rebel007
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Windows 10 forced updates
I do worry that during an important recording session I'm going to be interrupted by a forced, Windows 10, update. I have Windows set so that I can tell it when to actually perform the update, but I don't think I can stop it from downloading an update if it finds one.
I guess if I disconnect from the internet, Windows can't find or download anything, but will that effect the way Windows works? Will it take away any processing power by continually searching for any of those updates?
I guess I'm a bit concerned about just how deep this automatic update thing goes, and will it effect Sonar in any way. I'm still on 32bit so memory is at a premium and I can't afford to just give Windows free reign.
Home Built Desktop Computer: Intel Core i5 750: 4Mb RAM: NVidia 210 Silent: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum: Roland OctaCapture Presario CQ41 Laptop: Intel Core i5 760: 4Mb RAM: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum (Retired) CbB on HP Pavilion Laptop 64bit: GeForce Video Card: Intel 8550: 256GB SSD 1TB Data Drive: Windows10 64bit
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arachnaut
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/11 11:42:15
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You can set your internet connection to 'Metered' and that should help.
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/11 11:51:10
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MandolinPicker
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/11 17:34:51
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Auto updates are already causing issues on some machines. During a recent update, some machines didn't perform the update cleanly. So Windows reverts back to the previous version. So far so good. Except now with automatic updates and no control over the issue, Windows sees that there is an update that needs to be installed - the one it just rolled back from. So it tries to update again, during the boot process, and fails, and rolls back, and reboots, and tries to install the update again, and fails, and rolls back, and reboots, and... well you get the idea. More over at Wired (UK) http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2015-08/11/windows-10-update-error
The Mandolin Picker "Bless your hearts... and all your vital organs" - John Duffy "Got time to breath, got time for music!"- Briscoe Darling, Jr. Windows 8.1, Sonar Platinum (64-bit), AMD FX 6120 Six-Core, 10GB RAM
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phlosten
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/11 20:28:59
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arachnaut
You can set your internet connection to 'Metered' and that should help.
Only if it is a wireless connection. There is no way to select metered for a cabled connection. There is a way to stop them downloading automatically via a local policy (at least it worked for me before I rolled back to Win8.1) - Run gpedit.msc (Local Group Policy Editor)
- Go to Computer Configuration -> Administrative Templates -> Windows Components -> Windows Update
- Modify the Configure Automatic Updates policy and set to Enabled and the Notify for download and notify for install.
This seemed to stop the auto downloading of updates however there were zero notifications. I had to go into Settings -> Updates to see anything there and then start manually. There are also scripts around that disable the Windows Update service permanently. You can temporarily stop the Windows Update service but a scheduled task starts it again. Microsoft are very determined to make sure everyone gets updates, but I despise not having any fine grained control that is obvious. I especially don't like that they are forcing out hardware updates as part of their system. If you work in IT like me you have more than likely seen that cause problems before. Part of the reason I rolled back.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/12 00:26:15
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Similarly, I just upgraded a machine to Win 10 (a general purpose machine, not the one running Platinum) and I have a period of 15 minutes of 100% disk busy after every reboot. I am still trying to run that down. I got a couple minutes of very heavy disk usage under Win 7, but nothing like this. So far it has only happened after a boot, but if this were to come up at other times, it would be very bad for any recording.
And for those who weren't sure about the so-called "free" business model, here is a little hint. Microsoft disabled all the solitaire games from the prior releases and now they want to browbeat you into buying a monthly subscription for the card games. With Win10, they are moving toward the Apple-style closed software model (although not officially announced) where everything will have to come through the Microsoft store so Microsoft can hit the software publishers with a big commission.
Nothing is free, and it seems like the whole idea of honest marketing (I guess that is an oxymoron) is long gone. People under 30 seem pretty comfortable with this. But some of us grew up in a period where companies were actually prosecuted for false advertising.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/12 00:45:49
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Loads of free solitare games online. Check my link above for an interesting article on how to optimise win10 for updates. Of course they are bigging MS store but you can download tons of free stuff on PC's. If people are getting worried they are going into closed model then that's a good thing ... Because people will pay much better attention to Linux. I don't believe it will happen though, they just want to pull people in that direction. If solitaire is the only example we can use of M$ switching the tables we better find some other examples.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/12 00:53:48
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cparmerlee
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/12 00:53:17
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Doktor Avalanche
If solitaire is the only example we can use of M$ switching the tables we better find some other examples.
First they came for the Freecell players. But I did not speak out because I was not a card player ...
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WDI
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/12 02:07:43
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cparmerlee
And for those who weren't sure about the so-called "free" business model, here is a little hint. Microsoft disabled all the solitaire games from the prior releases and now they want to browbeat you into buying a monthly subscription for the card games. With Win10, they are moving toward the Apple-style closed software model (although not officially announced) where everything will have to come through the Microsoft store so Microsoft can hit the software publishers with a big commission.
I guess for iOS you have to go through the app store. But on the Mac it doesn't seem Apple forces you to buy through the app store. For instance Adobe CS6, BlackMagic DaVinci Resolve, Steam games, Blender, Guitar Pro, Spotify, Renoise just looking at what I have installed not through the app store. I think the app store is just a convenience and Microsoft is probably trying to make a convenient place to get software is all. It only makes sense since most software is downloaded nowadays. Not sure why they would try to make money off solitaire though. Seems kinda of silly and would be a freebe. But ya, Microsoft has to make money somehow if they are not going to sell the operating system.
Sonar 7 PE Windows XP Pofessional (SP3) MSI K8N Neo4-F AMD Athlon 64 3500+ 2 GB PC 3200 Ram RME Fireface 800 Edirol FA-66 CM Labs MotorMix Old stuff: ARJO
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phlosten
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/12 03:36:51
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☄ Helpfulby cparmerlee 2015/08/12 10:15:38
Remember, if the price is free, YOU are the product. :)
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cparmerlee
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/12 10:23:53
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phlosten
Remember, if the price is free, YOU are the product. :)
Exactly. This is very much a generational thing. My parents were kids during the Great Depression and the spent their entire lives being ultra frugal. Some of us who grew up in the 60s have a distaste for authority, whether it is big government or big business. Millennials seem to have no concerns about privacy, and don't mind being marketed to 24x7x360 degrees. I couldn't survive in the Internet world if I didn't have an ad blocker.
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OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
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cityrat
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/12 10:25:00
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WDI
Not sure why they would try to make money off solitaire though. Seems kinda of silly and would be a freebe. But ya, Microsoft has to make money somehow if they are not going to sell the operating system.
It's a brilliantly (evil laugh) scheme. It's not a big thing (solitaire) so it lets them creep into the pay to play arena, get people used to it, maybe it's super cheap. So it's basically a trial balloon to see how far they can and will eventually push things. I can *definitely* see a desire to eventually have a "free" OS - but ALL apps must be bought thru MS Store (for YOUR protection etc and convenience of course). Once that happens, THEN they can push whatever price and subscription model the public will accept w/o loosing market share to OS's like LINUX etc. It's all a balance sheet. At the best case it provides a decent option at a reasonable price. At the worst it becomes: deliver the worse service at the highest price the customer will pay.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/12 13:52:29
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Doktor Avalanche
If solitaire is the only example we can use of M$ switching the tables we better find some other examples.
OK I've found a better example. Visual Studio 2015, the tool that develops Sonar and other M$ applications is now subscription only. Or you can rent it. So they are turning into the Adobe subscription model. Same with MS Office I guess... I'm screwed as I have a standalone Visual Studio 2013 Pro license which seems to get me nowhere.... It wasn't that long ago you would get a free copy if you attended the right release shows. The OS I'm sure will remain "free", probably even after a year I suspect, they want people to buy/rent their other applications, as everything else. Nobody will buy windows standalone any more anyway as it will come included with new OEM machines in future.
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joden
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/12 13:57:04
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☄ Helpfulby Keni 2015/08/12 15:17:51
Well as I wrote in another thread you CAN turn it off and on:
Open a CMD Prompt (admin) quick way is windows key+X then select Command Prompt (admin) when it opens at the prompt type: net stop wuauserv it will then run and report the service was stopped successfully. Sometimes it MIGHT take a couple of goes. To restart just replace the word stop with start.
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shawn@trustmedia.tv
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/13 04:06:22
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I really don't think to run your DAW in windows 7 8 or 10 you would need any update besides service pack 1, after that I think you could turn updates of...imho. -Shawn
Studio SONAR X3. Axiom 25 midi controller, DUNE 2, Producer Content, Good Times, Bandlab Mojo 
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/13 07:48:40
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shawn@trustmedia.tv
I really don't think to run your DAW in windows 7 8 or 10 you would need any update besides service pack 1, after that I think you could turn updates of...imho. -Shawn
There will prob be no service packs. Windows 10 is the last version of Windows and will be under continuous development like sonar. If you turn it off than new software that takes advantage of new features won't work. Also consider all software has big fixes Inc OS's, if it's under continuous development that means continuous bug fixes. Also note new software is developed under the latest libraries. Finally security issues pop up all the time. M$ knows machines that don't get updates installed are a liability. So really not a good idea. Just make sure you run backups.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/13 07:57:40
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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shawn@trustmedia.tv
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/13 08:00:33
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Maybe do updates once or twice a year? :) -S
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rebel007
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/15 09:18:46
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Ok, so group policy editor (or removing internet cable) seems to be the obvious solution. Thank you for that Doktor.
Home Built Desktop Computer: Intel Core i5 750: 4Mb RAM: NVidia 210 Silent: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum: Roland OctaCapture Presario CQ41 Laptop: Intel Core i5 760: 4Mb RAM: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum (Retired) CbB on HP Pavilion Laptop 64bit: GeForce Video Card: Intel 8550: 256GB SSD 1TB Data Drive: Windows10 64bit
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cparmerlee
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/15 17:17:06
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shawn@trustmedia.tv
Maybe do updates once or twice a year? :) -S
Unless you have the enterprise version of Windows, I don't think this is an option. I think the only option you have is to elect deferred updates. In that case, Microsoft will select some non-essential updates and defer them by a couple of months, but they will continue to put the critical ones on your computer immediately. As I understand it, the consumer versions of Windows 10 (i.e. the free version) provides no option to decline updates.
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rebel007
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/16 04:14:56
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Ok, so pull the plug if you have the home version, I'm ok with that. I have often pulled out the modem cable so there was no chance of any internet app accidentally interrupting a critical recording session.
I have also found the option that states if you have other Windows products, then Windows may restart your computer before applying these updates. There doesn't seem to be an option to defer this and I do have Office 365. I'm assuming that this would probably be the culprit if anything.
I am liking Windows10, it seems a bit zippier on my laptop and after a few workflow changes I'm starting to see the benefits of the upgrade from Windows7. I guess I'll just have to keep an eye on a few processes and the performance monitor, to make sure I'm not going backwards in respect to computing power. Being on a 32bit OS requires a bit more thought with regards to memory usage.
Home Built Desktop Computer: Intel Core i5 750: 4Mb RAM: NVidia 210 Silent: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum: Roland OctaCapture Presario CQ41 Laptop: Intel Core i5 760: 4Mb RAM: Windows 10 32bit: Sonar Platinum (Retired) CbB on HP Pavilion Laptop 64bit: GeForce Video Card: Intel 8550: 256GB SSD 1TB Data Drive: Windows10 64bit
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BRuys
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/16 07:29:45
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I have three PCs running Win 10 here, one of which is my DAW. So far, every Windows update cycle has broken one or the other of them. Unless something changes for the better, and quick, I think Windows 10 is shaping up as the least stable Windows version in years. NOT the kind of OS I want to run a DAW on.
I'm going to give this a little bit longer, but I think I may be heading back to Windows 7, or maybe 8.1. Longer term, I can only see the Mac as a viable option. That would mean moving away from Sonar, which would be heart breaking, but I'm losing faith in Windows.
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mgh
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/16 07:49:10
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Windows asked me what time I want to check and download updates. 3 am should minimise any disruption to Sonar. ..
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thaddeusjon
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/16 10:44:10
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I have three laptops and two desktops and no problems with Windows 10. One desktop is a 32 bit Dell from 1992. I think the anxiety level is unstable in this arena. First off, it's a month old. It was just six months ago eveyone had the same fears over Sonar. All I can say is get a grip and smile about it later. Just like we did with Splat.
post edited by thaddeusjon - 2015/08/16 11:57:03
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g_randybrown
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/16 11:25:21
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Anyone using a Scarlett 2i2 with Win 10? If so, is it still working after the latest Win update?
I ask because my driver for Scarlett vanished and what's worse is it won't re-install...I've tried 3 times and it shows it installed but is still no where to be found (Device Manager or elsewhere).
After initially installing Win 10 (a couple of weeks ago)I had four identical ( version 1.3.30.1) "NVIDIA High Definition Audio" (my video card is NVIDIA) and one "NVIDIA Virtual Audio Device (Wave Extensible) (WDM)" along with my cheesy Realtek driver.
I disabled the Realtek and all but one of the NVIDIA drivers (version 1.3.30.1) and installed the Scarlett.
It worked fine except every morning when first booting up my audio/video played at about half speed (using WMPlayer, YT, etc).
A reboot fixed the issue every time but this morning after getting a pop-up that Win installed updates I can't get Scarlett back at all.
Any suggestions?
Thanks very much,
Randy
G. Randy Brown Windows 10, 64 bit, PlatinumIntel Core i7-3770S Asus P8Z77-V LK mobo 4X8GB Corsair XMS3 memory 500 GB Crucial BX100 SSD (OS)two WD Black 1 TB HDDSAPPHIRE DUAL-X 100314-4L Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 Presonus AudioBox 22VSLyoutube.com/crystalclearnm
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/16 12:16:37
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BRuys
I have three PCs running Win 10 here, one of which is my DAW. So far, every Windows update cycle has broken one or the other of them. Unless something changes for the better, and quick, I think Windows 10 is shaping up as the least stable Windows version in years. NOT the kind of OS I want to run a DAW on.
Check the third post here.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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cparmerlee
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/16 12:40:39
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Doktor Avalanche
BRuys
I have three PCs running Win 10 here, one of which is my DAW. So far, every Windows update cycle has broken one or the other of them. Unless something changes for the better, and quick, I think Windows 10 is shaping up as the least stable Windows version in years. NOT the kind of OS I want to run a DAW on.
Check the third post here.
The article you linked is useful, but it sound to me like RBuys is saying that it was the code, not the update PROCESS that broke his computers -- hence his statement that Win10 may be the least stable OS version. I haven't seen that. I have one machine running 10 and have only really had one issue. I am not going to put my music computer on Win10 until January at the earliest.
DAW: SONAR Platinum Audio I/F: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen2
OS: Windows 10 64-bit CPU: Haswell 4790 4.0 GHz, 4 core, 8 thread Memory: 16 GB Video: GTX-760Ti
Storage: Sandisk SSD 500GB for active projects. ReadyNAS 20 TB for long-term storagesonocrafters.com
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/16 20:53:51
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I don't know what "code" means in this context - it's all code :) And none of us have access to the code .. it's not open source so it's impossible to verify it is "code" unless you check it with the people who make the code... Windows update delivers updated code (bugfixes, performance improvements and secularity fixes). Even if Windows update "breaks" something, often it's not Windows update fault, often it's third party code. My view is there is a lot of assumptions on going... You will not for instance the nvidia update that annoyed beta testers for instance- yup third party code... Cheers...
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/16 21:03:23
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BRuys
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/17 02:10:37
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Well, as way of example, this weekend Windows updated my Win10 PVR computer. After the update, my PVR app crashed. I traced it to the DVB-S driver which reported "Insufficient system resources exist to complete the api" in device manager. I uninstalled, reinstalled and got it going for the time being, but this same driver was solid under 7 and 8.1. Last week, after a Windows update on my DAW, the monitor would switch itself off after Windows booted, requiring me to un-plug and re-plug the DVI cable - I still don't have a fix, as I already have the latest driver installed. The never a problem until the update. My DAW is less than 2 years old, my video card around 12 month old (AMD) - this was not the nVidia bug, but directly related to the update. My HP laptop, which is about 12 months old got hit with the infinite reboot Win 10 update issue that was reported in the press. Pretty poor track record to date and does not instil me with confidence. I guess I have been unlucky, but if I was doing audio full time for my main income, I would not want to run it on Win 10 until I was sure the OS and its forced updates were stable. Yes, I can disable Windows updates with the tips above, but my DAW is internet connected, partly because it makes Sonar easy to keep up to date. Missing a critical security update on an internet connected PC is not great either - damned if you do, damned if you don't. I shouldn't have to jump flaming hoops to prevent these kinds of issues.
post edited by BRuys - 2015/08/17 02:27:10
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c5_convertible
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/17 04:35:02
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cparmerlee
And for those who weren't sure about the so-called "free" business model, here is a little hint. Microsoft disabled all the solitaire games from the prior releases and now they want to browbeat you into buying a monthly subscription for the card games.
Microsoft solitaire collection for Windows 10 is free, so I'm not sure what you mean? Someone mentioned Visual Studio... There is a community edition of Visual Studio 2015, which is free. Concerning updates.. If you have windows 10 pro (which there is also a free update to), you can defer updates for a longer period that with the home version. If you had Home edition of W8.1, you will get home edition for 10. If you had a Pro version of it, you will get a pro version of 10. The only version that is not free upgradeable is the enterprise version. And that is not 100% correct either. Enterprise upgrades are handled in the enterprise agreement, and as long as you have that, you can upgrade to the latest version at any time. Of course, the enterprise agreement is not free... I find it strange that every time microsoft does something, everybody thinks they have some evil scheme. Of course they want to make money, every company in the world does! Do they want to trick you? I don't think so. They don't do anything the competition isn't doing. And you can still install software without the app store. You can still install free software, and you can still configure windows so that it doesn't share everything with the world.
Sonar Platinum - Windows 10 x64 - I7 6700K - 32GB RAM - Samsung SSD's for OS (250GB) and sample libraries (500GB) - Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 - Korg Kronos 61 - Yamaha Motif XF8 - JBL LSR 305
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Windows 10 forced updates
2015/08/17 09:48:42
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c5_convertible
Someone mentioned Visual Studio... There is a community edition of Visual Studio 2015, which is free.
That's like saying why don't you downgrade from Platinum to music creator?  There is no doubt they are moving to rental like everybody else is. Difference is they are going to be a lot more expensive if you look at Visual Studio/Office etc. It does not matter what version of Windows you will be on. I still like Win10. Cheers!
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/08/17 09:59:03
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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