Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional

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markdemanbey
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2017/09/28 13:16:40 (permalink)

Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional

Hey, guys - I rarely post, but my DAW/system has developed a fault, and I wondered if anyone had seen it?
 
I'm Windows 10 on the latest and greatest patch level, soundcard is Focusrite Saffire 24 DSP (current driver), into a Firewire card.  Sonar Professional is fully up to date.
 
When I exit Sonar (which works perfectly, by the way), Windows audio never transfers back to the Saffire soundcard.  In fact, when I try to dive into the properties of the soundcard in Windows systems settings, the configure button doesn't respond.
 
Anyone seen that?
 
Mark.
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24 Replies Related Threads

    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 14:20:19 (permalink)
    Hi Mark,
     
    Check the list of processes to see that Sonar has actually stopped running.
    If it's still running, that might explain the behavior you're experiencing.

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #2
    markdemanbey
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 15:09:33 (permalink)
    Thanks, Jim - yeah, there are no Sonar process I can see locking it.  I suspect a Windows issue more than Sonar, to be honest. 
    #3
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 15:56:06 (permalink)
    Some USB MIDI drivers (Korg in particular) would not let go when closing Sonar.
    Sonar would thus appear to close... but couldn't completely shut down.
    This may not be your situation... but it can cause similar symptoms.   

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
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    #4
    abacab
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 16:40:50 (permalink)
    Does your Windows sound work with your soundcard after a reboot, and before you start Sonar?

    Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-10; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2  Other: Akai VIP; AIR AIEP 3; BIAB; Ignite; Iris 2; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik; VocalizerPro; Tracktion Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1703 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Mackie 1202
    #5
    markdemanbey
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 16:51:29 (permalink)
    OK, so here's the behaviour, as best as I can describe.
     
    • Run Sonar, everything works fine, regardless of whether another sound application is running (browser with YouTube was my test case).
    • Run browser with YouTube, everything works fine.
    • Run browser with YouTube after closing Sonar, no sound.
      • In this scenario, Control Panel | Sound | Saffire Speakers - the config button is in active.
      • Disable Saffire Speakers then re-enable, YouTube works.  
    • If I open both Sonar and YouTube at the same time, only Sonar produces sound.  However, if I then disable/re-enable the Saffire Speakes under Sound, both play fine.  I can even then open up new browser tabs and new browser sessions, and get sound from both.
    It does seem to be how Sonar is holding the Saffire Speaker device.  I've run Process Explorer though, and I can't see any hanging threads when I close Sonar...
    #6
    abacab
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 17:24:41 (permalink)
    A few things to play around with.  My settings are listed below.  I am using a FireWire audio interface that functions both as my Windows and Sonar sound source.  No conflicts here.  
     
    Check you settings in Sonar preferences > Audio > Playback and recording.
     
    There is an option "Suspend audio engine when Sonar is not in focus".  Try toggling that one.  I have mine not checked.  I think that used to say something about sharing the audio driver, but it seems to have been changed in a recent update.
     
    Also in Windows audio, there is an option in playback properties for exclusive mode. Playback devices (select your line out, or whatever you are using) > Properties > Advanced
     
    I have both items checked:
    • Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device
    • Give exclusive mode applications priority

    Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-10; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2  Other: Akai VIP; AIR AIEP 3; BIAB; Ignite; Iris 2; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik; VocalizerPro; Tracktion Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1703 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Mackie 1202
    #7
    markdemanbey
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 17:42:39 (permalink)
    Thanks - my Windows settings are as yours, but I've no option under Audio | Playback and Recording for suspend audio engine when Sonar is not in focus.  I've got "share drivers with other programs", which is ticked.
    #8
    markdemanbey
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 17:43:03 (permalink)
    I'm using ASIO drivers, by the way.
     
    #9
    scook
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 18:41:12 (permalink)
    Most windows programs do not use ASIO.
    One thing not mentioned so far is sample rate. Windows and SONAR should be set to the same sample rate. The interface can only run at one sample rate at a time and may have trouble switching back to the Windows sample rate (assuming it is different than SONAR) after running SONAR.
    #10
    markdemanbey
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 18:50:32 (permalink)
    scook
    Most windows programs do not use ASIO.
    One thing not mentioned so far is sample rate. Windows and SONAR should be set to the same sample rate. The interface can only run at one sample rate at a time and may have trouble switching back to the Windows sample rate (assuming it is different than SONAR) after running SONAR.


     Cheers - I'm using Saffire for everything - so basically all my sound comes from that soundcard.  I don't think that there's a way to set a sample rate in Windows, is there?
    #11
    scook
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 19:07:45 (permalink)
    The Saffire still has drivers other than ASIO or applications that expect a regular Windows driver will not work. Very few apps use ASIO.
     
    Here is how to configure the default playback device in Windows:
    • In the Windows Control Panel, open the Sound tool.
    • In the playback tab, click on the default device.
    • Click the properties button
    • Click the advanced tab in the Properties dialog to set the default sample rate and bit depth.
     
    #12
    abacab
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 21:48:55 (permalink)
    scook, I think that may be it.  If you are using a different sample rate in Sonar, and Windows can't switch it back, you will get silence.
     
    I ran into that a while back, but forgot about it.   I just leave Windows at 24-bit, 44100 Hz, and also use that as my audio setting in Sonar.  Have not had a problem since. 
     
    I use ASIO in Sonar, but Windows users whatever it uses.  If I try to start another audio app that uses ASIO when Sonar is still running, I get an error that driver is not available.  ASIO can only support one client at a time.  The Windows issue has nothing to do with ASIO.
     
    But it is possible to share your audio interface, using different drivers.  Everything must be at the same sample rate and bit depth.

    Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-10; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2  Other: Akai VIP; AIR AIEP 3; BIAB; Ignite; Iris 2; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik; VocalizerPro; Tracktion Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1703 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Mackie 1202
    #13
    scook
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/28 21:56:49 (permalink)
    abacab
     Everything must be at the same sample rate and bit depth.

    Pretty sure bit depth does not matter but sample rate is a different matter.
    #14
    kitekrazy1
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/09/29 00:06:10 (permalink)
    Simple solution is use your audio interface for DAW related work and use onboard sound for everything else.  I learned that trouble free lesson over a decade ago.

    Sonar Platinum, W7 Pro 32GB Ram, Intel i7 4790, AsRock Z97 Pro 4,  NVidia 750ti, AP2496
     
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    #15
    markdemanbey
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/10/12 09:29:34 (permalink)
    Thanks for the responses, guys - I thought that the bit depth/sample rate might be the thing, but I've synchronised them and the issue is still there.  Have to use the Focusrite box, as I don't really want to be buying more speakers...
     
    I'll keep plugging away at it.
    #16
    abacab
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/10/12 11:53:42 (permalink)
    Windows quit messing with me when I just left everything at 44,100 Hz.

    Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-10; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2  Other: Akai VIP; AIR AIEP 3; BIAB; Ignite; Iris 2; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik; VocalizerPro; Tracktion Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1703 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Mackie 1202
    #17
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/10/12 15:27:17 (permalink)
    Check the Default Playback Port (Control Panel>Sound>Playback tab)
    Make sure the selected port is the one connected to your monitor speakers.
    Play some Windows audio... and you should see the meter bouncing (next to the selected Default Playback Port).

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
    jim@studiocat.com
    www.studiocat.com
    #18
    markdemanbey
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/10/27 12:17:15 (permalink)
    OK, I'll close this out as resolved, although I don't quite know why.  As of this afternoon, I can let multiple apps (Sonar/Opera/Media Player) use my sound card without having to disable then re-enable it.
     
    Still have no idea what went wrong, or how it was fixed...
     
    Best guess is that it was a combination of different things, sample rate mis-match, various tick boxes.  Bizarre though, how it was working fine for years, then suddenly caused grief for months.
     
    Cheers for the help, guys.
     
    Mark.
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    bitflipper
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/10/27 13:20:33 (permalink)
    Cross fingers, Mark. I had a similar problem that persisted for a few weeks and then magically went away. Now it's come back after a 2-month hiatus. Symptoms are similar, insofar as Windows audio is lost after closing SONAR. But dissimilar in that it sometimes goes the other way: no audio from SONAR after watching a YouTube video.
     
    I am also a Focusrite/MixControl user over Firewire. I found that forcing the interface to reset itself would bring audio back, which I effected by changing the buffer size. This makes me suspect that the Focusrite driver or hardware may be at fault, or conceivably the Firewire driver or hardware.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    #20
    abacab
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/10/27 13:51:35 (permalink)
    I am of the opinion that audio over Firewire may be an afterthought in modern Windows.
     
    I am using an end of life M-Audio FW-410 with Win 7 drivers that still work on Win 10.  No hope of ever getting an update, but it still works.  Although I have had a few head scratchers getting my DAW and Windows audio to co-exist...

    Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-10; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2  Other: Akai VIP; AIR AIEP 3; BIAB; Ignite; Iris 2; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik; VocalizerPro; Tracktion Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1703 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Mackie 1202
    #21
    2:43AM
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/10/31 16:52:52 (permalink)
    I'll chime in on this one.
     
    I too have a Focusrite Saffire interface running ASIO.  IMO, Windows 10 continuously and needlessly screws with the PLAYBACK DEVICES sample rate.  I need to stay at 48kHz, and Win10 likes 44.1kHz despite being selected in the menu to be 48kHz.
     
    I guarantee that when your audio is lost, and there is no sound, you will find your PLAYBACK DEVICES set to 44100Hz.  Usually you can set it back to 48000Hz (or whatever rate you're using) and get the sound back without delay.  However, sometimes it completely borks, and your options will be unavailable.  It's locked up and the PC will require a restart.
     
    This is one of the biggest annoyances I have with Windows 10 for audio-related stuff.
     
    Additionally, Win10 likes to sneak in additional audio drivers on ya.  For example, I have my motherboard's audio DISABLED in the Device Manager.  Also, my monitor seems to have an audio driver despite NOT having speakers (Dell U3014).  If the link is lost between the PC and the monitor, for whatever reason, Win10 will re-enable this device and put my audio on that as the default device.  So ridiculous.
     
    Windows 7 never screwed with the sample rate...ever...even when flipping back and forth between Windows sounds (e.g. Media Player, VLC, iTunes), Firefox sounds (e.g. YouTube), and other applications running ASIO (e.g. SoundForge).

    CPU Stuff: SPLAT & Ableton Live 9, Win10 x64, MSI M.Power Z97 mobo, Intel i7-4790K @ 4GHz, 8GB RAM, 500GB SSD (Win10/Apps)
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    #22
    fireberd
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/10/31 17:06:48 (permalink)
    I have a Firewire interface (MOTU 896Mk3 Hybrid) and do not have any problems with the MOTU, PC audio or losing audio.  I have mine set to 44.1Khz.  I don't use 48Khz as I don't do any audio for video.  I have the Win 10 Fall Creators Upgrade installed (also worked OK before the Fall Creators Upgrade).

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    #23
    2:43AM
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/10/31 18:43:56 (permalink)
    fireberd
    I have a Firewire interface (MOTU 896Mk3 Hybrid) and do not have any problems with the MOTU, PC audio or losing audio.  I have mine set to 44.1Khz.  I don't use 48Khz as I don't do any audio for video.  I have the Win 10 Fall Creators Upgrade installed (also worked OK before the Fall Creators Upgrade).



    With 44.1kHz, then you're already good friends with Windows 10.  It won't try to change your ways because you're already where it wants you to be.

    CPU Stuff: SPLAT & Ableton Live 9, Win10 x64, MSI M.Power Z97 mobo, Intel i7-4790K @ 4GHz, 8GB RAM, 500GB SSD (Win10/Apps)
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    #24
    abacab
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    Re: Windows 10 - Lose Sound When Exiting Sonar Professional 2017/10/31 19:44:13 (permalink)
    2:43AM
     
    I guarantee that when your audio is lost, and there is no sound, you will find your PLAYBACK DEVICES set to 44100Hz.  Usually you can set it back to 48000Hz (or whatever rate you're using) and get the sound back without delay.  However, sometimes it completely borks, and your options will be unavailable.  It's locked up and the PC will require a restart.
     
    This is one of the biggest annoyances I have with Windows 10 for audio-related stuff.




    Yup, same with me when I try to set my audio at 48KHz.  Windows likes to play with me.
     
    If I set everything at 44.1KHz and leave it alone, everything is happy, and coexists. 

    Cakewalk: Sonar Platinum x64 2017-10; X3e; Dimension Pro; Rapture, Z3TA+2  Other: Akai VIP; AIR AIEP 3; BIAB; Ignite; Iris 2; SampleTank 3; SONiVOX; SynthMaster; Syntronik; VocalizerPro; Tracktion Waveform OS: Win10 Pro x64 1703 System: Homebuilt Asus; i3 3.4Ghz; 8GB DDR3; Intel HD Graphics; Dual Monitors; Samsung EVO 850 SSD, 250GB; WD 1.0TB 7200rpm; PCIe FireWire  Audio: M-Audio FW-410;  Controllers: A-300PRO; Alesis VX49; CME Xkey  Hardware: Roland JV880; JV1080; XP-30; Alesis QS-6; Casio CZ-1000; Mackie 1202
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