X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly"

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Tripecac
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2011/08/18 00:11:11 (permalink)

X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly"

To edit velocities in the Piano Roll, I alt-left click and then drag through the velocity bars of the notes I want to change.

Often this ends up adjusting adjacent notes, not just the one the my mouse touches.

Has anyone else noticed this?  Is there a fix?

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    bvideo
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/18 00:21:28 (permalink)
    This follows the snap setting. Whatever velocity is within the snap distance of your mouse gets drawn. You could turn off snapping (F12) while you are editing velocity. Or maybe you could first select the notes you want to edit.
    #2
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/18 03:58:01 (permalink)
    If it's just single events/notes you want to adjust, then why bother dragging the actual velocity bar?
    Just highlight the note (in PRV) and type in the required value in the Control Bar.

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    Tripecac
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/18 04:05:17 (permalink)
    I draw velocities quickly, during playback. 

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    #4
    Tripecac
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/25 21:56:10 (permalink)
    The drawing anomaly is persistent, and very annoying. Has anyone else had problems drawing velocities using alt-drag?

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    #5
    Tripecac
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/25 22:02:24 (permalink)
    It seems that when I draw through a velocity, all the other velocities in the bar before it change to match it.

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    #6
    A1MixMan
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/25 22:27:42 (permalink)
    I use the smart tool to adjust individual note velocities. Quick and easy.

    A1
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    rbowser
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/25 23:09:10 (permalink)
    I do believe bvideo has the info you need.  I always turn the Grid off when editing in the PRV - not just the magnetism, but totally disable the Grid.  Then all your edits are totally free, not restricted to a snap.  You can easily change the length of just one velocity value that way, or a whole group by free-form drawing through a passage.

    It's silly to select a note, and type in values - why bother with that when you can do it in 1/10th the time just drawing in the velocity pane.

    RB

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    #8
    kelsoz
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/25 23:51:53 (permalink)
    post edited by kelsoz - 2011/08/26 07:30:57

    kelsoz

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    rbowser
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/26 00:18:22 (permalink)
    kelsoz


    Sorry.  For me, alt-lmb with ST adjusts midi velocities in the velocity lane perfectly - grid on or off.


    Ah, you're right- this same thing came up the other night on another velocity thread--I keep forgetting that in X1 you don't need to turn the Grid off for editing velocities and for getting a full range draw happening for MIDI controllers, the way you do in 8.5.

    But not sure what "alt-lmb" means, Kelsoz?

    RB

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    lorneyb2
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/26 00:31:52 (permalink)
    L(eft) M(ouse)B(utton)

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    #11
    Piers66
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/26 05:55:08 (permalink)
    rbowser

    <snip>

     You can easily change the length of just one velocity value that way, or a whole group by free-form drawing through a passage.

    It's silly to select a note, and type in values - why bother with that when you can do it in 1/10th the time just drawing in the velocity pane.

    RB
    Hello,
     
    That's fine, unless you want to change the velocity of just one note in a chord, as the velocity bars of all notes played simultaneously are superimposed. As a pianist I remember playing pieces (a Chopin prelude comes to mind) where I would play the middle note of a series of chords louder to highlight that harmony line.
    In this case, I would use the select tool to higlight the notes I wanted to modify in the PRV, and then switch to the freeform tool to draw in the revised velocities in the controller pane.

    It's still a bit fiddly, but seems to work Ok for me.
     
    Piers.

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    #12
    GlennKay
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/26 06:35:30 (permalink)
    You can also enable the setting PRV->Notes->SHow Velocity On Selected Notes Only. This allows you to lasso the midi notes for which you want to edit velocities, and only the corresponding velocities will show up in the controller pane (assuming you're working with those panes enabled).

    Regards
    Glenn

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    #13
    kelsoz
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/26 07:15:11 (permalink)
    post edited by kelsoz - 2011/08/26 07:32:10

    kelsoz

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    rbowser
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/26 12:12:16 (permalink)
    Piers66


     
    ...That's fine, unless you want to change the velocity of just one note in a chord...

    Right, Piers - Needing to change the velocity of a single note in a chord is the only time I right click to get to the properties, and then I type in a new value which I know will be good relative to the other notes.

    In a video tute I saw a different approach to this - temporarily dragging a note to one side so its velocity can be edited visually.  I can see how that could be good, since the visual comparison between all notes in a chord would be available.

    RB

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    #15
    Tripecac
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/26 14:13:57 (permalink)
    PRV->Notes->SHow Velocity On Selected Notes Only
    I have this option enabled, and it is working fine.

    The part that is broken is the actual drawing. Sometimes when I alt-drag through a velocity line, lines other than that velocity get changed. It's clearly a bug, not just inconvenience.

    I recorded a short video to show the behavior:
    http://tripalot.com/issue...20drawing%20fiddly.avi

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    GlennKay
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/26 16:21:13 (permalink)
    Weird...never seen anything like that before.

    Did you check whether snap setting resolution thing that bvideo mentioned up top? (Not at the studio so i can't try out that behvior myself).

    Regards
    Glenn

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    #17
    Tripecac
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/30 21:58:31 (permalink)
    Yes, I can confirm that the velocity drawing follows the Track View snap settings, which are currently set to 1 measure. If I turn off Track View snap, the bug goes away.

    Is there a way to get velocity drawing to ignore snap settings, so I that I don't have to toggle snap on and off?

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    #18
    GlennKay
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/31 13:16:45 (permalink)
    One thing you can do is use hotkey shortcuts to control the snap setting resolutions, which makes the process quite a bit faster.

    For instance, i've got SHIFT+1 for whole notes, SHIFT+6 for 16th notes, SHIFT+3 for 32nd notes (i think most of these are default keybindings), so it's quite fast and easy to change to a snap value resolution fine enough to allow easy velocity editing.

    Certainly a lot qucker than mousing over to the appropriate menu in which snap can be turned off. (Then again, maybe you're turning snap on and off using a keybinding -- F12 is the key i use to do this, though i can't remember whether this is a default keybinding assignment.) 

    Regards
    Glenn

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    #19
    brundlefly
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/31 14:40:08 (permalink)
    rbowser


    Piers66



    ...That's fine, unless you want to change the velocity of just one note in a chord...

    Right, Piers - Needing to change the velocity of a single note in a chord is the only time I right click to get to the properties, and then I type in a new value which I know will be good relative to the other notes.

    In a video tute I saw a different approach to this - temporarily dragging a note to one side so its velocity can be edited visually.  I can see how that could be good, since the visual comparison between all notes in a chord would be available.
    I haven't followed this whole thread, but can't you just use the Velocity hotspot on the one note (or selected notes) to do this, rather than trying to draw it as a "controller"? Even if you can't clearly see the velocity tail because it's aligned with other notes of a chord, the velocity tool shows the value in the tool tip that comes up with it.



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    #20
    Tripecac
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/31 15:53:43 (permalink)
    Okay, I'll restate it again, in case my method of editing velocities is atypical...

    I find that the fastest way to change velocities on single or multiple notes is to alt-drag through the velocity bars in the velocity pane. That way, I don't have to try to drag the top of a note in the main piano roll, something which is hard to do on short notes, especially during playback. Since I often edit during playback, editing speed is key.

    In Sonar 8.5.3, alt-dragging through velocities works independently of snap settings, which makes sense, since snap pertains to timing and not velocity.

    However, in Sonar X1, alt-dragging is affected by snap. This, to me, makes no sense. If you watch that video I posted, doesn't it look like a bug? http://tripalot.com/issue...20drawing%20fiddly.avi

    Why should I have to disable snap in order to get alt-drag to work like it did in previous versions of Sonar?
    post edited by Tripecac - 2011/08/31 16:03:34

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    #21
    brundlefly
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/31 16:09:04 (permalink)
    Yes. That seems a little weird. I can replicate it, but not quite as consistently as you are showing, and only when both Snap and "Select Controllers Along with Notes" is enabled. Whether it's intended or not, the inconsistency definitely makes it seem buggy.

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    Tripecac
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/31 16:13:05 (permalink)
    For me, it also happens when "Select Controllers Along with Notes" is disabled.

    tripecac.com
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    #23
    brundlefly
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/08/31 16:19:10 (permalink)
    Yes, it seems I was wrong about the "Select Notes with Controllers" tie-in. It's just so inconsistent that I couldn't reliably make it happen without that being enabled at first. It seems to be a little more likely when dragging right to left as in your video and when untouched notes are close to the snap grid, but that's not consistent, either.

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    Tripecac
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2011/09/05 14:53:25 (permalink)
    I'm still getting this problem all the time.  Very aggravating.  I don't want to have to disable snap every time I edit velocities, because I do both a lot.

    I've therefore filed this as a bug.  Hopefully Cakewalk will agree that it is a bug and not a "feature".



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    #25
    Tripecac
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2012/01/07 15:04:49 (permalink)
    On 23 December 2011, I received an email from Cakewalk indicating that the bug reported by this thread is now "fixed":
    The status of your problem report has updated to "Fixed" with the following notes:

    This issue has been resolved by our development team. We do not have any additional details regarding this exact fix other then that it has been resolved. Please note this is an automated message.

    We recommend grabbing the latest update for your product by visiting http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/prod.aspx and checking out the downloads area.
    I've been checking for updates (namely, X1d) but it's still not out yet.

    So does this means:

    a) The bug will be fixed in X1d when it [eventually] comes out.

    b) Cakewalk has decided that the bug is already "fixed" in X1c and won't be doing any more work on it

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    #26
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2012/01/07 15:46:22 (permalink)
    In my experience those mails tend to suggest that it's already fixed in one of the releases, sometimes not the most recent one but one of the older ones.

    Having said that I don't see the behaviour you are describing. Are you on X1c/Expanded and the latest quickfix?
    #27
    John T
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2012/01/07 15:50:32 (permalink)
    I'm pretty sure that means it's coming in a future update. Those mails are automated, and I would guess they get sent when QA certify a bug as fixed.

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    #28
    fessorman
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2012/01/08 04:43:22 (permalink)
    Isn't this fixed in the recent quickfix?

    2+4 ~ 5?!? Why don't I get the math behind DSP programming?!

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    #29
    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:X1 - Drawing velocities in Piano Roll is "fiddly" 2012/01/08 05:38:34 (permalink)
    fessorman


    Isn't this fixed in the recent quickfix?


    Very possibly, I'm not seeing the same behaviour, but I don't think I ever have with velocity. Other controllers yes, but not velocity.
    #30
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