X1/Kontakt 5 Tip O' The Day...

This may have been discussed before but since I just discovered it myownself I thought I'd hip anyone who isn't.
 
One problem for folks using Kontakt in Sonar is that trying to route individual Kontakt instruments onto seprate X1 audio channels has always been a royal pain due to NI's woeful, non-intuitive internal mixer and how you assigned outputs with it. I always had a Kontakt 4 track folder template already built and instantiated in my "Normal" template that had eight separate channels of midi/audio and already had Kontakts mixer appropriately setup within that themplate so I'd never have to worry about fiddling with Kontakts mixer routings. I recently got Kontakt 5 and just supposed I'd have to do the same PITA process of assigning my K5 outputs again and was in the process of doing that very thing today when I discovered something in the "presets/batch configuration" tab in K5's mixer dialog. If you click that...then click batch processes...you'll see a selection that says "split all instruments on channel one to separate outputs" (or words to that effect). Just click that and...BOOM...every individual instrument you've got loaded in K5 gets it's own new audio channel already consecutively numbered and sending out same to X1s corresponding K5 channels. One click. I couldn't believe it. But I tried it...and it friggin works!! So now, just build a K5 multichannel template in X1 (Tres Easy), then load up whatever instruments you want in Kontakt 5, then just click the magic button. Thanks NI!
 
For those who already knew this and are reminded once again that I am a dimwitted johnny-come-lately to almost all things Sonar...carry on.
 
For everyone else...as John Hodgeman would say..."you're welcome":-)

. . . 'bout how much is my upgrade from Kontakt 4 to Kontakt 5 costing these days ?
. . . or is this the free Kontakt player you're talking about, or a "full" version?

I find the NI website quite difficult to find answers to simple questions about upgrades / updates.

I had just assumed the reason why I can't establish proper muti-track drum routings in Sonar X1, is because
I have a free (with limitations) Kontakt player version.

I'm also experiencing the huge CPU sucking sound that Kontakt has within Sonar X1, and perhaps I'll have to wait until I upgrade to a more powerful computer to use it to full potential, to push the "magic button"

yorolpal

 This may have been discussed before but since I just discovered it myownself I thought I'd hip anyone who isn't.
 
One problem for folks using Kontakt in Sonar is that trying to route individual Kontakt instruments onto seprate X1 audio channels has always been a royal pain due to NI's woeful, non-intuitive internal mixer and how you assigned outputs with it. I always had a Kontakt 4 track folder template already built and instantiated in my "Normal" template that had eight separate channels of midi/audio and already had Kontakts mixer appropriately setup within that themplate so I'd never have to worry about fiddling with Kontakts mixer routings. I recently got Kontakt 5 and just supposed I'd have to do the same PITA process of assigning my K5 outputs again and was in the process of doing that very thing today when I discovered something in the "presets/batch configuration" tab in K5's mixer dialog. If you click that...then click batch processes...you'll see a selection that says "split all instruments on channel one to separate outputs" (or words to that effect). Just click that and...BOOM...every individual instrument you've got loaded in K5 gets it's own new audio channel already consecutively numbered and sending out same to X1s corresponding K5 channels. One click. I couldn't believe it. But I tried it...and it friggin works!! So now, just build a K5 multichannel template in X1 (Tres Easy), then load up whatever instruments you want in Kontakt 5, then just click the magic button. Thanks NI!
 
For those who already knew this and are reminded once again that I am a dimwitted johnny-come-lately to almost all things Sonar...carry on.
 
For everyone else...as John Hodgeman would say..."you're welcome":-)

Sounds like you like your new Kontakt5.  Thanks for this short cut.  I will get v5 when the new Komplete9 is released.  

jkleban


Yoropal....

I have stopped this practice and leave my default KONTAKT outputs set to individual outs but I only load the first SONAR channel when I load the plugin.  I then add as I go along additional SONAR audio tracks (In the KONTAKT folder) as I need them.  I have found that unused audio tracks from KONTAKT takes a TON of CPU power to do nothing (that is, I wasn't using them).

But, glad you made this discovery.  For some reason, I don't remember this routing to ever have been complicated but I agree with the number of questions on this forum about this, it must not be intuitive.

Jim

Hi Jim!
 
I just wanted to say that I measured and tried under following conditions = INTEL CPU, Windows 7 x64, NVIDIA Graphic, SONAR X1 x64.
 
 
There are no difference in use of CPU in use of 1 stereo Channel or 32 Stereo channels + AUX channels.
There are no differnece in use of CPU on playing on several Kontakt instruments routed to 1 single Stereo Channel or routed 32 Stereo channels + 4 AUX Channels too in SONAR X1. I use all 64-channels myself
 
I can only speak under the conditions of = Windows 7 x64 and SONAR X1 x64bit.
 
 
In other OS and x32bit softwares like example Xp32 the measured "CPU in use" maybe completely different result. It's recommended that use Windows 7 X64bit or later and a X64bit DAW host working with any sample based instrument.
 
 
Hope it helps!

I have been using tip of the day for a little while, and no extra hit on
The CPU for me either.
Although It does take a little longer to load up, but compared to
time wasted before that's just fine.


Garry

jkleban


OK  Freddie....maybe it is not CPU but the AUDIO suffers... longer tails play and increased stuttering when starting play... taking the unused tracks OUT,,, greatly improves this situation (for me)... I just assumed it was CPU but perhaps not.

I too am using WIN 7 x64 and X1 x64 with 8GB and an 8 thread (quad processor).

And with the default audio paths set to all, it takes like 1 minute to insert an instance of K5 if you don't chose first audio track in the dialog window.

Jim

Okay and very interesting Jim!
 
It can be like you say the audio buffer. I would use 512 buffer or above, that is my recommendation. You don't need to get any faster/lower then 512 buffer, 9 ms. Often and many better audio interfaces has and work in internal Zero latency compensation-mode. You don't need to go lower because that means that you don't hear any latency at all anyway. The audiointerface take care of the latency.  Its no problems playing on software intruments in 9-16ms either. Its faster enough.  It actually can't stream any samples faster from the a conventional hard drive either. Above 1024 is not recommended because then you start notice the latency.
 
 
1min? Sounds very long. Takes me approximy like 2-3 sec to get all the 32 Stereo channels up running in SONAR X1. I use a INTEL SSD on the WINDOWS C-disk if that has anything to do with it? When I used a conventional hard drive for Windows C-program it never took me 1 min either? Perhaps it took just a few seconds so it seem something strange going on in your setup if it takes that long?
 

 

Glyn Barnes


Thanks, maybe I will get more out of K5 than I thought. I caved in and bought the 187.5 Euro crossgrade from Kontakt 4 to Komplete 5

Its the best sampler in world...so you should use it! You mean Komplete 8 right not 5?

yorolpal


...you'll see a selection that says "split all instruments on channel one to separate outputs" 

Hi yorolpal,


That functionality actually got added to Kontakt 4 around version 4.2 IIRC. It's definitely in 4.2.4. Just thought I'd mention that in case someone thought they might have to update to version 5 to get that feature. I'm still resisting the update as I don't really need any of its new features at this time. 


Regards,
Don

Freddie...

I have the Octa Capture and when I load ALL audio tracks when loading KONTAKT I can watch the progress bar slowly move... maybe 45 - 60 sec.... seems like an hour though :-)

I guess everyone's hardware is different and we all have are own personal tweaks to what works best... I still use CNTL - S in PRV editing out of habit... this used to cause a SONAR NOT RESPONDING issue...

I will be the first to admit that I don't really understand all the parameters that can be set in SONAR to setup one's system but I know some of the most known ones.

But anyway, just to comment on KONTAKT, it is by far the best RAMPLER I have ever used and it has tremendous 3rd party support for some really great, interesting instruments.

Jim

My thanks to Yorolpal for the lesson and Peregrin for the headsup on the upgrade! This VST might actually become useful now Brammer

Blogman


Here's a link to an earlier post of mine about multi-tracking the abbey road drums out of Kontact in Sonar. http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?high=&m=2486173&mpage=1#2495409 It's not that hard to assign the ins and outs of Kontact. Each instance will have your basic 16 midi channels that you can send from sonar to each multi-timb part in Kontact. Then, in Kontact you can set up multiple audio outs so everything is separated for mixdown. It's easy!

Yes it was easy...once you understood NI's odd nomenclature as to output channels and menus.  I can tell you without hesitation that anyone who used to persuse the Kontakt forum at NI saw plenty of "how in the heck do you route separate channels to your DAW"  and "why does Kontakt not just say output 1, output 2 instead of channel two output left 7 output right 8 and words like channel not connected and such.  For instance, if you've ever used EZDrummer you simply go into it's mixer and on the first (or any channel I suppose) channel choose multitrack.  You're done.  All EZD outputs are now assigned appropriately to receiving channels in your DAW.  Now that's easy;-)
 

Hey digidan ol pal.  I'd suggest going back up to Freddies step by step and doing it that way.  Once you got that set as your default you'll never have to worry with it again.  Setting up a "Kontakt Folder" is not that hard...but it is tedious.  With Freddie's method Kontakt will always load up in "multitrack" mode and you can then just add as many audiot channels in X2 that you need for your project.  My Kontakt Folder in Sonar has 8 midi channels and 8 corresponding audio channels dedicated to Kontakt.  Hope that helps.

You hear sound from audio tracks...not midi tracks.  They're just telling the instrument what to play.

Thanks for your reply Yorolpal,

I understand the sound must come from the audio tracks, but aren't you supposed to hear the sound of the corrosponding midi channel?

For example: when I click on the track with Midi Channel 1 in Sonar I hear the instrument from Kontakt with Midi ch. 1 but when I click on the track with Midi channel 2 in Sonar, I don't the hear the instrument with Midi Channel 2 in Kontakt. 

Thanks