Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3

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xycon
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2013/12/28 21:04:13 (permalink)

Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3

Hello.  I've been trying to install Sonar X3 for the first time and every time when it gets about two thirds of the way through and says its extracting files the system reboots with no warning.  Then I have to start all over.  The install appears to almost stop before it reboots.  I'm running Windows 7 (64 bit) on a Dell Precision i7 with 16 Gb of memory.  I have Symantec virus turned off and I even tried uninstalling the virus protection to make sure it wasn't interfering, but no luck.  I also tried both 32 and 64 bit installations, but same problem.  I have administrator privileges on this computer but I do need to use an admin password when installing software since it is a "managed" computer.  Any suggestions on how to fix this would be greatly appreciated.  Thanks.
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    Splat
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/28 21:13:05 (permalink)
    Welcome....
     
    The issue will be Windows and not Sonar I suspect.
    Please make sure the install files are on your C drive.
    Do you have enough disk space?
    Try running the install by right clicking the file and then click "Run As Administrator".
    Are you installing to the default file locations?
    Also what do you mean by a  "managed" computer?
     
    How does it reboot, is this a Blue Screen Of Death? What does it say in the Windows Event Viewer?
     
    Otherwise for the time being I suggest running chkdsk first followed by Windows update. Also please make sure your sound card drivers are up to date (for starters).
     
    Hope this helps...

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    #2
    xycon
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 00:19:47 (permalink)
    Thanks, I'll try the things you suggested.  Plenty of disc space (>300 Gb) and I'm installing in the default location on C drive. Not the blue screen of death...it reboots just like you clicked on restart but with no warning.  When I say managed I mean it is a university computer and that there are different levels of administrator privileges.  One needs administrator privileges to install software and I have those privileges but don't have the ability to alter certain aspects of the system like changing certain security settings.  Nevertheless, I have installed lot's of other programs with no problems.  This may be a Windows problems, but if so, it appears to be specific to Sonar since other installations work fine (including removing and re-installing Symantec today).  I'm not seeing anything in the Event Viewer indicating a reboot, but then I'm not sure what I am looking for either.
     
    #3
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 00:38:34 (permalink)
    Is it possible you still have the included Windows antivirus software running?  If so, please suspend it and try again.
     
    Also, concur on making sure you use the explicit Run As Administrator option to launch the installer, rather than just using an account that has Admin privileges.
     
    The above would be my first guesses, 
     
    Bob Bone
     

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    #4
    Splat
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 00:48:20 (permalink)
    ... and if that doesn't work you will need to get a sysadmin to log you in as a Full Administrator on your desktop (even though you may have installed other software in the past). Sonar may still be denied access to the areas of the registry (or disk) it needs to write to.
     
    BTW to avoid confusion, there is only one administrator privilege in Windows. "Administrator" actually means you are a superuser (god) of your machine and you are not restricted in any way.
     
    You appear not to be an administrator, but you do have permissions which lay in the middle of being a normal user and actually being an administrator. Probably "manager" or something.
     
    Cheers
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2013/12/29 00:55:39

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    #5
    JonD
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 03:11:13 (permalink)
    You could actually be getting a critical error that is causing the system to auto-restart.  Make sure the following setting is disabled (that the box is unchecked):
     
    Control Panel-System-Advanced System Settings-Startup and Recovery-Settings-Automatically Restart
     
    If the box is already unchecked, I would next suspect that your system is overheating... Check the air flow -- that the vents aren't clogged with dust.  If you see evidence of this, you may need to remove the side panel and vacuum the cpu/fan as well. 
     
    Or, if this is a laptop - in addition to checking for dust - make sure the bottom vents aren't blocked (Keep it on a table or desk top - not on a bed or carpet).

    SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
    #6
    robert_e_bone
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 07:45:45 (permalink)
    CakeAlexS
    ... and if that doesn't work you will need to get a sysadmin to log you in as a Full Administrator on your desktop (even though you may have installed other software in the past). Sonar may still be denied access to the areas of the registry (or disk) it needs to write to.
     
    BTW to avoid confusion, there is only one administrator privilege in Windows. "Administrator" actually means you are a superuser (god) of your machine and you are not restricted in any way.
     
    You appear not to be an administrator, but you do have permissions which lay in the middle of being a normal user and actually being an administrator. Probably "manager" or something.
     
    Cheers


    Regarding Windows 7 Administrator priviliges - I think confusion remains about Administrator - To the best of my knowledge, there are differences between a user account being assigned Administrator account type and program execution privileges.
     
    When signed on to Windows 7 with an account that is set to have Administrator privileges, there is an additional token created - a program execution token - that is given a more basic set of privileges.  This is part of UAC.
     
    This is one reason that when launching the Sonar installer, that it should be EXPLICITLY set to launch with Run As Administrator, in order to get the full set of EXECUTION privileges needed for a proper installation.
     
    You can cause the launch of the Sonar installer with Run As Administrator by either right-clicking on the launch icon, then clicking on Run As Administrator, or you can right-click on the launch icon, then click on properties, then click on advanced, then click on Run As Administrator, then click Apply, and this will then ALWAYS launch the installer with Run As Administrator.
     
    Bob Bone
     
     
    post edited by robert_e_bone - 2013/12/29 08:05:07

    Wisdom is a giant accumulation of "DOH!"
     
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    #7
    gcolbert
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 11:24:54 (permalink)
    There is a specific problem with the X3 installer on Windows 7 that relates to one of the C++ libraries being loaded that the X3 installer is trying to replace.  If you have Gobbler (one of the programs that forces the C++ library to load) it will just reboot without notice.  If you run as a full administrator you will get a prompt that the machine is about to reboot that you can cancel the reboot and continue the install.
     
    You must be logged in as an administrator to get the prompt.
    Glen

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    xycon
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 12:56:17 (permalink)
    Thanks for all the helpful comments!  But alas, I still can't get it to install properly.  I am right clicking on the X3 setup.exe icon on the DVD and selecting "Run as Administrator."   I give it the admin password and install from there. However, I think the way it is set up is I'm a user with some admin privileges, but I do not have full admin privileges so it is possible that the problem with X3 installer mentioned by Glen is what is happening and I'm not getting the message to continue without reboot.  The way this is set up I have to give it the admin password every time I do something that requires admin privileges, even if it's just 10 seconds later; so it is not like I can log in as admin and have full privileges until I log out.  I did check the "restart" box mentioned by JonD and it was unchecked.  Also, it does not appear to be overheating.  The laptop is not hot to the touch and the vents are clear.  The computer goes quiet for two or three minutes before rebooting and the install seems to stop with just the "extracting files" message showing, like the installer is frozen.  This consistently happens about 22 minutes into the installation, after it has gone through the C++ files.  I tried installing in advanced mode with just the program option checked and that also failed.  Our IT folks won't be available for over a week but I will check with them if I haven't solved it by then.  In the meantime I'll try the disc on a home computer to make sure the problem isn't with the disc.  Thanks again.
    #9
    gcolbert
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 13:05:20 (permalink)
    xycon
    This consistently happens about 22 minutes into the installation, after it has gone through the C++ files.  I tried installing in advanced mode with just the program option checked and that also failed.

    This sounds exactly like the issue I mentioned before.  You might try killing any other background programs (Gobbler, Jing, Skype, Quicktime, etc) before starting the install.  Also, are you installing from CD or from the download?  This may have been fixed in the download version, but is known to happen with the CD media.
    Glen

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    Beepster
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 13:10:24 (permalink)
    I think you should CALL cakewalk support to see if they can navigate you through this. They won't be around today but should be tomorrow. Don't wait until Tuesday though because they may be understaffed because of NYE and will likely be closed completely on NYD.
     
    Can't help you beyond that.
    #11
    xycon
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 14:02:23 (permalink)
    I'm installing from the DVD.  I don't have Gobbler but being a laptop there are a lot of background programs running.  I'll try shutting them off.  Perhaps Tech Support will let me try the download version tomorrow.
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    Beepster
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 14:25:01 (permalink)
    I'm not sure but if you manage to get it installed and registered on your home system then a download link might appear in your store account. I forget whether I got a dl link for my first Sonar version (X1 Pro Suite on DVD). If not they'll likely at the very least email you the downloads so if you can try to install at home tonight (to register and create an account) and call them tomorrow.
     
    It does sound to me like an issue on that system whether through permissions, setup or other gack on the system. Sonar is a little more invasive than the usual app so perhaps it's fiddling with parts of the registry you you simply were not intended to.
     
    Are the owners/admins of this computer aware of the fact you were going to attempt this install? Is this for like an a/v course or something? We had an issue a while back with a fellow trying to install it on a work or school system (I forget) and he really should not have been. IIRC it really ticked off one of more helpful members (Bob) who was going out of his way to get him going because the guy tried to hide that fact from us throughout a very long thread and wasted everyone's time. He was not supposed to be installing it and the system was set up to NOT allow such shenanigans and he couldn't disable stuff that was interfering with the program.
     
    Not saying that's what you are doing and you seem to be being very upfront but it is quite possible there is a good reason the system isn't letting you do this.... because the owners don't actually want you to. Knowaddimean?
     
    Either way, good luck. There are some other things you'll probably run into if you are trying to run Sonar on a laptop (especially if you don't have an interface) so even if it does install you may not be out of the woods yet. Just let us know. Lots of smart and helpful folks here.
     
    And welcome to the forum. :-)
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    Beepster
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 14:30:14 (permalink)
    You know I just thought of something. Maybe try a custom install for now and just install the DAW without any of the extra stuff. See if that at least gets you through the first bit so you can register it and start poking around. Another thing would be to use the Cakewalk tech support email thing to type up your system specs and as much detail as you can about what's going on. That way when you call them you can point to the support ticket or email and save some time because they'll have all the pertinent info on their computer screen instead of having to convey it all over the phone which is far less efficient or accurate.
     
    All the contact info is available here.
     
    Cheers.
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    xycon
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 14:39:09 (permalink)
    Tried the custom install with just the program checked and it still dies at the same point.  I'm supposed to have privileges to install software on this computer, so that shouldn't be an issue, but as others have pointed out it may be doing things with the registry that require full admin.  Thanks for the tips.
    #15
    John
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 14:44:13 (permalink)
    It should not reboot no matter what your status is. The worse it should do is put up a dialog that you can't do that or something of the sort. Something is not working on the system. Make sure you have all your drivers up to date. Also be sure that the down load of X3 is not corrupt. 

    Best
    John
    #16
    mettelus
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 15:06:30 (permalink)
    I have a hunch it may be what Bob pointed out above. Out of curiosity, right click on that first install file, select Properties, then click the "security" tab, then click on your user name in that listing... do you have everything (except special permissions) listed as "Allow"?
     
    Edit: It would actually be easier just to right click something already installed on the machine.

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    #17
    Splat
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 15:29:04 (permalink)
    CakeAlexS
    Regarding Windows 7 Administrator priviliges - I think confusion remains about Administrator - To the best of my knowledge, there are differences between a user account being assigned Administrator account type and program execution privileges.
     
    When signed on to Windows 7 with an account that is set to have Administrator privileges, there is an additional token created - a program execution token - that is given a more basic set of privileges.  This is part of UAC.



    It can be as simple as permissions to access HEY_LOCAL_MACHINE and HKEY_CURRENT_USER in the registry.
     
    Regardless there can be other factors at play i.e.
    * File Permissions
    * Group Policy Objects (restrictions and allowances all over the machine and for the user)
     
    If group policy (GPO) is set then it's anybody's guess where permissions can be assigned at a granular level for the user. Who knows how group policy has been set for Ross.
     
    Here is an example to prevent a user installing printer drivers for instance:
    http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc938161.aspx
     
    The only true way to bypass all this is to log in as Administrator of the local machine or as a Domain administrator. Clearly Ross has neither of these permissions and needs to obtain them at least temporarily (time to talk to the University SysAdmin).
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2013/12/29 15:59:41

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    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    #18
    xycon
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 15:29:06 (permalink)
    Yup, everything but "special permission" is check as "allow"
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    mettelus
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 15:50:58 (permalink)
    Is your OS drive an SSD? Reason I ask is mine does not take kindly to having massive files uncompressed on it, so installing from a DVD that is where it will default to putting them. I have always had to install SONAR from magnetic media because of this.

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    Splat
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 15:56:11 (permalink)
    xycon
    Yup, everything but "special permission" is check as "allow"



    And special permission what is that set up for as, and for what? :)
    And that's just file permissions (I am guessing) and certainly not GPO
     
    The truth I would suggest is that there are too many factors here, get a sysadmin and install the software with him or her logged on it (domain admin or local machine admin), if they are off site maybe they can use remote desktop. Then you can rule out any issue to do with permissions (and my bet that's the issue, but I don't really know until you try it).
     
    Cheers..
    post edited by CakeAlexS - 2013/12/29 16:03:37

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

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    #21
    xycon
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 16:36:29 (permalink)
    It's an HDD drive.
    #22
    mettelus
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 16:39:58 (permalink)
    Alex may have the best solution... you need a good friend in the IT department to help you load your "education-based software" to expand your creative mind.

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    #23
    xycon
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 16:47:53 (permalink)
    Yup.  Sounds like I'll have to wait until someone in IT can help.  Thanks for all the suggestions!
    #24
    Beepster
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 16:56:54 (permalink)
    The consensus seems to be that there is something going on with your access to the system or system itself. This is why I posted that somewhat rambling story earlier and suggested you call support and troubleshoot it over the phone with them. System admins can be tricky weirdos and who knows how they got that system built or configured (except them). Cake support will be far better able to troubleshoot this in real time to give you a definitive answer on whether it's gonna install or not. Frankly trying to install something on a system you aren't completely familiar with and have full control over is... well kind of not ideal. You've got some of our better tech guys here giving you advice so if it's not working out at this point something specific is going on and it will likely only turn into an exercise in frustration for you until you can a) talk to your uni admins or b) go through this with support so they can pin down what is interrupting the install process.
     
    Seriously... it really should not be this difficult. I'm an idiot and I managed to get all three versions I've owned installed on my home built system (remember I'm an idiot) without any issues. I even got the X1 demo installed on my crappy bloatware infested laptop before I bought Sonar. It didn't work properly because it's a crappy laptop but it installed fine.
     
    Sisyphus sayeth "Dude... this rock be heavy, yo".
    #25
    Beepster
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 17:00:05 (permalink)
    D'oh. I seem to have type up all that blathering for nothing. lol
     
    Try it on your home system though. At least you can poke around the program while you wait. Cheers.
    #26
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 17:06:40 (permalink)
    Cake will find it extremely difficult if not impossible to diagnose what areas of the registry do have permission and what areas don't I would suggest if the user permissions are restricted, if a user is restricted then they are restricted. GPO is a complex affair. It would be a guessing game unless the user wants to install the GPO tools and go through all the options to see what works and see what doesn't (could take all day)...
     
    Unless I'm barking up the wrong tree... Cake may find it is something entirely different.
     
    But Ross has already stated he has had "special permissions" revoked on his hard drive (and even then I'm not sure which areas), and special permissions is just a subset of any file permission + a load of other file permissions thrown on top, and the registry (GPO) this is anybody's guess especially if Ross will be locked out (otherwise administrators would not have restricted him). Smells like a smoking gun to me.
     
    End of the day, no sudo, then it is no sudo....  (not to be confused with Run As Administrator which is something similar but very different)

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #27
    Beepster
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 17:27:27 (permalink)
    Yeah, see that's all beyond me. I just figure the Cake techs can go "Do this, this, this and this" and if it doesn't work then Sonar just won't install. Then dudes that control the computer would have to come into the fray which ideally they would be already but they are not around for a couple weeks.
     
    IDK... I just wouldn't even really expect a program like Sonar to work on just any system even if the specs were there. It's not Adobe Reader or Angry Birds or something. I mean no harm in trying I just know how frustrating and time consuming it can be attempting to make my shiny light boxes do stuff they can't for whatever reason... and those are MY shiny light boxes. Frankly I'm surprised I've had the luck I have with all this fancy audio stuff. I generally have a black thumb for this kind of crap. Sheer will I guess.
    #28
    Splat
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 17:36:16 (permalink)
    Unless you've been an administrator on a Windows Server box and played with GPO... yup it will be gobbledegook, and most people in helpdesks have never done so either. The clearest explanation of GPO though is setting special permissions on areas of the registry for specific users or machines.... It took me weeks to get a grip on it!


    A long long time ago whilst experimenting I managed to lock out about 250 users from their machines for about 30 minutes (because I set the wrong GPO permission and I didn't realise the environment was live)... but that's another story

    Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed.
    @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38.

    Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
    #29
    Beepster
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    Re: Windows 7 reboots while trying to install Sonar X3 2013/12/29 17:45:34 (permalink)
    CakeAlexS


    A long long time ago whilst experimenting I managed to lock out about 250 users from their machines for about 30 minutes (because I set the wrong GPO permission and I didn't realise the environment was live)... but that's another story




    Whoops! lol
    #30
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