X2 and VST3?

yeah, thanks for bringing that up.
what possible reason could there be to delay support for vst3?????

lets stay on the cutting edge

Z3ta is now available for Mac (!!)* as Audio Unit and VST3.

Don't know if that's an indication of things to come on the PC for Sonar.

* My eternal gratitude goes to Cakewalk for bringing my most favorite/most-used softsynth ever to my platform of choice.

VST3 is important!

 
But only if you have VST3 plugins!   
 

LANEY


VST3 is important!

Don't you mean:


VST3 is important! ...?

  Sorry Freddie, I couldn't resist.  


Mike

I just checked the other fred and no one from
the Bakery posted a response....

"all you guys with VST3-envy. Tell me why."

I think it's the only way I'm ever going to get my keyboard to sound like a real life saxophone.











There, I said it.

;-)

bitflipper

VST3 is right up there with "gapless audio engine" under the heading of "stuff I don't care about and am mystified why anyone would".

Not trying to start an argument...no, wait, that's exactly what I'm trying to do. C'mon, all you guys with VST3-envy. Tell me why. (BTW, the judges will not accept "it's the future" as a valid argument.)

I get that it won't benefit you...but it will benefit many folks...


I think it's also important to stay on the cutting edge of technology instead of always playing catch up..
Here are some highlights....keep being mystified if you must.  http://www.steinberg.net/en/company/technologies/vst3.html


NEW VST3 FEATURES


Improved performance Managing large plug-in sets and multiple virtual instruments on typical studio computer systems can often be difficult because of CPU performance limits. VST3 helps to improve overall performance by applying processing to plug-ins only when audio signals are present on their respective inputs. Instead of always processing input signals, VST3 plug-ins can apply their processing economically and only when it is needed.

Multiple dynamic I/Os VST3 plug-ins are no longer limited to a fixed number of inputs and outputs. Their I/O configuration can dynamically adapt to the channel configuration they’re inserted in, meaning that any VST3 plug-in can be surround-capable with true multi-channel processing. For example, all the new VST3 plug-ins in Nuendo 4 can work in stereo-mode when inserted into a stereo channel, but switch to 6 channels when inserted into a 5.1 channel. Each audio channel is processed independently. Interaction between channels depends on the type and design of the plug-in. In addition to their flexible audio bussing capabilities, VST3 plug-ins may also offer a dedicated event bus. Typically, this is a MIDI input for control/modulation but these busses are no longer restricted to MIDI standard only. Future plug-ins may replace the common MIDI interface with alternative methods of control.


Activating/deactivating busses A typical issue with current virtual instruments is their audio output bussing system and how they’re connected to the mixer after loading. Especially virtual samplers with multiple outputs often occupy more mixer channels than need. The VST3 interface offers the possibility to deactivate unused busses after loading and even reactivate those when needed. This cleans up the mixer and further helps to reduce CPU load.

Resizable edit windows VST3 introduces a new approach to plug-in GUIs though window resizing, allowing for extremely flexible use of valuable screen space.


Sample-accurate automation VST3 also features vastly improved parameter automation with sample accuracy and support for ‘ramped’ automation data, allowing completely accurate and rapid parameter automation changes.

Logical parameter organization The plug-in parameters are displayed in a tree structure. Parameters are grouped into sections which represent the structure of the plug-in. Parameters like “Cutoff” and “Resonance” could be grouped into a section called “Filter”. This makes searching for a certain parameters easier, such as on an automation track. This also allows assigning a group of parameters to a specific MIDI Channel input and audio output bus.


Optional VST3/SKI combination As a direct result of the modular interface design of VST3, the Steinberg Kernel Interface (SKI) can be combined with VST3 plug-ins. SKI is an additional SDK that allows extremely close integration of a plug-in with a Steinberg host application, and allows functions to be carried out almost from within the application. This extends to the ability to create tracks, copy, cut, paste or process events in the Steinberg host application. SKI is provided to selected industry partners upon request.

VSTXML for remote controllers Remote controllers for audio and MIDI software applications have become increasingly popular. With VSTXML, VST3 offers far more flexible control of VST plug-ins by remote controllers. Using the knobs and faders on the control surface, parameters can be recorded, renamed and edited in many ways. Parameters that cannot be edited can be routed for display purposes to the control surface, for example to show Gain Reduction on compressor.


UTF16 for localized parameter naming In VST3, all strings that can be displayed to the user are in Unicode (UTF16) format. Usage of this universal character base allows the host application to display characters in localized languages.

No MIDI restriction for parameter value transfers VST3 has a dedicated interface for event handling that carries a much wider range of functionality than standard MIDI events would be able to provide. This opens up a big range of opportunities for musical use cases with very high potential for innovative product design. For example with VST3 some controller events (for example, pitch) can be referred to a note event (using a note unique ID). This offers the possibility to e.g. modulate only a single note which itself is part of a chord.


Audio inputs for VST instruments The VST3 interface expands VST instruments by adding the ability to create audio input busses. As a result, audio data can be routed to an VST3 instrument. A synthesizer which has a built-in e.g. vocoder effect is able to process audio data coming in from other sources as well.

Multiple MIDI inputs/outputs Unlike with VST 2.x,, a VST3 plug-in can have more than only one MIDI input or one MIDI output at the same time.


64-bit processing VST3 plug-ins are generally able to process audio data in 64-bit.





BACK TO TOP

. Call me Chuck Norris if you like, but truly I do not record that way.

Nor would I if I was restricted to Sonar's current ability to loop succesfully...

Automatic take lanes and glitchless looping within Sonar will be a revelation (if they get them working properly) trust me....

Regards to the original topic whether you have views on the VST3 spec or not, many plug-ins, whilst not maximising the extra functionality available, are already offered as an alternative alongside the VST 2.4 ones by many vendors anyway, the main advantages there are better plug-in management,  scalable windows and various other refinements. 

Given that there are many VST3 plug-ins available already I'd say adding support for VST3 is a cheap way for Cakewalk to add further appeal to existing users and potential customers alike.  After alll adding support for it is a much more trivial matter than designing plugs for it which is why many DAWs already support it.

darn double post...sorry

Scalable windows are a reality in VST 2.4 already. 


According to Noel VST 3 actually brings nothing new. All that was listed is doable in VST 2.4.


I personally have no problem with CW adopting it as long as they are not impeded by it in any way. That would include licencing.   


Check out Melda Audio all their plugins come in both versions with the same abilities including scalable windows. 


My only problem is Steinberg's control of it, if it does keep control. That I don't know. 


I have seen some backlash towards it though.  We shall see. 

panup


Which VST3 effects would you guys buy if it was supported by X2?

Many of the plugs I already have (Waves i.e) are already VST3 compliant.

Not all of us can afford a HIGH END Computer System, and not all of us work in a Recording Studio,

where purchasing things is tax write off.

VST3 is important (to me) because of improved CPU handling, just as the "Steinberg Propaganda" says.

THEY wrote the ORIGINAL VST standard...and no one saw a need for that when they did it....and NOW
everyone uses it..

Then the VST2 standard...and everyone complained about not needing it...and NOW everyone uses it..


Do you see a pattern here?

They wouldn't go through the painstaking process of a complete re-write of the standard 
for "resizable" windows guys....let's at least TRY to be realistic when we approach this...
There was a NEED for the re-write.  To improve upon the "old" and make it better...
Just like X2...we could say....X1 was just getting fixed....and I don't see a need for the change...
And I'm sure in a year all the nay-sayers will be saying ...oh I love VST3

There are definite benefits to the new standard...

If you don't care fine...but don''t downplay the importance to the INDUSTRY just because it's not important to YOU...


There's my 2 cents...

mike_mccue


Per note dynamically mapped valve leakage on the Scarbee Mark4 will be a aural revelation.

...when it finally happens, I predict that Spittle Burst & Air Suck Phraser will sweep the music scene faster than you can say Camel Crusher.

WB Mike

Nice to know some things will NEVER change or improve.

There's a certain security in that.

It's unlikely that vendors such as these are gonna devolve to VST2 just to sell licenses to SONAR users:

http://www.synchroarts.com/index.php?PAGEID=home









Maybe someday we'll be able to actually run a 64bit Quicktime codec in SONAR and use powerful tools like Vocalign VST3.

There are few VST3 advantages over AU:  1. VST3 supports multiple MIDI ports as opposed to VST2 and AU which support only one MIDI port at a time. This is especially handy if you're trying to offload some of the instruments you might be using to program such as Vienna Ensemble Pro.  2. VST3 is surround capable. Actually I'm not sure if AU is surround capable or not, so excuse if I'm wrong on this one. When you insert a VST3 effect on a track - you get an effect for every channel (6 effects for 5.1 surround, 2 for Stereo, 1 for MONO).  3. VST3 goes offline if you have no audio going through it. If you have 100 tracks, with 100 effects, but only 15 play at a time, then your CPU only computes those 15 effects that are being utilized at a particular moment.

I am not sure why anyone would not want at least that.



Garry

Blogman


A good example of needing VST3 is when using Vocal Rider (amazing btw-) It has the option to sidechain the music so that it compensates for the music getting louder whilst riding the vocal. This function is grayed out in Sonar as VST2 doesn't support sidechaining. Sucks to spend the big bucks on WAVES plugs only to find your DAW doesn't utilize the latest technology. So now we wait for VST3 support. Must Have!!

+1!