Helpful ReplyWin7 or Win8.1?

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Jacob1701
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/16 21:01:42 (permalink)
For those who really need the start button back on 8, 8.1, there is a great little program called start8 from stardock for $5.
Puts a start button just like windows 7.
 

#91
Living Room Rocker
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/18 10:50:28 (permalink)
Hi, Jacob.  Welcome to the CW forums.  As previously mentioned, Classic Shell is free and has a large variety of options for modding Windows 8 to look and feel like previous version like Windows 7 and XP as well as additional functionality.  It is pretty cool and I have never had a problem with it.  The website is http://www.classicshell.net/  and although it is a free program, they do accept donations.
 
Kind regards,
 
Living Room Rocker

Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
#92
Jacob1701
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/18 10:53:38 (permalink)
well there goes 5 bucks...haha
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johnnyV
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/18 11:08:45 (permalink)
Thanks for the link LRR. I will give it a go myself,
My issue with Windows 8.1 is I see no way to turn off the way the scroll bars fade away to invisible??   Why on earth did they do that? You have to go pecking around with the mouse to find the scroll bar at the bottom of Track view as example :(  
I wasted  time looking first in Sonars menu but then noticed it was global to all software. I then wasted another 20 minutes digging in all corners of 8.1 for some sort of option. I even loaded a few different themes.  Funny thing is, searching the net for a solution,  seems nobody has complained about this. Scroll bars are pretty important for moving around in almost all software, why make them disappear?  So I will try this Classic Shell. 

Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional
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#94
arachnaut
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/18 12:48:39 (permalink)
Maybe look here for those visual effects:
 


- Jim Hurley -
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#95
Living Room Rocker
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/18 13:36:15 (permalink)
johnnyV
Thanks for the link LRR. I will give it a go myself,
My issue with Windows 8.1 is I see no way to turn off the way the scroll bars fade away to invisible??   Why on earth did they do that? You have to go pecking around with the mouse to find the scroll bar at the bottom of Track view as example :(  
I wasted  time looking first in Sonars menu but then noticed it was global to all software. I then wasted another 20 minutes digging in all corners of 8.1 for some sort of option. I even loaded a few different themes.  Funny thing is, searching the net for a solution,  seems nobody has complained about this. Scroll bars are pretty important for moving around in almost all software, why make them disappear?  So I will try this Classic Shell. 


Hey, Johnny.  You are not alone on that one.  I was getting frustrated with the "hard to find" scroll bar, but thought that it was something I altered myself.  (I do things like that to clean of the look of things.)  Now that you mentioned it, I realize that was not the case.  I guess we can change the Windows theme, but it's not pretty.  I'll peck around for a better way.
 
Thanks, Jim.  I checked out the Performance settings, but there is nothing to change the scroll bars.  Bummer.
 
Kind regards,
 
Living Room Rocker

Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
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denverdrummer
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/18 14:46:55 (permalink)
I have a feeling a lot of people will be switching to Windows 10 next year.  I've played with the preview version on a virtual machine on my desktop, and it's got all of the good things about Windows 8.1 combined with the familiar start button.  Plus they add virtual desktops which is something Linux/UNIX/Mac users have had for some time now.
 
I will wait for the final release before upgrading, but I'm definitely looking forward to Windows 10, and I think it will be as popular as Windows 7 and XP were

Win 10 Pro 64 bit, Dell Inspiron 15, core i7, 16GB RAM, Focusrite Scarlett 18i20, Mackie MR5 Mark 1 speakers
#97
Living Room Rocker
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/18 18:06:44 (permalink)
denverdrummer
...  Plus they add virtual desktops which is something Linux/UNIX/Mac users have had for some time now...

I am certainly going to upgrade to 10 after the dust settles.  I've been waiting for multiple desktops since 3.1...while I was in my crib.
 
Kind regards,
 
Living Room Rocker

Kind regards, Living Room Rocker
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YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/20 20:48:31 (permalink)
8+ has better multi-core management. Hence it is faster.
 
Boot faster: not an issue. Booting speed is not indicative of running performance. Once windows is booted it does little OS access, other than managing the pagefile, which should ALWAYS be set to system managed.
 
I have configured dozens of w8+ computers for clients, and family members. Rarely are the START-WALLs seen by anyone, other than during initial logon to click the DESKTOP tile.
 
Once installed:
install adobe reader and select it to be the default for PDF files
   and then disable the auto update service
select the windows media player as default
select the windows image util as the default
 
And then: disable ALL live tiles.
 
set windows updates to never check. Only manual: install hardware updates separately.
 
Review the scheduled tasks to disable ALL user experience stuff, and auto utils such as defrag,...
 
After installing drivers make sure NONE of them auto-check for updates: such as AMD CCC,...
 
And: disable ALL AMD services and startup options, if using any AMD bits.
 
And then: check ALL the services and startup options.
 
Use MSCONFIG, click the HIDE ALL MS services, to show other items.
 
Disable most of them:  Only one I have enabled it Logitech blue-toot service.
  Google, NI hardware,...  are all disabled.
 
MS services: Disable MS media player sharing service (what is the point of this?)
 
Taskbar: set to NEVER combine, and to SHOW ALL for the notification area.
 
Do NOT select to boot directly to the desktop. Any settings, such as removing the idiotic shadow for icons and fonts on the desktop, will not be honored.
 
Learn how to add shortcuts to the taskbar, and the desktop. Then create folders on the desktop for all the various tools: audio tools, audio programs, windows tools,....
 
Have ONLY the most often used shortcuts on the desktop.
 
NEVER NEVER NEVER  save ANY programs, or files, to the desktop.   
 
The desktop should be clean and quick. (I have clients who save EVERYTHING to the desktop and now cannot find anything.)
 
The desktop is not always included in backup software default settings. 
 
Learn all the w8 desktop screen mouse positions and quick clicks.
 
 
#99
jackson white
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/20 23:08:48 (permalink)
+1 for the configuration as documented by "YouDontHasToCallMe". I've done most of the same, through a bit of trial an error of course, but have not even thought about the O/S since doing so. Win10 sounds like it will be easier to use for Win7 and < users, but I'm pretty happy with what I have. 

--------------------
Some pieces of wood with wires and bits of metal stuck in them, silicon and plastic
johnnyV
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/20 23:15:15 (permalink)
Good post You don't have to call me ? 
Those are all the tricks I try and do too. 
Of course that would all be for an off line DAW, for my office computer I don't worry about the same things. But I still nuke anything that is automatically trying to phone home. I pay for bandwith @ $10 per Gig,, so I need to be in control. 
 
Oh and I just happened to notice that this thread for some unknown reason is still in the Sonar forum. My question about windows  got moved pronto to computers...? 

Sonar X3e Studio - Waiting for Professional
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Splat
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/20 23:34:38 (permalink)
You mean software forums. Well looking at the OP the thread is really about Sonar and windows.

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@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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kitekrazy1
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/22 13:04:15 (permalink)
That verdict isn't out yet but W8 users may get W10 free or at a reduced price. That is an MS apology for releasing an unpopular OS.  It seems like this happens every other OS release.
arachnaut
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/22 14:08:37 (permalink)
I have a few differences of opinion with some of these recommendations:
 
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
... the pagefile, which should ALWAYS be set to system managed.
 

 
I always move the pagefile to a separate drive and manually fix it's min and max size so it never changes or moves around. You may get a warning about crash dumps not being save-able - ignore that. If you have a lot of memory (as you should for audio processing), swapping rarely is an issue, and it doesn't matter much what your pagefile setting is. You may even wish to disable it, but I would not recommend that.
 
You can also make a junction  (shortcut) moving the swapfile.sys to another drive. It's only used by the Start Screen apps, I believe.
 
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
Review the scheduled tasks to disable ALL user experience stuff, and auto utils such as defrag,...

 
I would never disable defragmentation. Windows builds a layout file for frequently used programs and will move them to the front of a rotating drive for faster access. If you have a solid state drive, it doesn't matter. This could take a few weeks to optimize and it will be constantly changing afterwards - especially after a massive update like the last one for 8.1 (Update 3).
 
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
  Google, NI hardware,...  are all disabled.

 
The NI Hardware Service is needed if you have NI Hardware connected. Otherwise feel free to disable it.
 
I usually look at the Black Viper web site for recommendation on which services to disable:
http://www.blackviper.com/
 
If you have a lot of memory and these services do not run constantly then they only load some memory-resident handlers so it's not a big deal. Disabling some may cause nuisancy problems.
 
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
Do NOT select to boot directly to the desktop. Any settings, such as removing the idiotic shadow for icons and fonts on the desktop, will not be honored.
 
 
 
I would always boot to the Desktop. I use the drop shadows, but these settings should be honored if they are set in the performance settings. I have never read about problems with these settings.
 
Some say that Windows 8 boots faster. One would need to define what is meant by boot time.
 
The way I see it is like this:
 
Start up the Resource Monitor when the system boots and watch the system activity on network interfaces, disk I/O, memory page faults, and CPU activity.
 
Notice that things come in waves: system DLLs load, System services start up at various times, Network activity starts for some things (if you have network access), and so on...
 
When all the performances graphs reach a stable idle state, I'd say boot up is finished.
 
This could take several minutes.
 
I don't define startup as when the Desktop appears or when one comes out of hibernation, etc. It has to be from a cold start to be meaningful.
 

- Jim Hurley -
SONAR Platinum - x64  - Windows 10 Pro 
ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0;  Core i7-2600K@4.4GHz; 16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X;
GeForce GT 740; Saffire Pro14 MixControl 3.7; Axiom 61
64-Bit audio, SR: 48kHz, ASIO 256 samples latency, Rec/Play I/O Buffers 512k, Total Round Trip Latency 13 ms, Pow-r 3 dither 
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/22 15:50:35 (permalink)
Changing the toolbar setting to boot directly to the desktop does not honor the setting to not show the drop shadows.  I boot to the START WALL and then click the desktop icon.
 
No need to move the page file from the OS disk as that is about the only thing the OS accesses on the disk after all programs are loaded. But if you do so, add a small pagefile to the OS so all the errors can be recorded.
 
Many years ago RME did a bunch of tests and came to the conclusion that letting windows have control of the swap/page file was best. Setting size limits actually interfered.
 
And, no matter how much RAM ya gots windows will remove from memory a bunch of stuff that is not being used, if a swap/page file exists.
 
I find almost all computers take at least 10 minutes to fully boot. Especially if any programs are set to auto update.  Windows does all its stuff including placing pages in the swap files, checking licenses, checking com programs, creating a quick system restore point, security audits,...  Look at the Event Viewer logs to know what is happening and how long it actually takes to completely boot.
 
This morning my computer posted event items from 9:22 to 9:33. And I have every auto-update program disabled that I know of and can disable.
 
The event viewer does not list all the stuff the computer is doing.
 
This does not mean a user cannot start programs,... once the START WALL/ Desktop appears.  But by letting the computer finish its bits and pieces it will respond quicker to opening Sonar,...
 
Auto Defrag:  Initially I had not disabled this (and other early morning items) as I am rarely using the computer, nor is it on, at 1am.  And I know many of the MS auto items will run in the morning, when I am usually not using audio programs, just writing,...
 
But once upon a way late night, I got whopped by this one during a mixing session. The computer became slow. I checked the processes and found the Defragger was defraggering.
Now all the stuff not related to the computer working is disabled.
 
I use Auslogics defrag to also optimize the files with the OS files placed at the beginning of the disk.
arachnaut
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/22 16:51:29 (permalink)
I don't know who or what RME is, but several years ago is quite a while back if you want to report about test results, especially as Windows 8 wasn't around then. Probably, though, little was changed in page file handling. There is a new swapfile.sys, but as I said, it seems to be only used by the Immersive Shell (Start Screen).
 
At any rate, I completely agree about Windows swapping out stuff from your memory pool - that's exactly why I fix it's size. If you let windows fix the size, it's possible that things may get fragmented if it grows and shrinks.
 
I thought you meant to do no defragmentation.
 
I use Perfect Disk by Raxco as my defragger and I schedule it according to my whims.
 
One's decisions about these tweaks is also determined by the usage for the machine. My machine is the only one I have - so it is browser, mailer, etc., as well as audio tool. So my advice is for the general user, not the dedicated audio business.
 
Still, when all is said and done, Windows does a pretty fair job of managing it's resources - and without good reason and some amount of investigation and experimentation - it's probably best to leave it alone.
 
EDIT:
My approach is to have a bunch of fast drives each of which is partitioned into two areas. The top is small, the bottom is bulky.
In these top partitions I put stuff like system files, page files, temp folders, internet caches, etc.
I use junctions to map the file pointers from the system area to the proper drive.
 
If I had solid state drives I wouldn't do that, but for me, the slowest thing on my system is a hard drive seek. 
 
I move all user stuff out of the system drive so that I can do fast and frequent system backups. I do not enable restore points.
If a backup or restore can be done in ten minutes - that's faster than troubleshooting a bad install or new problem.
 
I use drive letters A, B, C, ..., L, R and S. I think drive letters are the most ridiculous thing about Windows. 
 
 
 
EDIT 2:
 
RME - sorry, I thought this was about software, not audio.
 
post edited by arachnaut - 2014/11/23 16:05:04

- Jim Hurley -
SONAR Platinum - x64  - Windows 10 Pro 
ASUS P8P67 PRO Rev 3.0;  Core i7-2600K@4.4GHz; 16 GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X;
GeForce GT 740; Saffire Pro14 MixControl 3.7; Axiom 61
64-Bit audio, SR: 48kHz, ASIO 256 samples latency, Rec/Play I/O Buffers 512k, Total Round Trip Latency 13 ms, Pow-r 3 dither 
cpkoch
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/23 11:15:20 (permalink)

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Splat
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/23 17:17:41 (permalink)
cpkoch
Anyone had experience with http://www.dwindows.info/2014/02/windows-81-heavier-edition-2014-x64.html



I would never take build of a Windows OS from anywhere other than M$, and I like the way they call it "genuine edition" 


Looking through the specsheets I see "UAC disabled". Disabling security features by default tells me all I need to know about this, I would avoid at all costs!!!
 
BTW not that it really matters but you supplied the wrong link...

Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
@48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/23 18:55:59 (permalink)
I apologize if in any way I am read as being argumentative. I am an old guy. Started computing in '85 when I got the first great computer of the age: An Amiga.  Out of the box color, time slice multi-tasking, stereo audio,...
Sure was sad that Commodore bought the company and trashed it.
 
Been supporting windows computers since the beginning. Currently have clients using XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1. And Office 2003, 2007, 2010, 2013.
------------------
Setting the page file size limits requires the OS to delete stuff, update the current version of the "FATs" and then write to the deleted area, and then update the FATs again.  Without size limits the OS will save to the disk where ever and later do some clean up. Fewer operations, hence faster.
 
I defragment of the page/swap file by deleting it, defragmenting the disk, and creating it again. About every two weeks when I do all the disk clean-up stuff.
 
I use partitions as well for the big drives. Used to be needed because of the file block size and OS addressing. not so much any more.
 
Read some research last year that indicated it was better to have small drives for audio projects. Smaller disk less head movement when reading, writing, updating the index,.... Prolly not an issue with SSDs. But too many people are using these for OS disks instead of project/sample disks.  Booting 3 minutes faster has no bearing upon operating performance.
 
"I need it to boot fast so I do not lose the idea."  Yea, that is why I have a small digital recorder. Always with reach, especially at night.
 
I have a client who partitioned his one disk, placed the page file on the 2nd partition, and installed programs there, and some backup files,...   Noticeably decrease in performance because the same set of heads were being used for both partitions. Each of which has its own index.
 
---------------------------------------
 
Currently I am using the same machine for all activities.  The main business comp MB died two months ago. Luckily I always install MS office on all computers.  I use Excel for everything: lyrics, patch panel routing diagrams, lists of all equipment, and software,....  Been using spreadsheets as my primary tools since '85. So moving to the music comp for business use was sorta quick.
 
Sure is easier to use one computer than two: easier to copy, move, backup,....   We have 3 floortops, 3 laptops, dedicated "TV" computer, and a tablet in the house.   Currently got a nice, old laptop running w7 on a table in the potty room. Takes less room than the desktop did. No potty room should be without internet access.
 
All the computers have remote access to all the other computers. Truly useful.
 
---------------------
I site RME's research as it pertains to users playing with the swap file. RME's results were general. Just like Google's research about disk cooling: temperature below suggested range resulted in more failures.  After reading this I removed the extra fans from the case.  All temps are within reason. And the computers are quieter. 
 
I love science. Don't you?
 
 
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/23 19:02:16 (permalink)
YO OP ::::
 
Get windows 8.1 now.  PROVIDED the cpu in the machine has the requisite bits to run 8.1.
 
And the OS core will improve speeds on the computer. (If it will install.)
 
w10 is at least 9 months out. And then who knows what will need to be updated,...
 
We KNOW sonar products work on the current windows versions.
 
The FUI can be adjusted for acceptance, with bits of joy.  And what everyone else has written about making it useful.
 
Some peoples love the START WALLS.  I think having to scroll through nearly 120 tiles is just plain stupid. So I do not do it.
 
Paul P
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/23 22:21:21 (permalink)
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
Been using spreadsheets as my primary tools since '85. So moving to the music comp for business use was sorta quick.



I've always wondered about those who'll send a short memo using excel.
A 10mb doc for 5 or 6 lines of text !
 
Used to drive me crazy, back in the days when at least I worried about overloading internet bandwidth.
(And my connection was 300 baud)
 

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YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/23 23:30:36 (permalink)
Paul P
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
Been using spreadsheets as my primary tools since '85. So moving to the music comp for business use was sorta quick.

I've always wondered about those who'll send a short memo using excel.
A 10mb doc for 5 or 6 lines of text !
 
Used to drive me crazy, back in the days when at least I worried about overloading internet bandwidth.
(And my connection was 300 baud)
 



Novices!   Computer use should be a required course. At least 4 times as long as "drivers' education."   Stupid computer use is way more expensive than all the car crashes on the planet.
 
-----------
 
A bat got in the house tonight. The wif thought it was a sparrow. Last week we had a starling. I figger the house is encouraging me to leave. The ice storm last year took two cars and the front porch.
 
The bat is hanging on a box in my music room. Luckily the night is warm (For Michigan). I have the window open with hopes it will set itself free without me having to coax it.
 
Very strange to have a sense, a peripheral vision shadow sort-of-thing happen. Bats are WAY quiet. This one landed on my arm for a bit.   It is now hanging and torporing. 
 
Last time this happened I was able to direct it to exit without much stress for me.   Not sure this time will result in the same joy. 
 
Why does Loki insist that I have these existential dilemmanal moments resulting in lifetime memories of angst and regret?
 
Is this the same bat?   Is this another sign? 
 
Where are the crows?    Send in the crows.
 
arachnaut
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/25 01:19:06 (permalink)
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
I apologize if in any way I am read as being argumentative. I am an old guy. Started computing in '85 when
...
I love science. Don't you?

 
I don't feel you as argumentative. 
I started programming on 1968, if it matters.
If you asked me in, say 1990, would the Intel architecture be where it is now, I would have laughed.
I also like science.
 

- Jim Hurley -
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SuperG
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Re: Win7 or Win8.1? 2014/11/25 19:02:41 (permalink)
arachnaut
YouDontHasToCallMeJohnson
I apologize if in any way I am read as being argumentative. I am an old guy. Started computing in '85 when
...
I love science. Don't you?

 
I don't feel you as argumentative. 
I started programming on 1968, if it matters.
If you asked me in, say 1990, would the Intel architecture be where it is now, I would have laughed.
I also like science.
 




In 1990, I would've told you the Intel was the place to be. The glass house folks had no idea what us mere mortals were doing - but things were getting done way more efficiently than ever. Basically, the computing universe expanded exponentially.

laudem Deo
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