dreamist
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Will Matrix View ever get some love?
I think quite a number of Sonar users might have come from an Ableton Live background. Seeing Matrix View in Sonar gives me some hope to use it in music composition and experiments. However, I think there are at least two or three major things that are missing, and I wonder if Cakewalk has any plan to add them in a near future.
1. Direct recording into cells.
2. Clip editing in cells. Even being able to set start and end points would already be really helpful.
3. Audio warping. Perhaps just time stretching first, then when chance permitted, pitch transposing.
Working in Ableton Live gives me a different perspective when creating music. I would love to see it in Sonar. Even just one of these is implemented, I will be really grateful!
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dubdisciple
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 02:17:59
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Wouldn't it be bizarre if the matrix zealots became as vocal as the staff view zealots?
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dreamist
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 02:51:30
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Probably. Then again, Matrix View is a relatively recent addition. And quite a bit were promised about further improvements in the future. I don't think we want another Ableton Live, but in my experience with Live, it can really be used as a creative tool in music composition, and that, to me, is an invaluable asset.
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mettelus
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 03:49:21
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I have only dabbled with Live Lite, and felt I was locked into a matrix and didn't have the patience to learn much more beyond what I was seeing when it popped open. The Matrix View in SONAR can be used effectively, but also depends on application. Sometimes it has more overhead than usefulness.
As far as 1&2 on the OP, I have simply taken advantage of the drag & drop functionality in SONAR and freely move clips to the cells and vice versa. This does not add much time at all to the workflow. An interesting upside to this is that the cells function as "convenient storage" in a 2D array, so can flesh out a clip while keeping earlier versions easily accessible (more visually compact as well). So from that standpoint I like that the cells are not "editable" unto themselves so I do no inadvertently alter one.
#3 is a bit harder to achieve, and I assume you are referring to a more "real time" scenario during playback?
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Andrew Rossa
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 12:08:40
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We are always looking at areas we can improve on. Thanks for the feedback.
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sharke
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 12:31:52
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I never thought of using the Matrix as a storage medium for old clip versions, that's a great idea.
While trying this out just now however, I did run into a problem which showed itself a couple of times but which I cannot reproduce. This project has a tempo change - it doubles at one point. With playback stopped, I tried playing a clip in the matrix that was from the slower tempo. It played at double tempo, even though the now time marker was within the slower tempo. After stopping and starting the clip a few times, it played at the correct tempo. I could not get it to repeat the behavior, although it did make me think that perhaps the Matrix has the occasional issue in projects with tempo changes.
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yummay
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 12:45:17
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I've used Project 5 during a short period. The Matrix view is somewhat a stripped-down version of P5...
+ 1 on:
1- Direct recording into cells (MIDI and AUDIO please?) ... to keep the momentum going when creating a song that uses both "third-party" loops as well as ideas just created on the fly...
2- Editing in cells : Project 5 was good enough at that as well... (manipulating them little at least) ...never really understood why this kind of functionnality never found its way back into the Sonar X series since P5 was dropped...
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lawp
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 12:57:44
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☄ Helpfulby wetdentist 2013/11/21 14:55:45
just release a multi core x64 version of p5 and be done with it. ;-)
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Splat 
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 13:17:15
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dubdisciple
Wouldn't it be bizarre if the matrix zealots became as vocal as the staff view zealots?
You missed out the video zealots which cake has commited to improve with x3d. Personally I think this is an odd decision. I think enhancements should be left till x4. More concerned with bug fixes, performance updates and fixing any stupidness within the UI (ie Cakewalk cleans out their bug tracker and closes off all the issues). But that's just opinion.
post edited by CakeAlexS - 2013/11/21 13:27:18
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wetdentist
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 14:56:11
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lawp
just release a multi core x64 version of p5 and be done with it. ;-)
oh man what a dream that would be
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dubdisciple
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 15:18:51
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CakeAlexS
dubdisciple
Wouldn't it be bizarre if the matrix zealots became as vocal as the staff view zealots?
You missed out the video zealots which cake has commited to improve with x3d. Personally I think this is an odd decision. I think enhancements should be left till x4. More concerned with bug fixes, performance updates and fixing any stupidness within the UI (ie Cakewalk cleans out their bug tracker and closes off all the issues). But that's just opinion.
As a video professional, I welcome improvements, but I have an opinion on this that somewhat agrees with yours and differs too. I can't imagine the bug tracker ever being 100% empty so if they wait for that, it will never happen. On the other hand, tha twould not bother me a great deal. Video improvements are nice, but I can honestly say that I will be unlikely to ever import full rez video files into Sonar. That one file is likely to use more resources than every audio file in my project combined. Perhaps some card memore optimazation like using Cuda will help but right now, it's more of a curiosity for me than need.
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pbognar
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 18:31:00
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dubdisciple
Wouldn't it be bizarre if the matrix zealots became as vocal as the staff view zealots?
Hey, I resemble that remark! I prefer enthusiast over zealot.
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Splat
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 18:43:30
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 .... Our *three* weapons are notation, video, and ruthless efficiency with the matrix, and take lanes... no that's four... start again.... Oh sod it off to the comfy chair with you...
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Mystic38
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 19:51:12
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I think the biggest improvement for matrix view would be to figure out how to have launchpad (or similar) work fully with it.. until there is a solid controller environment its just never going to make any headway imo
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mumpcake
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2013/11/21 22:29:46
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wetdentist
lawp
just release a multi core x64 version of p5 and be done with it. ;-)
oh man what a dream that would be
+1. Even cooler if you release it before Bitwig.
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Defely
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2014/06/24 23:18:12
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Mystic38
I think the biggest improvement for matrix view would be to figure out how to have launchpad (or similar) work fully with it.. until there is a solid controller environment its just never going to make any headway imo
+1, you know ableton live and in FL studio performance mode, launchpad is officially supported, I only tried FL and FL is far more creative than matrix because it can load any FX automation as a clip.so, basically you can trigger any automation of effects by just pushing a pad in FL. honestly, I can't any effective/creative ways to use Matrix yet. So I seriously hope that the next version of sonar has more improvements like... ・official launchpad (or major pads) support ・automation as a clip
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Anderton
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2014/06/25 12:06:52
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As it stands now, I find Matrix view useful even without the suggested enhancements. But if I need to go further, Ableton Live can rewire into Sonar.
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mmorgan
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2014/06/25 12:31:25
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Anderton
As it stands now, I find Matrix view useful even without the suggested enhancements. But if I need to go further, Ableton Live can rewire into Sonar.
I'm with Craig on this, however having dealt with Live for a while now it has pretty much replaced Matrix View. I say +1 to the users who would like to see MV improved though...or replaced with a multi-core, 64 bit, P5 replacement.  Regards
Mike Win8(64), Sonar X3e(64) w/ RME Fireface UFX.
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2014/06/25 18:32:54
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it is too bad that P 5 never caught on with many of the SONAR users.. People that actually know how to use P 5 will tell you that The Matrix view in P 5 is so much more versatile than the Matrix View in SONAR …as far as I'm concerned there is absolutely no contest  everything is all right there in plain sight if you want it to be because the menu to the left in P 5 is track specific and it dictates the users preferences to the individual row of cells . the way it handles audio , synth / instruments , device chains , routing , per track effects, inputs , outputs , sends , midi effects , arps……are very simple and versatile .. I feel the lack of these options makes the SONAR Matrix View / Workflow seem like a major step backwards …. I wish there was some way that Cakewalk could incorporate and restore some of the missing "P 5 style work flow per track / cell features " and port them into the X 3 Matrix View …for the 64 bit SONAR users …. Kenny
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2014/06/25 19:02:39
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Splat
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2014/06/25 21:20:06
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Anderton
As it stands now, I find Matrix view useful even without the suggested enhancements. But if I need to go further, Ableton Live can rewire into Sonar.
+1
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kennywtelejazz
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Re: Will Matrix View ever get some love?
2014/06/25 22:16:07
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P 5 was the $hit …. ….regarding A….Live no +1 from me ….  Cakewalk dropped the ball when they stopped developing P 5 Duh Nile ain't only a river in Egypt , it's a state of mind …so suck it up …..and cop too it Kenny PS: I would much prefer P 5 at 64 bit , able to rewire into X3 and have all the luscious plugs that came with X3 PE unlocked and usable in P 5 ... I might even be willing to pay close to Abelton Live prices for that
post edited by kennywtelejazz - 2014/06/25 22:39:58
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