jerrydf
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i5 6500 3.2GHz; 16GB; Win10 on SSD1; recording and samples on SSD2; + 3 other HDDs; 2 monitors in landscape; back with CbB and also Cubase 10 Pro, Komplete 11, Steinberg UR22. Instruments: Various fretboards and amplifiers. Listen to ... Cosmic Two-Step (2017)
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bitman
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 09:32:23
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I fear that this is a grand scheme, coupled with the giving away of win10 by ms, to one day, via an update, render windows 10 as a cloud terminal so to speak and we all go back to the time share days of the day of the mainframe paying rent to MS.
Why else give it away if not to rope in as many as possible.
And then make updates (live code modification) mandatory if not to enslave us?
You C: drive is your personal power and liberty - don't give it up.
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John T
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 10:09:30
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Customers would just walk away from that, though. So even if they were planning that, they couldn't pull it off. And I'm sure they're not daft enough to be planning it.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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John T
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 10:10:19
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☄ Helpfulby karhide 2015/07/16 13:39:30
As a side point, I've had automatic updates on in Windows 7 for five years straight, and it's never caused me a single problem.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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BobF
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 11:52:48
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I kind of agree John T. I have always had auto checks and installs disabled, but the reality is the only updates I haven't ended up installing are the Bing and Skype updates.
The biggest deal for me is control over the timing of both phoning home, and download/install.
The other thing that nags the back of my mind is the idea (think FB and google models) that if something is free for me, then I am probably the product being sold to someone else.
How many ads (think Android & reduced price Kindle) will I be forced to watch or dismiss while tracking for my future-platinum album?
There's a reason for FREE stuff on the interwebz!!!
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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pwalpwal
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 12:17:33
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John T
As a side point, I've had automatic updates on in Windows 7 for five years straight, and it's never caused me a single problem.
same here, and with 8.1 also
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John T
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 12:22:02
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BobF
The other thing that nags the back of my mind is the idea (think FB and google models) that if something is free for me, then I am probably the product being sold to someone else.
How many ads (think Android & reduced price Kindle) will I be forced to watch or dismiss while tracking for my future-platinum album?
There's a reason for FREE stuff on the interwebz!!!
My impression is that MS aren't really building an ad-supported / data-mining thing. It's more that Windows becomes the platform via which they sell you other things. Cloud services, office apps, stuff like that. That's the thing that really requires that you keep your users more or less up to date with the latest platform. There's not really any other reason to bother.
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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Beepster
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 12:28:53
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Meh... they may be just that stupid but this is why you test this stuff out before going all in on critical machines.
My Win7 system works alright but I would like the supposed performance advantages of Win10 (but maybe I shoudl scramble and try to snag a Win8 disc just in case?).
This is the type of thing that would drive me to another OS though.
So, Bakers, let's get our beloved program working on Linux...
oops, did I say Linux? Yeah, I did. Screw Mac (but port to that as well if you have time) but with all your talent pool I'd bet you guys could hack up a nice Linux distro that works flawlessly with Sonar and manages to get VSTs working well too. Heck... maybe the Cake distro would be so sweet and smooth it could beat out Ubuntu as the best commercial version for people just wanting to do general crap.
I'm sure there are all sorts of lawyers and execs and whatnot who'd get their long blades out over such an action though but if possible...
SONAR 4 LINUX!!!!
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BobF
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 12:48:49
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John T
BobF
The other thing that nags the back of my mind is the idea (think FB and google models) that if something is free for me, then I am probably the product being sold to someone else.
How many ads (think Android & reduced price Kindle) will I be forced to watch or dismiss while tracking for my future-platinum album?
There's a reason for FREE stuff on the interwebz!!!
My impression is that MS aren't really building an ad-supported / data-mining thing. It's more that Windows becomes the platform via which they sell you other things. Cloud services, office apps, stuff like that.
That's the thing that really requires that you keep your users more or less up to date with the latest platform. There's not really any other reason to bother.
Even being nagged by MS ads will be annoying ... ANYTHING that can be mined and sold WILL be mined and sold. No self-respecting CEO will leave revenue laying about :)
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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John T
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 12:51:42
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BobF
ANYTHING that can be mined and sold WILL be mined and sold. No self-respecting CEO will leave revenue laying about :)
That first sentence and the second sentence don't actually support each other, you know. What if the process of mining and selling everything you can actually lowered revenue?
http://johntatlockaudio.com/Self-build PC // 16GB RAM // i7 3770k @ 3.5 Ghz // Nofan 0dB cooler // ASUS P8-Z77 V Pro motherboard // Intel x-25m SSD System Drive // Seagate RAID Array Audio Drive // Windows 10 64 bit // Sonar Platinum (64 bit) // Sonar VS-700 // M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 // KRK RP-6 Monitors // and a bunch of other stuff
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BobF
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 12:53:34
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John T
BobF
ANYTHING that can be mined and sold WILL be mined and sold. No self-respecting CEO will leave revenue laying about :)
That first sentence and the second sentence don't actually support each other, you know.
What if the process of mining and selling everything you can actually lowered revenue?
I guess time will tell the tale ...
Bob -- Angels are crying because truth has died ...Illegitimi non carborundum --Studio One Pro / i7-6700@3.80GHZ, 32GB Win 10 Pro x64 Roland FA06, LX61+, Fishman Tripleplay, FaderPort, US-16x08 + ARC2.5/Event PS8s Waves Gold/IKM Max/Nomad Factory IS3/K11U
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slartabartfast
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 13:01:54
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The forced updates for home users (not on an enterprise service contract) is apparently part of the license. So that is no longer speculation. http://www.zdnet.com/article/microsoft-releases-new-license-terms-for-windows-10-no-surprises/?tag=nl.e539&s_cid=e539&ttag=e539&ftag=TRE17cfd61 The ability to get a valid Win 10 license by upgrading a pirated/"non-genuine" version of Win7 or Win8 has been debunked. Your upgrade will not be genuine Windows (licensed) unless done from a licensed version. Apparently you can move a retail Win10 to a new machine, but as always you can not move an OEM Win10 off the machine you bought it with. That raises an interesting possibility. Since Win10 upgrades will be offered free so long as the machine it is installed on is compatible hardware, when your old machine will no longer run the latest Win10 will you be able to just buy a new/better clean computer and just move your Win10 installation and license to that machine? A perpetual license for an immortal OS?
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dappa1
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 13:05:41
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I saw something about paying for google and the big e when learn windows 10 popped up unannounced on my screen.
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joden
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 13:47:57
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Beepster
Meh... they may be just that stupid but this is why you test this stuff out before going all in on critical machines.
My Win7 system works alright but I would like the supposed performance advantages of Win10 (but maybe I shoudl scramble and try to snag a Win8 disc just in case?).
This is the type of thing that would drive me to another OS though.
So, Bakers, let's get our beloved program working on Linux...
oops, did I say Linux? Yeah, I did. Screw Mac (but port to that as well if you have time) but with all your talent pool I'd bet you guys could hack up a nice Linux distro that works flawlessly with Sonar and manages to get VSTs working well too. Heck... maybe the Cake distro would be so sweet and smooth it could beat out Ubuntu as the best commercial version for people just wanting to do general crap.
I'm sure there are all sorts of lawyers and execs and whatnot who'd get their long blades out over such an action though but if possible...
SONAR 4 LINUX!!!!
+1000 ^^^^ THIS!!!
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John
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 14:26:07
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For most automatic updates is not a problem. For a few that want total control over updating just run the update module under Update and Security and check for updates yourself.
For me its really about knowing when an update is going to happen. I am not in any way opposed to updates. I'm not sure what others have as an objection to them. It has often been said here to apply updates for solving issues encountered from time to time.
Also I am moving this thread to the Software forum.
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kitekrazy1
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 14:33:30
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I think they should lower their prices on the licenses. They always had intro prices. I bought a 3 pack of W7 Home for $150. My only W8 Pro license had a $50 intro price from MS. I have 4 systems, 3 have W7 Pro OEM licenses. I upgraded everything on a machine and didn't have to call MS. One the motherboard died and I used the old board on the upgraded machine and had to call MS. My OEM license came from a vendor who got sued by MS so I'll be forced in W10 OEM. I'm not a fan of OEM licenses since they cost the same as retail and if you like to upgrade important parts it's not the best choice. I know they were lenient in the past with OEM reactivation but who knows this time.
One of the reasons for keeping the updates on is for security patches. Keep in mind the OS is free for a year. MS revenue is not totally reliant on their OS. With Sony PS4 not playing older games Xbox could take the top spot. Plus Vista made people hold on to XP longer. W8 pushed people into Apple products. W10 free is more like an apology.
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jerrydf
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 14:43:02
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Actually, having raised the thread in the first place, I have auto updates on my Win8.1, with no issues, yet. It's just the increasing mandatory takeover that Windows exerts on a machine. As long as we can roll-back an errant update.
jdf
i5 6500 3.2GHz; 16GB; Win10 on SSD1; recording and samples on SSD2; + 3 other HDDs; 2 monitors in landscape; back with CbB and also Cubase 10 Pro, Komplete 11, Steinberg UR22. Instruments: Various fretboards and amplifiers. Listen to ... Cosmic Two-Step (2017)
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Anderton
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 14:45:13
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Maybe there's something cursed about 9. Windows is going from 8 to 10. SONAR went from 8 to 8.5, and then X1. Apple System 9 was the last version before OS X. 9 could be to software as the 13th floor is to elevators 
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John
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 14:56:52
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Anderton
Maybe there's something cursed about 9. Windows is going from 8 to 10. SONAR went from 8 to 8.5, and then X1. Apple System 9 was the last version before OS X.
9 could be to software as the 13th floor is to elevators
You may have a point. LOL Though I can't think of a reason for this to be so. There was Pro Audio 9 and it was a great version. Maybe its the notion of no. 9 being a dog. (no offense to canines) In Viet Nam no. 1 was great no. 9 was awful.
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Doktor Avalanche 
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 15:42:31
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Those worried about windows update should just get a decent backup system going like acronis. Then stop worrying. By not updating your OS periodically you are running a system with worse security, worse reliability and slower performance.
This isn't Windows XP any more.
Cheers.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 15:49:21
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batsbrew
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 16:02:21
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what about those of us who run our DAW's off line?
once i get a DAW settled down and running smoothly,
i don't care about updates.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 16:05:44
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batsbrew
what about those of us who run our DAW's off line?
once i get a DAW settled down and running smoothly,
i don't care about updates.
Better not update straight away eh... You'll find out end of month. I suspect you will be left alone until you next connect online.
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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Beepster
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 20:43:53
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Apparently they skipped over 9 because it had the potential of screwing up programs. Essentially they were worried that certain programs would see the 9 and think they were dealing with win 95 or 98. Sounds kind of nuts but that little tidbit was buried in some Q&A stuff I was reading about Win10 and supposedly directly from MS.
Then again... it's the intertubes so who the frack knows.
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/16 21:19:28
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Beepster
Apparently they skipped over 9 because it had the potential of screwing up programs. Essentially they were worried that certain programs would see the 9 and think they were dealing with win 95 or 98. Sounds kind of nuts but that little tidbit was buried in some Q&A stuff I was reading about Win10 and supposedly directly from MS.
Then again... it's the intertubes so who the frack knows.
Sounds like horse to me :) Nice story though from internet land! Cheers..
Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.6,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),2 x 1TB SSD (Samsung EVO 850),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5. Rap Pro,Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1,Addictive Keys,Waves Silver,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist,Acronis True Image 2015.
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dubdisciple
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/17 00:39:59
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Forced updates can me nightmarish for those working in professional environments. Couple years back MS did an update that that totally screwed many video editors. It conflocted with a of video cards and had to be removed. Subsequent patches fixed it months later. Most rolled back until then. If that update had been mandatory I would have been unable to work for a month or two.
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Larry Jones
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/17 01:45:42
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John
For most automatic updates is not a problem. For a few that want total control over updating just run the update module under Update and Security and check for updates yourself.
For me its really about knowing when an update is going to happen. I am not in any way opposed to updates. I'm not sure what others have as an objection to them. It has often been said here to apply updates for solving issues encountered from time to time.
Also I am moving this thread to the Software forum.
Not sure if you read the original post, but this is about Windows 10, and mandatory updates occurring on Microsoft's schedule. If the updates really are going to be mandatory, as has been suggested, they almost certainly will disallow your idea of checking for updates at your own pace. Everybody wants the "good" updates. It's a matter of finding out which ones are going to turn out to be helpful and not disrupt your work. One way to do that is to take an update only after it's been out for a while and proven itself. If Sonar updated itself automatically, a lot of users would have been derailed several times already this year, and Cakewalk is a company that cares about its customers. I don't have the same faith in Microsoft, so to me the concept of mandatory forced "updates" is disconcerting (not that there will be a lot of options in dealing with Microsoft).
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/17 10:04:46
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dubdisciple
Forced updates can me nightmarish for those working in professional environments. Couple years back MS did an update that that totally screwed many video editors. It conflocted with a of video cards and had to be removed. Subsequent patches fixed it months later. Most rolled back until then. If that update had been mandatory I would have been unable to work for a month or two.
If you had done backups you would have been fine.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/07/17 10:12:13
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Doktor Avalanche
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/17 10:14:43
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Larry Jones
Not sure if you read the original post, but this is about Windows 10, and mandatory updates occurring on Microsoft's schedule. If the updates really are going to be mandatory, as has been suggested, they almost certainly will disallow your idea of checking for updates at your own pace.
Everybody wants the "good" updates. It's a matter of finding out which ones are going to turn out to be helpful and not disrupt your work. One way to do that is to take an update only after it's been out for a while and proven itself.
I speculate M$ will allow people to install updates within a certain time period, up to a month maybe. Some will be entirely optional. Some emergency updates will be installed straight away. If you are offline you won't get hassled until you are online again. If an update is dodgy it will simply roll back, you will probably get the option to optionally roll back as well if necessary afterwards. Forcing updates is a great way if improving reliabilty. One of the issues some updates may have been problematic in the past is because users were installing them in a different order to other users. By forcing users to installl updates in the same order as everybody else peoples experiences are going to be similar (not exactly of course because of different hardware). M$'s QA dept will have a much easier time.
post edited by Doktor Avalanche - 2015/07/17 10:24:24
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Larry Jones
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Re: Windows 10 - updates may be automatic and mandatory
2015/07/17 15:34:15
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Doktor Avalanche
I speculate M$ will allow people to install updates within a certain time period, up to a month maybe. Some will be entirely optional. Some emergency updates will be installed straight away. If you are offline you won't get hassled until you are online again.
If an update is dodgy it will simply roll back, you will probably get the option to optionally roll back as well if necessary afterwards.
Forcing updates is a great way if improving reliabilty. One of the issues some updates may have been problematic in the past is because users were installing them in a different order to other users. By forcing users to installl updates in the same order as everybody else peoples experiences are going to be similar (not exactly of course because of different hardware). M$'s QA dept will have a much easier time.
You describe sort of the best of all possible update scenarios. Since we are speculating, I am inclined to speculate that Microsoft will find a way to make things more complicated and potentially disruptive. If they don't, then I will be pleasantly surprised and happy. Of course this means I will be depressed and fearful for months leading up to the Win 10 release, but that's the price for ultimate happiness.
SONAR Platinum 2017.10 • CbB • Win10 • i7/2600 • 16GB RAM • Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 • NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS
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