Helpful ReplyWould a DI box improve my guitar sound?

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sharke
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2016/03/03 11:36:19 (permalink)

Would a DI box improve my guitar sound?

Have no experience with them. Would a good pro-quality DI box reduce buzzing and improve the general tone of my Telecaster into my Babyface?

James
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rsinger
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/03 11:54:01 (permalink)
It looks like the Babyface has a HiZ input, but the website doesn't say how hi a Z :) You may need a Zbox or something similar.
 
http://www.motu.com/products/guitar/zbox/body.html
 
If you have single coil PUs and they are not noiseless. you'll need to be careful about EMI. I prefer to go thru a guitar preamp set transparently and into line level. 

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drewfx1
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/03 12:32:14 (permalink)
A DI, as noted above, is mainly for impedance matching. If you have an interface with an instrument input where the impedance of that input is too low, then you will lose high end. If you have any FX pedal with buffered bypass (like Boss pedals and many others) you can see if you hear any improvement with the pedal in the middle.

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sharke
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/03 17:10:56 (permalink)
I do get quite a lot of EMI in my telecaster pickups, especially noticeable when using hi-gain or even "crunchy" amp sim settings. I realize Telecasters aren't really renowned for hi-gain sounds but still, I'm pretty sure when I've played them in the past through real amps, the buzz wasn't nearly so bad as it is going into my computer. 

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batsbrew
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/03 18:11:01 (permalink)
a real amp,
would improve the sound of your guitar into your babyface.
 
your mileage will not vary.

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sharke
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/03 18:32:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby BobF 2016/03/04 10:13:31
Oh yeah I'm not denying that, but when you live in a situation in which miking up real amps isn't really an option, getting the best out of your DI/amp sim sound is paramount. 
 

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Cactus Music
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/03 20:32:46 (permalink)
A DI is a device mainly used to convert a guitars hi impediance out to a lo Z to send a clean signal to a mixing board. There will also be a hi Z output that goes to your amp on stage. In a studio one might use one in conjuction with a miked up amp for the engineer to have the clean sound. 
A real good DI like one made by Radial or Jensen might make anl improvment to the signal because they use better transformers ( Jensen) , A cheapo DI will make no difference comparied to your interfaces Hi Z. Might make it worse. 
There are many guitar pre amps that work without a speaker. My Blackstar as an example. 
The best tone is going to come from a real guitar pre amp. There is a sort of reaction between the PU's and the pre amp. I find plugging in my G&L directly to my interface is lifeless. 
There's certain types of guitar sounds that you can get away with that but not the type of music I play..I need the amp or the pre amp. 
 

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mettelus
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/03 23:32:48 (permalink)
I have gone back and forth on a DI box for a long time, but still never gotten one. As long as a signal is strong enough, a lot can be done with a signal once it gets inside the box before it ever hits an amp sim (and is almost mandatory for amp sims in my experience). I use a compressor/EQ combo prior to amp sims, and if I used single coils I would consider a gate in that chain as well.
 
EMI in particular takes some research of your environment to combat. Plugging in and throwing SPAN on an echoed track will let you walk around with the guitar and use it like an antenna to check the environment. Some things can be isolated (transformers, motors, ground loops, etc.), and others cannot. Kill the ones that can, and for the ones that cannot, throw another instance of SPAN in the chain with a gate/compressor/EQ between them. Tweak those to see if you get a clean sound you want (will high frequency roll-off), and then try the amp sim. This may be enough, but processing effects without this "EMI seek-and-destroy" mission first can get aggravating. (A funny experience of mine is my #1 EMI issue is a Yamaha mixer 3' from my interface... I track (in seriousness) with that off and through headphones.)
 
In actuality, the gate, compressor, EQ can be done inside the amp sim, but is much easier to isolate/control if used as a "common chain" for your setup, which is the real point of it. It also saves on "nasty surprises" when swapping presets within an amp sim since you do not have to change those settings each time (just pull those from the preset you switch to is easier).

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BobF
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/04 10:01:32 (permalink)
In general, my experience between an interface HIZ and a DI box has yielded no real difference.  A DI will give you the ability to lift the ground - which may or may not do anything to help your situation.
 
 

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batsbrew
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/04 10:04:46 (permalink)
if you want decent enough tones to commit to a project that you really care about,
get a real amp.
 
figure out which models have emulated outs and silent recording modes.
 
at the very least, get a guitar preamp.

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tlw
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/04 11:12:29 (permalink)
The Babyface's Hi-Z instrument input is 470KOhms according to the specs in the manual. Which is perhaps a little on the low side, 1MOhm or higher being generally considered a better match for the input impedance of a valve amp.

Having said that, 470KOhm is also the input buffer's impedance of a Tube Screamer and people generally don't complain about Tube Screamers affecting their tone for the worse when switched off. If you've any pedals that have buffers between guitar and interface the guitar will see that buffer in any case, not the Babyface's impedance. A good DI box with a 1MOhm+ input impedance might get you a bit more volume and treble, but so would any Boss pedal put between guitar and interface (Boss pedals all have 1MOhm buffers which are pretty good as it happens).

The additional buzzing compared to what you might get in stage is almost certainly down to being near a computer. Computers can emit all kinds of radio interference which single coil pickups are very susceptible to receiving. Add flourescent/low energy lighting, domestic lighting dimmers, switching power supplies, electrically noisy transformers in monitor amplifiers etc. into the equation and noise can quickly get out of hand.

A DI box won't reduce noise unless there's a ground-loop between two mains-powered pieces of kit when the earth-lift switch on the DI might make a difference.

The best answer to single coil noise is to first try having the guitar at different angles to the computer, monitor screen etc. and see if that helps, or to get the guitar further away from the sources of electrical noise. It might also be worth shielding the pickup and control cavities with copper foil or conductive paint connected to earth, though Fender have been applying conductive paint to the cavities in many of their instruments, even the less expensive Mexican ones, for some time. The usual give-away that this has been done at the factory is a wire screwed into the pickup or control cavity, or trem spring cavity on a Strat.

As for Teles and high gain, a Tele+fuzz->Marshall setup is as old as fuzzes and Marshalls. Or overdriven tweed Fender amps. You'll probably always get some noise, because a Tele bridge pickup in particular is quite a bit more powerful than the anaemic Strat vintage single coils, and a Tele Texas Special is about as powerful as a PAF humbucker and can really buzz away.

It's even quite possible the guitar is just as noisy on stage - it's just that playing live we and the audience tend to filter out the noise, it's only when recording or listening to a recording we spot it.

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sharke
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/04 14:46:38 (permalink)
Yeah I have experimented with guitar positions in the past and funnily enough there are a couple of positions in my room which are substantially quieter - unfortunately they both involve me facing away from my DAW, quite a distance from it.

I might look into a preamp to improve my tone however. Any recommendations?

James
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Jim Roseberry
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/04 14:47:38 (permalink)
sharke
Have no experience with them. Would a good pro-quality DI box reduce buzzing and improve the general tone of my Telecaster into my Babyface?



A "vanilla" DI box won't really affect the tone.
A-Designs Reddi Box and Avalon U5 are examples of DI boxes that are designed to enhance the sound.
 
When recording near the computer, true single-coil pickups are going to pickup EM noise.
You can minimize it (shielding the pickup cavity, turn away from the computer when recording, etc)... but you can't completely eliminate it.
 
Rather than a higher-end DI, I'd checkout some "noise-less" pickup options.
This won't completely eliminate noise... but it'll stop most of it at the source.
 
MusicMan is using an active noise-reduction circuit in their single-coil guitars.  
Works surprisingly well...

Best Regards,

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sharke
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/04 19:26:45 (permalink)
Jim Roseberry
sharke
Have no experience with them. Would a good pro-quality DI box reduce buzzing and improve the general tone of my Telecaster into my Babyface?



A "vanilla" DI box won't really affect the tone.
A-Designs Reddi Box and Avalon U5 are examples of DI boxes that are designed to enhance the sound.
 
When recording near the computer, true single-coil pickups are going to pickup EM noise.
You can minimize it (shielding the pickup cavity, turn away from the computer when recording, etc)... but you can't completely eliminate it.
 
Rather than a higher-end DI, I'd checkout some "noise-less" pickup options.
This won't completely eliminate noise... but it'll stop most of it at the source.
 
MusicMan is using an active noise-reduction circuit in their single-coil guitars.  
Works surprisingly well...




I did think about looking into shielding, yeah. Any little improvement will help. I'm taking my Telecaster in for a setup soon so I will ask the guy what he can do. 

James
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Cactus Music
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/05 15:35:43 (permalink)
For my Strat, changing to some Fender Custom Shop noiseless signal coils totaly worked with sitting close to my workstation. It did not ruin the Strat tone and now it's almost dead quiet.  Many companies make noiseless signal coils. 
My G& L Astat ( Tele)  which had SC soap bars was also very noisy. I put some GFI humbuckers but it changed the tone to much so I'm looking into something better. Harder to find Soap Bar's. But there are many regular Tele upgrade Pups on the market. If I change the pickguard I can just use regular Tele Pup's. 

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#15
tlw
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/06 00:07:18 (permalink)
Fender's various generations of noiseless pickups are very much a love/hate thing.

I tried a set of vintage noiseless on a Mexican Strat which came with ceramic bar magnet pickups that were a bit like a poor copy of a P90 and buzzed like mad. I hated the vintage noiseless. Sounded a bit Strat-like but bland and even with the 1 Meg volume pot provided by Fender still sounded to me like the low output humbuckers they are and acked top end ring and bite. Then tried the Fender hot noiseless set and hated them. In the end I settled on Lace Sensor Hot Gold which cut the buzz down hugely while still having the vintage Strat openess, chime and quack, and drive pedals better than Fender's Strat single coils.

Just my personal preference...

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rsinger
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/06 13:59:17 (permalink)
I have EMGs in an AM BC Rich ST in a SSH configuration. They are OK, very quite. I have Bill Lawrence PUs to replace those, but haven't installed them yet. I put Joe Barden PUs in my strat and like those. A friend has Lace Sensors, but they have too much bite for my taste. As tlw says "personal preference".

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#17
ston
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/09 05:58:04 (permalink)
You don't need a DI box if you use the BF's high impedance input.
 
If you were trying to e.g. plug a guitar straight into a mixer input, then you'd need a DI box to perform the required impedance matching; without this you'll lose the high frequency response and volume of the guitar signal.
 
As a general rule, the impedance of an input should be the same as or higher than the impedance of the output.
 
Guitars with active pups generally provide a low(-er) impedance output, but it's still desirable to plug them into a high impedance input.
 
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Mystic38
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/15 11:39:07 (permalink)
a DI has questionable benefit in your case..
you can..
a) copper foil shield your cavities
b) change to noiseless pups
c) get a pod, modeling setup, preamp or other means to quietly record..
 
but, at the end of the day, it is far easier and cheaper to use your phone as a remote for Sonar and play in a position and orientation in your studio that mitigates noise..
 

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gswitz
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/16 11:12:01 (permalink)
For players of acoustic guitars, DIs can help with very high impedance.

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tagruvto
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/16 12:15:44 (permalink)
I agree with pretty much all of the above.  If your preamp accommodates both mic and instrument level signals it probably won't make a difference.  I say probably, because since you are playing a tele we are all thinking single coil pickups and that's usually where the noise sneaks in.  Do you get the  buzzing when playing through both the neck and pridge pickup (center position)?  If so, I would take a moment and diagnose that first.  Try a guitar with a humbucker and see what you get.
 
Also, if you play out at all, it can come in handy to have a DI in your gig bag for those occasions that it's needed.
There are plenty of quality inexpensive ones available these days.  I just picked up a Radial Stage Bug that is phantom powered for times that I use a Piezo pickup.
Also, a DI can get rid of hum from a ground loop, if that is an issue.

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jbow
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/24 19:12:04 (permalink)
This: http://www.ilitchelectronics.com/pgncs-t/

 
Lindy Fralin sells them too. http://www.fralinpickups.com/bpncs.asp
 
I have not used one so check it out... looks like they are the same thing for cheaper through LF.
 
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eph221
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Re: Would a DI box improve my guitar sound? 2016/03/24 21:38:25 (permalink)
Sharke,
 
This was recorded with a Neve RNDI, the new one for $269.  Not sure whether it's $269 of goodness, but it does warm it up a little.  The problem with these things is that it's so subjective.  Listen to the solo at the end, it gives a better idea than at the beginning.
 
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