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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 19:10:38
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UnderTow
giankap
amiller
Very helpful info guys. What do you use, when mastering, to pump up the volume?
Definately L2 or L3 form waves.
L3 is just horrid and tends to destroy mixes. The L2 is OK but has long been surpassed by much better an/or cheaper competitors like Voxengo Elephant 3, iZotope Ozone's limiter, PSP Xenon, FabFilter L-Pro, Sonnox Limiter, etc etc
Or, you could just clip your converters. 
UnderTow
I always figured I just couldn't figure L3 out, but if you have to use L3 you might as well use Boost11.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 19:32:56
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I hope this question is on topic, but do any of you use a 'sub master' bus? And if so where would you place an MB compressor with a sub master in the signal chain? On the sub master bus, or the master bus?
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 19:38:43
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HumbleNoise
I hope this question is on topic, but do any of you use a 'sub master' bus? And if so where would you place an MB compressor with a sub master in the signal chain? On the sub master bus, or the master bus?
What is a sub-master bus and/or how do you use it?
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 19:44:59
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A1MixMan
Brandon, you sound hungry with all this talk of cooking with salt and sausages. Damn, now I'M hungry...
mmmmm....sausages.... 
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
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HumbleNoise
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 19:53:28
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Brandon I'm a novice/intermediate so I am gathering info from a LOT of different sources and in one video I watched, the engineer suggested everything be routed to a Sub Master bus where all fades and effects were processed before the Master, then the signal was sent, from the Sub Master to the Master for final limiting and mix down. I wish I knew more about the actual logistics but someone out there explained the need for a sub master and it sounded good to me.
I kinda assumed it was something many were familiar with? But perhaps not and any more info re: a sub master bus much appreciated.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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HumbleNoise
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 20:02:04
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Wow, Just did a google search and found my original question from above. OT, of course, but that's a pretty good search engine.  Maybe it'll catch on.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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John
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 20:10:36
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HumbleNoise
Brandon I'm a novice/intermediate so I am gathering info from a LOT of different sources and in one video I watched, the engineer suggested everything be routed to a Sub Master bus where all fades and effects were processed before the Master, then the signal was sent, from the Sub Master to the Master for final limiting and mix down. I wish I knew more about the actual logistics but someone out there explained the need for a sub master and it sounded good to me.
I kinda assumed it was something many were familiar with? But perhaps not and any more info re: a sub master bus much appreciated.
I think you have answered your own question. The LP would go on the master buss as you describe what a sub master is. Though if you need to automate the LP you might want to place it on the sub master. LOL One neat thing about this forum we all learn something. I vaguely remember hearing about a sub master but totally forgot what it was. I can't recall ever needing a sub master buss in Sonar.
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amiller
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 20:15:19
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bitflipper
amiller, it sounds like you're just getting your feet wet with mastering. If that's the case then Ozone may be your best bet - it's specifically targeted for users who want good results but don't quite know what they're doing yet. That describes most of us here!
Yes, I guess that's true, I am new to mastering especially with plugins. Here's my deal. I originally got into recording because my band needed a demo CD to present to club owners for potential jobs. I got tired of the bar scene and now I write and record my own originals...much more satisfying. My songs are instrumental Rock oriented pieces. So far they include bass, drums, guitars and minimal keys. The only MIDI I use is for Superior Drums. The rest are real world instruments. I've been recording, mixing and mastering on a stand alone VS2480 for about 10 years or so. My music is my passion and hobby. I switched to a PC based DAW a few months or more back. I'm enjoying the heck out of the DAW and especially SONAR 8.5.3. I'm learning to transfer my knowledge from the VS2480 environment over to the PC DAW. I ask a lot of questions more for opinion than anything else...I'm always curious what the other guy is doing and how he gets from point A to point B compared to how I do. Actually, I think my mixes don't sound all that bad but I'm ALWAYS looking for a way to improve them and get them closer to what the "big guys" are doing in the "million dollar studios." I've never had the privilege of recording in a "professional" studio. So, please keep the info coming. I love this kind of sharing conversation!!!
RAWK!!! . SONAR Platinum: 2017.10
System specs: Purrrfect Audio: http://www.studiocat.com/open_cart/ • Case Silent Mid Tower • Power-Supply 600w quiet • Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz • RAM 32GB DDR3/1600 • OS drive 1TB HD • Audio drive 2TB HD • Samples drive 1 3TB HD • Burner 24x DVD/RW • Video HD4600 • Add TI chipset Firewire For all others • Operating System Windows 10 x64 Home Edition . MOTU 828 mkII . Lucid 9624 A/D . Millennia HV-3b pre . Dual 24" Widescreen Monitors
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 20:17:43
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HumbleNoise
Brandon I'm a novice/intermediate so I am gathering info from a LOT of different sources and in one video I watched, the engineer suggested everything be routed to a Sub Master bus where all fades and effects were processed before the Master, then the signal was sent, from the Sub Master to the Master for final limiting and mix down. I wish I knew more about the actual logistics but someone out there explained the need for a sub master and it sounded good to me.
I kinda assumed it was something many were familiar with? But perhaps not and any more info re: a sub master bus much appreciated.
I see. It sounds to me like a hold-over from older DAW mixing architecturesor something. I can't think of why it would be necessary, but it could depend on how one works and what there mix architecture is like. You could certainly do it in SONAR but it would just be another bus in the path, which doesn't necessarily hurt anything at all, but I don't see how it would be useful or necessary - at least in SONAR's framework where buses are entirely flexible. FWIW: I leave my master nus at unity gain and get all the gain staging proper prior to it hitting the master bus. Perhaps wanting to adjust the volume of the sub-master is why someone would want a sub-master bus, but I would use input gain on the bus instead or reduce the volume of the buses feeding the master, etc. In short, I can't see how an additional bus prior to the master bus would be useful in SONAR's mixing architecture. If you find out any more, please share.
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
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Ham N Egz
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 20:18:40
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like this'  on the console view all the buses to the right of the buss with the speaker icon are" sub buses which mean they "feed" the main buss those "sub" busses are receiving a send from the respective track instruments /vocals etc
Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
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amiller
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 20:21:20
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Well, I send all of my drums to a sub prior to going to the master so that I can raise or lower the gain of all of the drums at once. Maybe that's what he meant by sub-master?
RAWK!!! . SONAR Platinum: 2017.10
System specs: Purrrfect Audio: http://www.studiocat.com/open_cart/ • Case Silent Mid Tower • Power-Supply 600w quiet • Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz • RAM 32GB DDR3/1600 • OS drive 1TB HD • Audio drive 2TB HD • Samples drive 1 3TB HD • Burner 24x DVD/RW • Video HD4600 • Add TI chipset Firewire For all others • Operating System Windows 10 x64 Home Edition . MOTU 828 mkII . Lucid 9624 A/D . Millennia HV-3b pre . Dual 24" Widescreen Monitors
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Ham N Egz
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 20:24:31
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I think youre thinking the old analog console mixers 32X8X2 where the individual channles can be sent to one of the 8 sub s which are then sent to the two or one
that's live mixing grat for grouping things and and in mixing down can find a use
Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
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Kroneborge
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 21:40:40
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A1MixMan
bitflipper
amiller, it sounds like you're just getting your feet wet with mastering. If that's the case then Ozone may be your best bet - it's specifically targeted for users who want good results but don't quite know what they're doing yet. That describes most of us here!
I have Ozone and it scares the hell out of me. groove3.com has a new 3 1\2 hour tutorial on Ozone that I might pickup.
Brandon, you sound hungry with all this talk of cooking with salt and sausages. Damn, now I'M hungry...
I'm going through the ozone video's right now and learning so much. For example, how to use EQ matching is so desired, or how to apply mastering reverb just to the sides, and not to the main mix. Plus a whole lot more. Highly recommended if you do your own mastering IMO
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Bub 
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 21:47:31
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I like Ozone's mastering reverb, but man is it a resource hog. Whew. It increases my CPU usage by 30%, that's a lot!
I didn't know you could apply it to just the sides, I'll have to check in to that!
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Kroneborge
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 21:53:36
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You can actually do that with most of the effects in Ozone 4 I think.
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John
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 21:59:09
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Ozone is my favorite plugin of all time. Although I really like the Nomad Factory SC 226 channel strip. I got it in a no brainer deal for $20. Best $20 I ever spent. Though Ozone is always in a mix some where. BTW I don't see that much CPU usage with it. In the past I usually used it on a exported mix to stereo in my mastering template. Don't need to do that now. Multi core ya have to love them!
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Kroneborge
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 22:37:45
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I've been using the Alloy a lot too. It's a great little channel strip.
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HumbleNoise
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 23:23:35
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I think that any bus that feeds the master can be referred to as a sub master but what I'm thinking about had a specific 'sub master' bus set up for a very specific reason but I can't remember the details. Had something to do with fades applied to that sub master instead of the master, or maybe the final fade applied to that sub master instead of the master giving more control or? It made sense when I saw/heard it but I should have paid more attention. I believe it was on a Groove 3 video but it's long gone from memory now. If I learn more I'll post.
Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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FastBikerBoy
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/17 04:14:31
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Here's a link to a great thread that links to a mixing template that utilises a couple of "sub-master busses" one for the left channel one for the right. It's probably a little dated now in some of the plug-ins it uses but it was a big help to me when I first started mixing. I'm sure even experienced mixers may pick up something from it. I've cherry picked a few ideas from it. it's well worth a look IMHO.
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trimph1
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/17 06:33:22
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Thanks guys for all these great tips!!
The space you have will always be exceeded in direct proportion to the amount of stuff you have...Thornton's Postulate. Bushpianos
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Chregg
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/17 07:07:38
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  music man how are getting sonars gui looking like that, am missing something
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Ham N Egz
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/17 08:31:44
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Chregg
music man how are getting sonars gui looking like that, am missing something
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Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
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amiller
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/17 08:43:28
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It's great to see so many informative, helpful and positive replies...this is what a user forum should be. There's lots of pro Ozone responses...I guess I'll have to breakdown and pick up Ozone 4 Thanks!
RAWK!!! . SONAR Platinum: 2017.10
System specs: Purrrfect Audio: http://www.studiocat.com/open_cart/ • Case Silent Mid Tower • Power-Supply 600w quiet • Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz • RAM 32GB DDR3/1600 • OS drive 1TB HD • Audio drive 2TB HD • Samples drive 1 3TB HD • Burner 24x DVD/RW • Video HD4600 • Add TI chipset Firewire For all others • Operating System Windows 10 x64 Home Edition . MOTU 828 mkII . Lucid 9624 A/D . Millennia HV-3b pre . Dual 24" Widescreen Monitors
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Ham N Egz
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/17 09:05:14
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amiller
It's great to see so many informative, helpful and positive replies...this is what a user forum should be. There's lots of pro Ozone responses...I guess I'll have to breakdown and pick up Ozone 4
Thanks!
THERE IS A DEMO HERE you can try before you buy!!!
Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
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amiller
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/17 09:20:13
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musicman100
amiller
It's great to see so many informative, helpful and positive replies...this is what a user forum should be. There's lots of pro Ozone responses...I guess I'll have to breakdown and pick up Ozone 4
Thanks!
THERE IS A DEMO HERE
you can try before you buy!!!
Awesome...you RAWK!!!
RAWK!!! . SONAR Platinum: 2017.10
System specs: Purrrfect Audio: http://www.studiocat.com/open_cart/ • Case Silent Mid Tower • Power-Supply 600w quiet • Haswell CPU 4790k @ 4.4GHz • RAM 32GB DDR3/1600 • OS drive 1TB HD • Audio drive 2TB HD • Samples drive 1 3TB HD • Burner 24x DVD/RW • Video HD4600 • Add TI chipset Firewire For all others • Operating System Windows 10 x64 Home Edition . MOTU 828 mkII . Lucid 9624 A/D . Millennia HV-3b pre . Dual 24" Widescreen Monitors
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Chregg
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/17 09:20:19
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FORUM MEMBER PANUPs MODS HERE
dont know how to uninstall original mod, help lol
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tarsier
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/17 10:19:55
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For loudness "maximizing" I find that the PX-64 percussion strip is terrific. Enable both of the saturations, and adjust to taste. Its compressor can be used to tame peaks and the eq can smooth things out.
I found the Tube Leveler to be too harsh I never use it. But the PX-64 is nice, give it a try.
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Ham N Egz
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/17 10:32:12
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Chregg
FORUM MEMBER PANUPs MODS HERE
dont know how to uninstall original mod, help lol
did you copy your ORIGINAL factory DLL somewhere backed up ? just delete the panup dll, COPY( don't move, your original dll back to the folder location, then run the new panup program .
Green Acres is the place to be I dont twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram,linkedin,tumble,pinterest,flick, blah blah,lets have an old fashioned conversation!
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Chregg
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/17 10:35:26
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musicman got it, ran as admin, cheers
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sven450
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/17 10:49:10
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Here's a link to a great thread that links to a mixing template that utilises a couple of "sub-master busses" one for the left channel one for the right. I also found this template incredibly useful, and it does use a "submaster" that is routed from another "submaster" that separates the two channels. I have no idea if it actually adds width or separation (in my head it does), but I've been using some form of that template for a while now, and there is a lot of other stuff in there that it really helped me learn to mix.
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