Will we ever see a notation plug in?

Imagine.  Working on a project you know will need a score kicked out and parts.  You use your DAW because the 2 big notators have useless MIDI engines.  So instead of exporting a MIDI 01 file and put it into a notator program, you just go to your plug in list and insert a notation front end.  Last time sequencing software had a decent notator was Logic 5, just before Apple came in heavy.  And go back to Notator / Atari and really put out the written page
 
So, either Finale or Sybilus will take the challenge and make a plug in that integrates with DAW's and they will win the war on that front.

mudgel


I've yet to try using jBridge to allow 64 bit plugins on a 32 bit host.

I've yet to try using jBridge to allow 64 bit plugins on a 32 bit host.

Mike, does jBridge do this? It's normally used to run 32-bit plugs on x64 as I'm sure you're aware. Interesting idea though.
 

Pro Tools has this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf9JDgyGwY8

another no-brainer imho.
a great score generator/editor is old technology.  also, standard notation doesnt change- ever!
therefore, once a kick-ass one has been developed in Sonar, it will require very little tweaking/updating over time.

question:
what is the advantage to exporting xml over midi to import into sibelius?

mudgel
All Cakewalk woulld need to do is allow the current score to be exported as an xml file which could then easily be imported into a top end score program for further editing.

Sonar already does this.  It's not a solution for notation as a composing tool.  (And it really doesn't work well.)
 
corrected typo

Old Post Alert!

It takes some fiddling, but it is possible to export the MIDI files from Sonar and import them to Sibelius. I just generally bite the bullet and go the other way (i.e. compose in Sibelius and then import into Cakewalk and voice). Last time I did this was with X1 and Sibelius 6. I'm considering upgrading to Sibelius 7 for an upcoming project, as they have a much better playback engine now...I previewed at a buddy's setup. For big band or orchestra, it's remarkably good....the playback captures notation, dynamics, etc...I would love to have a capability that seamlessly combines the best of Sonar (input and editing) with the  best of Sibelius (publication-ready scores and now, exceptional instrumentation). I'm not willing to go back to Pro Tools to get it, though. I was unaware that Avid had acquired Sibelius. 

 I think a plugin would have been done by now. It must be one of those "easier said than done" projects. The closest thing so far is using Rewire I guess. 

In the staff view on the print menu.

i use sibelius 7 as well as cubase and sonar for different types of scoring.  many times i'll rewire sibelius 7 into either of the latter, though the tempo map situation is a pita...
what i'm waiting for is this...  http://blog.steinberg.net/2013/11/development-diary-part-four/#more-387

Notion 4 is 64 bit, is it not? I've been using Notion since Cake had the sale on Notion 3. I never could get it to work on my 64 bit rigs. It would completely crashed the computer out. Notion 4 came along and I am a happy camper for my uses anyway. It works in ReWire with X3 as well. BTW, I had to purchase the upgrade to Notion 4 but it was well worth it.

I haven't needed to go from Sonar to Finale in a while, so I thought I'd play with it last night before piping in...
 
So I tried it last night, and it works quite well. I am using Sonar X3c and Finale 2010 (soon to upgrade to 2014).
 
There are a couple things that MusicXML does not handle well, and you have to be aware of them. The one that always gets me is time signature changes. If you insert multiple time signature changes they may be ignored. I know that this has been discussed on various MusicXML forums, but it has not yet been resolved.
 
So what is the big deal? Why doesn't Sonar just do something about all this?
 
1) the number of Sonar users that read/write notation is small, the number that use it is even smaller. This applies to musicians in general, but I point out the Sonar connection just to be thorough<G>
 
2) MIDI and notation are not equal... not even close really. Standard notation is a means of conveying a musical idea to a musician. MIDI is a way of recording and playing a musical performance. They are not the same!
 
I have played around with conversion between MIDI and notation - both directions - since the days of Dr. T's Copyist and KCS. I have a pretty good idea - I think - of what is needed, but I'm not sure that the cure is any better than the symptoms... and I do not have the chops to implement it anyway (I do have a PERL prototype somewhere, but it was ugly!)
 
What is needed is a rule set that is user manageable. There needs to be a way to define the beats - there are way more ticks in a measure than beats, so you have to be able to say that a note is a quarter note if it starts in this range of ticks, and lasts for this range of ticks. Yes - it seems like the current crop of quantizing tools ought to do the trick, and in fact if you are willing to work hard enough you can get some great results that way, but it is slow. Slower, I think, than cleaning up the score in Finale.
 
And of course the rule set has to go both ways. I think that's the intent of Human Playback in Finale, and in some limited number of cases it can work well, but the number of cases is pretty small yet.
 
My solution, for now, is to try to make only one conversion in each direction.
 
If I start in Finale then I can either export to MIDI and import into Sonar (which works quite well, except for that overly quantized bit) - or I can print out the parts and play them in. This later approach sounds better by far, but my keyboard skills are not always up to the task. In either case, I can then tweak to my heart's content in Sonar until I end up with a PERFORMANCE that sounds great. At which point I may, or may not, need to export to XML and re-import back into Finale. Sometimes, (not often) the changes I made in Sonar are so insignificant that I can skip this step. Wish it happened more often!!!
 
If I start in Sonar then I only need that Sonar to Finale step... but I am still so much more comfortable thinking in standard notation that I usually start in Finale.
 
I would love it if Staff view was on a par with Finale, even if only for note entry. But I don't think that's a particularly good use of resources, so I continue with my work flow and usually I do not grumble all that much<G>!

love that joke!!! (not that it's true or anything...)
 
I've tried Sibelius numerous times, but not in the last 3-4 years I think. And I haven't upgraded Finale since 2010 either... they just hadn't offered any new features that I felt I needed. They almost got me with linked parts, and I am seriously considering the upgrade to 2014, but for now 2010 still does what I need it to do.
 
I think they are both complex, but in different ways, and since I've been using Finale since the mid 1990's I'm accustomed to their version of complexity I guess. But your note has prompted me to wander off to their web site next to see if they have a demo...

admagination
Imagine.  Working on a project you know will need a score kicked out and parts.  You use your DAW because the 2 big notators have useless MIDI engines.  So instead of exporting a MIDI 01 file and put it into a notator program, you just go to your plug in list and insert a notation front end.  Last time sequencing software had a decent notator was Logic 5, just before Apple came in heavy.  And go back to Notator / Atari and really put out the written page
 
So, either Finale or Sybilus will take the challenge and make a plug in that integrates with DAW's and they will win the war on that front.

What makes you think a plugin would be any better than what Sonar already offers?

John

What makes you think a plugin would be any better than what Sonar already offers?

If it wasn't there would be no point int doing it but a plugin might be easier to develop since it would not require diving into Sonar code..