after the re-sale. "
If I've understood correctly, this is the way it's been in Germany for ages.

Yes, if you read the actual judgement that is how it is put.  Anything that the current license depends on has to be included in the sale and any software that you keep is in contravention of the right to 'duplicate' which isn't granted in this judgement.

Indeed Germany has cleared the path for this now Europe wide ruling being as 'Oracle' brought this case against a German firm wanting to resell licences.  It was their application to get this firm to cease the practice that brought about this judgement.

It was deemed that it wasn't necessary to prevent the protection of the intellectual rights not to allow legitimate licenses to be resold.  Duplication is another matter as it is clearly piracy and the rights owner still has exclusive right to make the first sale which is then exhausted after that, now allowing any legitimate owner of a licence to resell in the EU, providing he sells everything that the original licence granted him in order to be able to use it.

I'm not a lawyer so this is a lay interpretation but I think I'm understanding it right.  So yes it has been the case in Germany more recently, now the rest of the EU will likely have to fall in line and follow the German lead.

Jonbouy

Linear Phase



The law basically can not pass in America.  Unless we are really getting off our path.  Basically this is government saying to private business, "anybody can sell the products you create."

So you as individuals prefer to be dictated to by business that tells you that you can't sell something you bought?

You are OK with that but not a law that prevents it?

Sorry no.  I'd rather do business with the companies I want to do business with.  If I don't like their policy, than I don't have to buy their products.  If I bought the product without being aware of what the, "warranty and limitations were," than that is my fault.


I don't celebrate every time a law is passed.  In America we have something called precedent.  Laws are a chain reaction.  You could have congress pass a law like this, and you have no idea what the impact will be, until years later when they pass a law that really infringes on freedom somehow, and cites the precedent.


It is a political thread for me.  I can't really explain my thoughts without really breaking the TOS.  And I quite like my Cakewalk music stuff.  I'm dropping it.


Peace

It's not politics btw it's legality

grumbleweed4162

daveny5

All versions of Sonar are full versions. There is no such thing as an upgrade version. 

There is such a thing as an upgrade price. Nobody in their right mind would go out and buy each new version of Sonar at full price so, having already purchased an earlier version, you buy a "cheap" upgrade to the new version.
This ties your older versions to the latest one (or the latest one to the earlier ones) so, if Cakewalk followed in Propellerhead's footsteps, selling one version means you sell them all as they are all tied into the original licence that gave you the right to use the software.  
Grum.

Mayb. Maybe not.

bapu


Being that I'm a dimbulb; my X1 is installed without any portion of the eleventy previous versions I paid for. Like LP said, I'm no lawyer, but it seems a case, at least, could be made (in a theoretical courtroom) that my upgrade fee from 8.5.3 to X1 was loyalty discount and not a cumulative license. I only needed to provide proof of 8.5.3 ownership, not 7, 6, 5 et. al.

So, from now on, I no longer have to show proof of 8.5.3 or the eleventy other versions to get anything beyond X1 at a loyalty discount.

Of course this case would be lost because I did not read the whole judgement (I can't be arsed to do so).

Again, maybe it's just a loyalty discount. It's certainly not a maintenance fee. And does the EULA from Cakewalk actually say "all previous versions are considered part of this version" (or legalese to that effect)?  

bapu


Again, maybe it's just a loyalty discount. It's certainly not a maintenance fee. And does the EULA from Cakewalk actually say "all previous versions are considered part of this version" (or legalese to that effect)?  

But reading the EULA would involve reading - who has time for that?
Anyhoo, the original EULA would say that "you ain't selling nuthin' (boy)" so it's a mute point.
 
Grum. 

So Grum, I'll mark you as a maybe?

The only good thing to come out of the EULA was that goal line technology will soon be introduced. 

FastBikerBoy


The only good thing to come out of the EULA was that goal line technology will soon be introduced. 

Close, but no banana.
 
Grum.

+1
 
this is it exactly..once you eliminate your licenses from cakewalk after selling the old software for $5 you lose the right to an upgrade, and also lose your right to use the X1 you have now....
 
this is just not a good direction to go in.. the costs of managing this will be passed to us the customer....so anticipate a future of either ilok or expect to be connected to the internet for license validation simply to start software?.. just to make what? 10c on the $ from 8.5.3?.. shudder....

 
grumbleweed4162

daveny5

All versions of Sonar are full versions. There is no such thing as an upgrade version. 

There is such a thing as an upgrade price. Nobody in their right mind would go out and buy each new version of Sonar at full price so, having already purchased an earlier version, you buy a "cheap" upgrade to the new version.
This ties your older versions to the latest one (or the latest one to the earlier ones) so, if Cakewalk followed in Propellerhead's footsteps, selling one version means you sell them all as they are all tied into the original licence that gave you the right to use the software.  
Grum.