timboe
Max Output Level: -75 dBFS
- Total Posts : 760
- Joined: 2004/01/07 09:01:29
- Status: offline
|
LJB
Max Output Level: -60 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1502
- Joined: 2009/07/29 10:31:31
- Location: South Africa
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 10:12:38
(permalink)
Sound On Sound reckons it's killer. I say go with SOS.
Ludwig Bouwer, One Big Room Studios.
--------------------
Cakewalk with all the trimmings / Win 10Pro 64 / Intel i7-7700 / Asus Prime Z270k / 16GB DDR4 / RME HDSP9652 / RME UFX / Black Lion Audio ADA8000 / ART MPA & ART Pro Channel / Focusrite Voicemaster Pro / Aphex 107
Check out my work at www.onebigroom.co.za
|
cclarry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 20964
- Joined: 2012/02/07 09:42:07
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 10:17:01
(permalink)
Well here's my Windows 8 Experience...
I installed the Release Candidate...
Nothing worked...
My Quad Capture wouldn't work...
My MICROSOFT Bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse wouldn't work..
NONE Of the Metro Apps worked...
If that's a release candidate it's pretty sad...
I wanted to see how the new core handling worked with X1...
FAT CHANCE....
Also, it was FAR SLOWER then Windows 7...which was QUITE a surprise
as, when I installed the FIRST W8 Beta it was BLAZINGLY fast...
Hope they get the iron out for the laundry before they release it...
|
mattox82
Max Output Level: -87 dBFS
- Total Posts : 173
- Joined: 2011/03/29 04:28:09
- Location: Perth, Australia
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 10:38:37
(permalink)
Bizzare, I have no issues at all with windows 8. Running a bunch of different DAW's and all work fine. Even my Line6 interface is working which surprised me. I get the full version of Windows 8 tomorrow (MSDN member) and will be running it full time as so far I've had no issues (other than thinking metro is a little meh)
|
Linear Phase
Max Output Level: -53 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2201
- Joined: 2012/04/15 02:21:15
- Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL USA
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 10:44:09
(permalink)
too many lasers...  Sonar = audio editing ninja of a music software!
|
Gary VanderHaeghe
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 22
- Joined: 2012/08/15 10:28:31
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 10:56:07
(permalink)
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 12:48:47
(permalink)
Here's what Noel wrote in his blog: [In CW's benchmark tests] Windows 8 performed better than Windows 7 across the board in all categories, and in many cases with fairly dramatic performance gains. Comments by many early Win8 adopters consistently report a baseline DPC latency of about 1000us, which we'd normally deem borderline unacceptable for audio. However, DPC latency is only part of the picture, and 1000us it might actually be OK if other efficiencies make up for it. Although it is going to set the minimum roundtrip latency that you'll ever be able to achieve to perhaps 5ms or so. Audio is a small market segment and therefore a low priority for Microsoft, and historically they've addressed it after the initial release. There is apparently already a major Win8 update scheduled for next Spring. I'd wait until then to decide whether or not to migrate.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
cclarry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 20964
- Joined: 2012/02/07 09:42:07
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 12:59:21
(permalink)
bitflipper
Here's what Noel wrote in his blog:
[In CW's benchmark tests] Windows 8 performed better than Windows 7 across the board in all categories, and in many cases with fairly dramatic performance gains.
Comments by many early Win8 adopters consistently report a baseline DPC latency of about 1000us, which we'd normally deem borderline unacceptable for audio. However, DPC latency is only part of the picture, and 1000us it might actually be OK if other efficiencies make up for it. Although it is going to set the minimum roundtrip latency that you'll ever be able to achieve to perhaps 5ms or so.
Audio is a small market segment and therefore a low priority for Microsoft, and historically they've addressed it after the initial release. There is apparently already a major Win8 update scheduled for next Spring. I'd wait until then to decide whether or not to migrate.
I believe this on one of the early Betas... Which were blindingly fast....it was pretty amazing... THEN when I installed the Pre Release version...everything went to poop...my WPI went from 6.0 to 5.6 with the PR Win 8. Load time was noticeably longer then Win 7....everything seemed to be "dragging" in comparison to Win 7 and the EARLY Betas... Just my observations... I immediately uninstalled it and re-installed Win 7...
|
djtrailmixxx
Max Output Level: -86 dBFS
- Total Posts : 235
- Joined: 2008/10/29 13:47:01
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 13:09:17
(permalink)
I think the DPC tools are now depreciated for our purposes when it comes to Windows 8. There have been a number of kernel changes that may cause these high readings. I have been using Win 8 for audio and video work steadily, with no issues and improved performance.
Sonar Platinum X64 - Win 10 x64 - Intel SB-E 3930 - Gigabyte GA-X79-UP4 - 16GB DDR3 - AMD R290X - 4x 1TB SSD RAID 0 (Sys and Data partitions) - 2x UAD2 Quad - 1x UAD2 Octo - UAD Apollo Dual
|
gcolbert
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1176
- Joined: 2010/11/13 18:34:06
- Location: Windsor Mill, MD
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 13:37:53
(permalink)
I have to say I'm quite supprised at this. I have done a couple of projects from end-to-end using X1 on Windows 8. It seemed to work much faster and more smoothly than doing the same work using Windows 7. Without objective measurements it is hard to say if it was really better, but my impression was that Sonar runs better under Windows 8.
Could it be that with the new kernel the DPC latency checker results are no longer valid? It might be that DPC needs a rework.
|
cclarry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 20964
- Joined: 2012/02/07 09:42:07
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 13:54:59
(permalink)
gcolbert
I have to say I'm quite supprised at this. I have done a couple of projects from end-to-end using X1 on Windows 8. It seemed to work much faster and more smoothly than doing the same work using Windows 7. Without objective measurements it is hard to say if it was really better, but my impression was that Sonar runs better under Windows 8.
Could it be that with the new kernel the DPC latency checker results are no longer valid? It might be that DPC needs a rework.
As it should... The MAIN reason I wanted to use Windows 8 was it's better handling of Sonar....it provides a much more equal load on multiprocessor systems. BUT, none of my hardware would work. And none of the Metro Apps worked. AND, much to my dismay, in comparison to previous releases, was FAR slower. So, hopefully when it ships it will be in better shape...and the ALWAYS late Hardwae driver developers at Cake - I mean Roland (and most other hardware drivers in the audio industry) will have their Win 8 drivers in place and blah blah blah..
|
Zo
Max Output Level: -25 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5036
- Joined: 2008/01/25 20:49:55
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 14:49:53
(permalink)
Be happy , cause we have the choice ..unlike mac users ....
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
|
Tweakberry
Max Output Level: -89 dBFS
- Total Posts : 69
- Joined: 2011/05/04 07:03:25
- Location: Upstate New York
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 15:48:12
(permalink)
if anyone is using the DPC Latency Checker tool apparently it doesnt give accurate output under Windows 8 "Windows 8 Compatibility: The DPC latency utility runs on Windows 8 but does not show correct values. The output suggests that the Windows 8 kernel performs badly and introduces a constant latency of one millisecond which is not the case in practice. DPCs in the Windows 8 kernel behave identical to Windows 7. The utility produces incorrect results because the implementation of kernel timers has changed in Windows 8 which causes a side effect with the measuring algorithm used by the utility. Thesycon is working on a new version of the DPC latency utility and will make it available on this site as soon as it is finished." http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 17:20:01
(permalink)
Mystery solved, thanks tweak. One mystery, at least. Anybody tried LatencyMon with Win 8? I see that it's been updated for Windows 8.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
chuckebaby
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 13146
- Joined: 2011/01/04 14:55:28
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 17:54:04
(permalink)
bet ya anything windows 8 bombs worse then vista,never have i seen or heard review as bad as now.since vista came out.
Windows 8.1 X64 Sonar Platinum x64 Custom built: Asrock z97 1150 - Intel I7 4790k - 16GB corsair DDR3 1600 - PNY SSD 220GBFocusrite Saffire 18I8 - Mackie Control
|
skylightron
Max Output Level: -85 dBFS
- Total Posts : 277
- Joined: 2011/09/03 18:05:39
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 18:37:21
(permalink)
In Noel's blog it sounded like Windows 8 has a lot going for it especially for lower latency music production. Let's hope your running a bad release candidate and that the final release will yield better results similar to your beta versions. BTW, what do you think they will rename Metro? http://news.yahoo.com/blo...er-stop-163446999.html
post edited by skylightron - 2012/08/15 19:06:57
|
soundtweaker
Max Output Level: -70 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1036
- Joined: 2003/11/12 12:25:59
- Location: San Francisco
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 21:05:30
(permalink)
The MAIN reason I wanted to use Windows 8 was it's better handling of Sonar....it provides a much more equal load on multiprocessor systems.
BUT, none of my hardware would work. And none of the Metro Apps worked. AND, much to my dismay, in comparison to previous releases, was
FAR slower.
Well try the free 90 day trial of the official Win 8 version and this time do a clean install.
|
bitflipper
01100010 01101001 01110100 01100110 01101100 01101
- Total Posts : 26036
- Joined: 2006/09/17 11:23:23
- Location: Everett, WA USA
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 21:33:01
(permalink)
bet ya anything windows 8 bombs worse then vista,never have i seen or heard review as bad as now.since vista came out. I beat ya to that bet a month ago, except that I said "ME" instead of "Vista". At least Vista had some fans. Actually, I don't think Win8 will fare as badly. This Metro thing, though, that's another story. It's one thing to introduce a new tablet-friendly feature, it's another thing to throw it smack in your way when all you want to do is some conventional computing. The way things are going, the eventual target platform for everything will be your telephone. I'm not buyin' in to it until they invent 3d holographic virtual screens to go with them.
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
|
Michael Five
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 366
- Joined: 2008/01/18 00:43:06
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/15 21:50:30
(permalink)
Bitflipper, I have an innate DPC latency of about 3ms on my XP system. 1000 isn't borderline, it's prohibitively ruinous - no other efficiencies could conceivably offset the periodic loss of a full second of latency. You are a wise man, am I missing something here?
_______________________________________________ X1c, p35 6600 Quad OC@3Ghz, FF400, Saffire 6, IBM T42, UAD-1, Superior 2.0
|
synkrotron
Max Output Level: -22.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5263
- Joined: 2006/04/28 16:21:21
- Location: Warrington, UK
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/16 03:02:28
(permalink)
Michael Five
Bitflipper, I have an innate DPC latency of about 3ms on my XP system. 1000 isn't borderline, it's prohibitively ruinous
I thought that 1000us (microseconds) = 1ms (milliseconds) Regarding Windows 8, I am a little disappointed reading some of the above posts as I was hoping to jump to Windows 8 when X2 is released (or visa versa).
http://www.synkrotron.co.uk/Intel Core™i7-3820QM Quad Core Mobile Processor 2.70GHz 8MB cache | Intel HM77 Express Chipset | 16GB SAMSUNG 1600MHz SODIMM DDR3 RAM | NVIDIA GeForce GTX 675M - 2.0GB DDR5 Video RAM | 500GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | 1TB Samsung 850 Pro SSD | Windows 10 Pro | Roland OCTA-CAPTURE | SONAR Platinum ∞ FFS| Too many VSTi's to list here | KRK KNS-8400 Headphones | Roland JP-8000 | Oberheim OB12 | Novation Nova | Gibson SG Special | PRS Studio
|
Michael Five
Max Output Level: -83 dBFS
- Total Posts : 366
- Joined: 2008/01/18 00:43:06
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/16 04:32:25
(permalink)
my bad, I got the units mixed up. The order of the difference is still the same though bit's number is not nearly so ruinous when the units are right... Plus, I didn't read far enough in the thread to see that DPCLAT read falsely in Win8 and the number was probably wrong anyway. double my bad...
_______________________________________________ X1c, p35 6600 Quad OC@3Ghz, FF400, Saffire 6, IBM T42, UAD-1, Superior 2.0
|
Bristol_Jonesey
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 16775
- Joined: 2007/10/08 15:41:17
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/16 04:37:57
(permalink)
The only way I'm going to move to Windows 8 is if a) the technology is PROVEN to work reliably and consistently as a DAW platform WITHOUT ISSUE, and b) support for Win 7 goes down the toilet.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
|
jm24
Max Output Level: -54 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2127
- Joined: 2003/11/12 10:41:12
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/16 10:14:47
(permalink)
Will get w8 next week, via MS subscription.
I intend to replace the preview on the main music computer, which is installed on the 3rd partition on the OS drive: w7-32, w7-64, w8-64.
Will get to play with same projects, same hardware, new OS. Improvements and changes will be easy to judge and adjust to taste.
Will also do the same with the some of the business computers in the office. Fun for all.
J
|
Jim Roseberry
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 9871
- Joined: 2004/03/23 11:34:51
- Location: Ohio
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/16 10:18:47
(permalink)
Win8 update scheduled for next Spring. I'd wait until then to decide whether or not to migrate. Unless you have a very compelling reason to immediately grab Win8, it makes sense to wait for a few months... to let all the small issues get ironed out. The "bleeding edge" is exciting... but it can get messy.
|
jm24
Max Output Level: -54 dBFS
- Total Posts : 2127
- Joined: 2003/11/12 10:41:12
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/16 11:57:31
(permalink)
Many of the comments about NOT getting w8,... are framed as an "OR" choice, "All or nothing."
Not good decision making.
This is not about "betting the farm."
Disks are big enough to allocate a 60 gig partition for installation of a $40 program. (w8 special price from nov to feb.)
And: w8 is essentially vista's 6th version: vista, sp1, sp2, w7, sp1. Fixes and changes, some stupid, some not.
Being available for many hardware platforms has helped the MS dudes focus on fixing inconsistancies, and optimizations. Hence the results of improved performance.
A new ugly stupid interface, with arbitrary changes in function access: nothing new to most Sonar users.
j
|
Guitarpima
Max Output Level: -34 dBFS
- Total Posts : 4125
- Joined: 2005/11/19 23:53:59
- Location: Terra 3
- Status: offline
Re:Windows 8 *TERRIBLE* DPC Latency ..... Noel can you please read and chime in ......
2012/08/16 13:27:09
(permalink)
I think you nailed it there. $40 for the OS until Febuary? That's really a no brainer deal from Microsoft. Don't forget, you get the pro version as long as you have XP, Vista or 7.
Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy. Win 7 x64 X2 Intel DX58SO, Intel i7 920 2.66ghz 12gb DDR3 ASUS ATI EAH5750 650w PSU 4x WD HDs 320gb DVD, DVD RW Eleven Rack, KRK Rokit 8s and 10s sub
|