amiller
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X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
So, where do you guys put the LP-64 Multiband Compressor in the signal chain? Do you send the output of your individual tracks to a master buss and then insert the LP-64 MP on that buss, or, do you bounce all of your tracks down to a stereo pair and then insert the LP-64 MP there? What's the difference and why would you use one method over the other. OR, maybe you have a totally different approach?
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Bub 
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 12:23:40
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I only use it when I'm mastering a project. I never use it on individual tracks, although there is nothing wrong with doing that.
I always put it on the master buss (with all other tracks and buses going to it)and it's always the next to last plug-in in the FX bin, the only one after it is the Boost 11 Limiter.
I personally prefer the Sonitus Multi Band Compressor though and don't use the LP-64 anymore and I always adjust my volumes so Boost 11 is hardly being used. It colors the sound too much for my taste if you have it running too hot.
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amiller
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 12:49:51
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Bub
... I personally prefer the Sonitus Multi Band Compressor though and don't use the LP-64...
Why do you prefer the Sonitus over the LP-64?
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LANEY
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 13:24:55
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It all depends on the sound I am looking for that particular song. Sometime in the FX on a track and sometimes on the drum buss. It really depends on what the sound is I am going for on that song.
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chuckebaby
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 13:30:51
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Bub
I only use it when I'm mastering a project. I never use it on individual tracks, although there is nothing wrong with doing that.
I always put it on the master buss (with all other tracks and buses going to it)and it's always the next to last plug-in in the FX bin, the only one after it is the Boost 11 Limiter.
I personally prefer the Sonitus Multi Band Compressor though and don't use the LP-64 anymore and I always adjust my volumes so Boost 11 is hardly being used. It colors the sound too much for my taste if you have it running too hot.
i feel the same way...i love boost 11 as much as the next guy but when you use it more than you should..its start to breathe.
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Guest
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 15:28:27
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IMHO multiband compression has no place in the mixing process and Boost11 has no place in any process. By the time Boost11 starts to do something it is unbearable.
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Bub
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 15:50:06
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I agree with 10Ten, it just adds a kind of harshness or glassiness is the only way I can describe it. That's why if I use it, I make sure the signal going in to it is hot and I only have to adjust the input knob a db or two if that.
I like the limiter in Ozone 4 but I'm sure there's even better than that out there.
To answer amiller ... I just prefer the way the Sonitus multi band sounds. I like the way it's laid out. It's basically 5 of the single Sonitus Comp's lumped in to one. I keep going back to the Sonitus effects. I still use the reverb, comp, multi comp, eq, modulator.
Bub.
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chuckebaby
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 16:08:28
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i like the sonnitus effects as well.and ten brings up a pretty good point as far as does boost 11 really even belong in the proccess.i used it alot when i had home studio because i was limited for plug ins.but its a little useless now though i can see where buds comming from as i feel the same ,run it hot and use it sparingly.
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amiller
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 16:19:36
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Bub
...
To answer amiller ... I just prefer the way the Sonitus multi band sounds. I like the way it's laid out. It's basically 5 of the single Sonitus Comp's lumped in to one. I keep going back to the Sonitus effects. I still use the reverb, comp, multi comp, eq, modulator.
Bub.
I'll have to give the Sonitus multi band a try tonight...thanks
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bitflipper
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 16:23:05
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The LP-64 Multiband is meant to be used on the master bus, and generally goes before your mastering limiter to bring up average levels before going in to the limiter.
It is useful for bass-heavy productions such as dance music, where very hot kick levels trigger the compressor causing other instruments to wimp out. Compressing the low frequencies separately from everything else helps avoid that problem.
The LP-64 is a linear-phase effect, which means it introduces a lot of latency and it is pretty CPU-intensive. It should therefore only be used during the mastering process, after raising your buffer sizes. It should not be used as a track effect. If you need a multiband on individual tracks, use the Sonitus Multiband. IMO it is a better compressor anyway, and certainly a much lighter load on your CPU.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Ham N Egz
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 16:29:37
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bitflipper
The LP-64 Multiband is meant to be used on the master bus, and generally goes before your mastering limiter to bring up average levels before going in to the limiter.
It is useful for bass-heavy productions such as dance music, where very hot kick levels trigger the compressor causing other instruments to wimp out. Compressing the low frequencies separately from everything else helps avoid that problem.
The LP-64 is a linear-phase effect, which means it introduces a lot of latency and it is pretty CPU-intensive. It should therefore only be used during the mastering process, after raising your buffer sizes. It should not be used as a track effect. If you need a multiband on individual tracks, use the Sonitus Multiband. IMO it is a better compressor anyway, and certainly a much lighter load on your CPU.
A very lucid response
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amiller
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 16:31:57
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bitflipper
The LP-64 Multiband is meant to be used on the master bus, and generally goes before your mastering limiter to bring up average levels before going in to the limiter.
It is useful for bass-heavy productions such as dance music, where very hot kick levels trigger the compressor causing other instruments to wimp out. Compressing the low frequencies separately from everything else helps avoid that problem.
The LP-64 is a linear-phase effect, which means it introduces a lot of latency and it is pretty CPU-intensive. It should therefore only be used during the mastering process, after raising your buffer sizes. It should not be used as a track effect. If you need a multiband on individual tracks, use the Sonitus Multiband. IMO it is a better compressor anyway, and certainly a much lighter load on your CPU.
So, if you had to pick between the two, which one would you use in the mastering process...Sonitus or LP-64? OR, do you think neither are suitable for mastering?
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Guest
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 17:01:10
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amiller
bitflipper
The LP-64 Multiband is meant to be used on the master bus, and generally goes before your mastering limiter to bring up average levels before going in to the limiter.
It is useful for bass-heavy productions such as dance music, where very hot kick levels trigger the compressor causing other instruments to wimp out. Compressing the low frequencies separately from everything else helps avoid that problem.
The LP-64 is a linear-phase effect, which means it introduces a lot of latency and it is pretty CPU-intensive. It should therefore only be used during the mastering process, after raising your buffer sizes. It should not be used as a track effect. If you need a multiband on individual tracks, use the Sonitus Multiband. IMO it is a better compressor anyway, and certainly a much lighter load on your CPU.
So, if you had to pick between the two, which one would you use in the mastering process...Sonitus or LP-64? OR, do you think neither are suitable for mastering?
Either would be fine, but if you mixed it and find that you need to use multiband compression, you might just need to remix.
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teego
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 17:08:42
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I used the tube leveler in place of Boost11 and it produced the same results with a warmer sound and no breathing ! I don't really understand all that it does yet so I was experimenting with settings and letting my ears be the judge but I liked it..Comparing waveforms with Boost against the Tube Leveler there was very little difference. I miss my Ozone though!
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giankap
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 17:18:43
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10Ten
Either would be fine, but if you mixed it and find that you need to use multiband compression, you might just need to remix.
I also agree with 10ten in this one. imo when you have the need to use a multiband compressor usually it means you have done something wrong in the mix. in the studio we only use a multiban compressor for bands that have given us already mixed tracks for mastering.
post edited by giankap - 2011/02/16 17:20:17
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bitflipper
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 17:21:02
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Either one will do the job. Personally, I do not work in any genres that need multiband compression on the master bus, so I use neither. I do sometimes apply multiband compression for remedial treatment of vocal tracks, in which case the Sonitus Multiband does the job nicely.
(That is, until FabFilter decides to make a multiband compressor, at which time I will jump on that one in an instant! But alas, they do not offer one yet, so it's the Sonitus for now.)
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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amiller
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 17:53:04
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Very helpful info guys. What do you use, when mastering, to pump up the volume? Also, do you have a mastering EQ plugin preference?
post edited by amiller - 2011/02/16 17:55:59
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giankap
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 17:58:44
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amiller
Very helpful info guys. What do you use, when mastering, to pump up the volume?
Definately L2 or L3 form waves. The most amazing Limiters ever. I don't personally have those plugs at home but we have them at the studio so I always take my mixes there in order to use the waves. But if I'm in a rush and want to push something fast, I do have an avalon compressor at home, but it's hardware.
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feedback50
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 18:14:35
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I don't tend to use mutiband in mastering unless I have a particular problem to solve. I have found unusual uses for the Sonitus multiband (although I recently picked up the UAD multiband and like it quite a bit). I often use multiband on kick so I can limit/level the low end, and balance it against the beater click. I usually use only two bands to do this, and attenuate the boxiness in the middle with the unused bands. The filters in most multibands are very steep and can be useful in trying to identify mix issues purely as an analytical tool. If you want to know what's happening in the sub bass, or 10K area enable the specific band you're interested in and give a listen.
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Guest
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 18:30:35
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If you really want volume you need a loud balanced mix. Then I generally use Kjaerhus MPL-1 Pro
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bitflipper
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 18:32:56
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amiller, it sounds like you're just getting your feet wet with mastering. If that's the case then Ozone may be your best bet - it's specifically targeted for users who want good results but don't quite know what they're doing yet. That describes most of us here!
All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 18:48:20
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The LP-64 is a Linear Phase processor and should have less coloration than the Sonitus, and therefore to me is more useful for mastering purposes. However I don't find the Sonitus to have all that much color to begin with. Either way, the linear phase characteristics of the LP-64 should make its employment less noticeable when used judiciously on a master mix. While true that Multiband compressors are often used to fix a mix where things could perhaps be corrected prior to mastering, IMO they have their legitimate uses in both mastering and even in the mix process. Now you're likely not going to use a MB compressor on an individual track but they can be quite useful on groups of tracks or buses (drums, keys, etc). MB compressors can sometimes do wonders on things like drum buses or full range loops with inherent problems or unwanted characteristics. In a way, you can use the MB comp as a kind of dynamic EQ processor. Basically you can shape the overall tone of a bus (or mix) but in a way rather different than using a traditional EQ in that its effects can be tailored to respond to only certain kinds and level of input - in the same way a compressor in general can be tailored to respond to input. Anyway, I'd say play around with it. Obviously if you are "stuck" with something delivered that doesn't sound quite right to you - but also if you are having trouble getting a group of instruments to have the tonal "shape" you want. As was mentioned, don't track with a linear phase plugin enabled because they introduce lots of latency, but in the purely mixing or mastering phase they are perfectly usable. Regarding Boost 11, and limiters in general: IMO they should be used very judiciously and sparingly. My own rule of thumb is that if I'm having to shave off more than, say, 3db of the louder peaks to get the desired volume level, then I need to go back to the mix itself (if possible) and work on basic EQ and compression elements. Limiters are a dangerous thing. Like salt in cooking - they can seem great at first, but are liable to squeeze all the dynamics out of a mix and make the whole thing fatiguing to listen to. But a little limiting never hurt anyone IMHO and is often necessary to get the desired loudness of an overall mix (and sometimes of a particular bus). Good thing is that the less the limiter has to work, the less any ill effects it has on the sound will be heard and/or noticed. As I sometimes say, "Make music, not sausages".
post edited by Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk] - 2011/02/16 18:52:20
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Guest
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 18:54:15
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The moral of the story is that if you take the time to really learn to mix the rest is gravy, especially if you learn how to arrange and get the right sounds.
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A1MixMan
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 18:56:38
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bitflipper
amiller, it sounds like you're just getting your feet wet with mastering. If that's the case then Ozone may be your best bet - it's specifically targeted for users who want good results but don't quite know what they're doing yet. That describes most of us here!
I have Ozone and it scares the hell out of me. groove3.com has a new 3 1\2 hour tutorial on Ozone that I might pickup. Brandon, you sound hungry with all this talk of cooking with salt and sausages. Damn, now I'M hungry...
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UnderTow
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 18:58:35
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Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
The LP-64 is a Linear Phase processor and should have less coloration than the Sonitus, and therefore to me is more useful for mastering purposes. However I don't find the Sonitus to have all that much color to begin with. Either way, the linear phase characteristics of the LP-64 should make its employment less noticeable when used judiciously on a master mix.
Except for the pre-ringing induced by the linear phase filters (It smears transients) . Anyway, I think that you will find that most mastering engineers use neither multi-band compression nor linear phase EQs or linear phase based processing. Well... except in marketing brochures intended to sell stuff... UnderTow
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 18:59:00
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Arranging is definitely important as well. Good arrangements often need less hoop-jumping when it comes to certain aspects of mixing (EQ and compression). But this of course depends greatly on the kind of music being mixed and/or mastered and perhaps more importantly, what the person using the MB compressor has the ability to actually go back and change. A mastering engineer will often not have access to the original mix and sometimes the mix engineer won't have access to all the original, individual tracks nor permission to alter the arrangement in any way.
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A1MixMan
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 18:59:06
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10Ten
The moral of the story is that if you take the time to really learn to mix the rest is gravy, especially if you learn how to arrange and get the right sounds.
All of my learning is steadily gravitating to The Mix.
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UnderTow
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 19:02:43
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giankap
amiller
Very helpful info guys. What do you use, when mastering, to pump up the volume?
Definately L2 or L3 form waves.
L3 is just horrid and tends to destroy mixes. The L2 is OK but has long been surpassed by much better an/or cheaper competitors like Voxengo Elephant 3, iZotope Ozone's limiter, PSP Xenon, FabFilter L-Pro, Sonnox Limiter, etc etc Or, you could just clip your converters.  UnderTow
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 19:03:41
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UnderTow
Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk
]
The LP-64 is a Linear Phase processor and should have less coloration than the Sonitus, and therefore to me is more useful for mastering purposes. However I don't find the Sonitus to have all that much color to begin with. Either way, the linear phase characteristics of the LP-64 should make its employment less noticeable when used judiciously on a master mix.
Except for the pre-ringing induced by the linear phase filters (It smears transients) . Anyway, I think that you will find that most mastering engineers use neither multi-band compression nor linear phase EQs or linear phase based processing. Well... except in marketing brochures intended to sell stuff...
UnderTow
I think it all depends. I know for a fact that some do, at least on some occasions use linear phase plugins and are at times forced to use MB compression on a, shall we say, less than perfect mix . What the ratio of those that do and don't is probably hard to quantify. Others don't use plugins at all and have a very serious, very particular chain of analog gear that they likely couldn't be separated from and do their work happily or effectively. I think the best mastering engineers have a very specific set of tools for specific jobs and a more oft-used set of tools for the rest of the time. And then it gets all gray when you start talking about people doing their own mastering etc.
post edited by Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk] - 2011/02/16 19:07:12
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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Re:X1's LP-64 Multiband Compressor - Placement?
2011/02/16 19:06:18
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UnderTow
giankap
amiller
Very helpful info guys. What do you use, when mastering, to pump up the volume?
Definately L2 or L3 form waves.
L3 is just horrid and tends to destroy mixes. The L2 is OK but has long been surpassed by much better an/or cheaper competitors like Voxengo Elephant 3, iZotope Ozone's limiter, PSP Xenon, FabFilter L-Pro, Sonnox Limiter, etc etc
Or, you could just clip your converters.
UnderTow
Personally I don't like the L2 any more than the L3 and would agree that it has been surpassed in recent years by other products like the ones you've named. But I have never actually owned the L3, so maybe I'd like it less if I did. 
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