X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working

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Tripecac
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2012/10/12 00:01:17 (permalink)

X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working

In my current project, I have BREVERB working on my drum track. If I move it to a bus, it also works.

If I put a second instance of BREVERB on my bass or piano track, it doesn't work. The output from it seems to go somewhere and get lost. This happens with Kontakt and Dimension Pro.

If I put another type of reverb on the bass or piano track, that reverb works fine.

Before I start investigating which combination of synths, effects, and track/bus settings results in working vs non-working BREVERB, I am wondering: has anyone else had a problem with BREVERB not working consistently?

tripecac.com
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#1

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    Tripecac
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/12 00:14:47 (permalink)
    Update: Restarting Sonar fixed the problem.

    Weird!

    tripecac.com
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    #2
    Tripecac
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/18 22:15:11 (permalink)
    I am getting this problem again.

    I just added a third instance of BREVERB to a new track, and it's not working. Clicking the on/off button doesn't work.

    I have to exit Sonar, and started it again, and then BREVERB works.

    Has anyone else had this problem?

    tripecac.com
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    #3
    Wood67
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/19 06:05:04 (permalink)
    I've had a few cases where placing Breverb as an insert does not apply any fx (like it's running 100% dry).  I can change presets, or whack the room size up to the max but nothing.  Deleting the insert and reloading it fixes - I don't need to restart Sonar.

    Odd - but only a minor annoyance. Once the insert is working it stays.  Nice reverb though!

    Wood

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    #4
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/19 06:35:46 (permalink)
    I've only used Breverb as a single instance so far - I'll try and remember to experiment with this later, but it is a really nice 'verb - I'm tempted to buy the upgrade.

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    #5
    Guitarpima
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/19 07:32:55 (permalink)
    I never understood more than one instance of a reverb. The whole point is to put the music in a space so why try to put the music in so many spaces?

    Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
     
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    #6
    stevec
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/19 07:40:06 (permalink)
    I've done this many times...   Sometimes for a special effect, other times to emulate close and distant mic'ing when working with virtual instruments or a completely dry track.
     

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    #7
    Wood67
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/19 07:53:56 (permalink)
    The whole point is to put the music in a space

     
    Why - where did that rule come from?  Sorry, I really don't mean that to sound rude, just surprised that you'd find yourself bound by such a restriction.  If I'm using a reverb I might elect to use it to set the whole piece within a space, or use multiple different verbs/delays to make interest.
     
    To come back to topic though - I don't think this issue is necessarily limited to placing multiple instances.  I've had this occur on inserting the first instance of breverb in a project.

    Wood

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    #8
    Lynn
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/19 11:50:54 (permalink)
    This is kind of a softball question.  Often your snare drum needs a different reverb than your lead guitar.  I.E. one with a short tail and one with a longer tail.  Sometimes that percussion on the edge of your panning will need a different treatment than your backup vocals.  And so on...
    By the time you add them all together, even though several different elements have tailored responses, the overall effect sounds like they're coming from the same space.  You just don't have your cowbell ringing as long as your guitar solo.  Using only one reverb on a mix can be like having only one color for the interior design of your house.  One must be careful, though, and be subtle at times so you don't end up with hash, instead of a filet mignon.
    Guitarpima


    I never understood more than one instance of a reverb. The whole point is to put the music in a space so why try to put the music in so many spaces?




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    #9
    Tripecac
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/19 13:04:24 (permalink)

    I never understood more than one instance of a reverb. The whole point is to put the music in a space so why try to put the music in so many spaces?
    I agree with this, actually. There are 2 reasons I've been using multiple instances of BREVERB.

    The first is that BREVERB has some effects that go beyond simple reverb. Some sound more like a delay, others reverse stuff. I wouldn't want to apply those to all tracks, so keep them, as individual track FX.

    The second reason is that even when I use a "normal" reverb, I like to have different amounts of reverb on each track (e.g., lots on piano, little on bass). For me the easiest/fastest way to do that is to put a separate instance of the reverb on each track.

    I suppose the proper thing to do would be to put the reverb on a bus, and then adjust the send amounts on the individual tracks. However, I've never gotten used to the routing involved for that; do you have any examples?

    tripecac.com
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    #10
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/19 13:55:35 (permalink)
    Guitarpima


    I never understood more than one instance of a reverb. The whole point is to put the music in a space so why try to put the music in so many spaces?

    Try reading Mike Senior's excellent "Mixing Secrets For The Small Studio"


    In it he puts forward the idea of having one verb for Space, another for Blend, another for Width etc.


    You get the idea

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    #11
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/19 13:59:11 (permalink)
    The second reason is that even when I use a "normal" reverb, I like to have different amounts of reverb on each track (e.g., lots on piano, little on bass). For me the easiest/fastest way to do that is to put a separate instance of the reverb on each track. 



    And I'm afraid this I totally disagree with.


    If you want differing amounts of reverb on each track - that's what your Send level is for.

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    #12
    bvideo
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/19 14:05:14 (permalink)
    Regarding putting your music in a space: for being serious about this, you would use multiple reverbs depending on where "in space" the instrument is placed. The reverbs would vary e.g. in their early reflection and input pan settings. Anyone with full Breverb have experience with the space algorithms?
    #13
    Guitarpima
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/19 14:14:06 (permalink)
    I see all the points and they are all worthy. I'm still sticking to my original statement.

    I've noticed, since I went back to using just on reverb, that my mixes seem less cluttered and much more open. Or, I just started mixing better. One space can only have one reaction or color. IMO, putting many colors cause inconsistencies that muddy up the mix.

    Of course, everything is subjective so does it really matter? You have to do what works for you.

    Notation, the original DAW. Everything else is just rote. We are who we are and no more than another. Humans, you people are crazy.
     
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    #14
    Tripecac
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    Re:X2 - BREVERB - Second (or third) instance not always working 2012/10/19 15:22:37 (permalink)
    I have some questions about reverb sends, but since they are not really part of the topic, I posted them separately: http://forum.cakewalk.com/tm.aspx?m=2696349

    tripecac.com
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    #15
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