^ +1

Nope, jumping ship to Ableton.
 
I'm sure Sonar is a great DAW for non-electronic artists or "real" hardware folks. It isn't completely unusable, no. But for a young industrial-powernoise artist, Ableton fits like a glove for me.
 
I only started with Sonar X1, now on X2a. Hardly any change or improvements.
What's with the load of crappy VSTs? [Boost11, Beatscape, pre-'05 plugins, etc.?]
ACT is a pain. Sorry. Sending MIDI CC to instrument/effects and automating on-the-fly in Ableton is fecking FUN.
Loop sequencing and recording is fast. Sidebar tutorial was perfect and THERE for me. [No YouTube videos, manual reading, etc.] The built-in effects sound SOLID.
The marketing/community/whatever seems very alive!
 
I'm using the month-long demo and honestly, its the workflow I TRIED make happen with Sonar's step sequencer/matrix view. Ableton's clip view/launcher is great.
Finally my Akai controller's control banks map all the way across the DAW. Hard to explain, but Sonar only let you map 1 set...and then let you virtually switch blindly in ACT's banks...ugh.

dorism
Touch is a gimmick - how did this even make the list?

remember the people who said midi was a gimmick?

PTheory
I don't believe Roland / Cakewalk have the market share to justify that investment and have given up on Sonar.  

IIRC, roland is still the world's second largest mfr of musical instruments and gear only behind yamaha.  given Roland's  history with incubating the advance of midi thanks to folks at the company like  Ikutaru Kakehashi - they had the second midi-enabled device to market, and made the first "demonstrated" midi connection ever - they were the first company to introduce dedicated midi controllers... the list goes on. 
 
it's a wonder that they did not ever develop their own world-class daw.  from this standpoint i think their decision to acquire cakewalk speaks volumes about both companies and the direction they are taking.  roland has full resources to develop their own daw, but they chose to invest more fully in cake.  you don't throw away millions of dollars to acquire a company and kill their products unless you have a competing one on the market. 
 
just my 2c.

mudgel

pbognar
To those who feared the death of Sonar is near, the new forum would tend to contradict that - unless a new Cakewalk DAW is around the corner, or Cakewalk is going to focus on instruments and effects. 

I'm not sure that we fear the death of SONAR (well not me anyway). I have no information about cakewalk's financial standing as a viable cog in the larger Roland wheel.
I think people are reacting to the change in Cakewalk staff presence on the forums and the feeling of being in the dark that has gradually crept into the former relationship we had with Cakewalk staffers via the forum. When those who were the public face of Cakewalk on the forums and trade shows are no longer with the company (transferred to Roland like Robin Kelly and Brandon Ryan or sacked like Seth Perlstein) then without identified replacements It would seem obvious why some of us feel a little twitchy.
Add to that, in recent years we've seen Cakewalk move from an annual release to a shifting development cycle and everyone is speculating.
SONAR 8.5 to SONAR X1 was about 15 months then nearly 2 years between SONAR X1 and X2; now we've already had 6 months since the X2a release and still no update or word of one. Just food for thought and if there's one thing we do well on this forum, is we speculate more with a decrease in information.

Hey Mike,
 
I actually have a few questions about this since you and I both mentioned some of the same stuff, yet no one seemed to comment on what I had mentioned...so I'm curious to get your take if you don't mind? Please keep in mind I'm not singling you out or trying to start a confrontation with you. I'm seriously interested in hearing your opinion.
 
You mentioned staff presence, public face, transferred, sacked, shifting development cycle etc. My questions are:
 
1. I mentioned in an earlier post that none of us truly has a clue what those employees really did behind the scenes. Meeting a nice guy at a trade show and hearing a good voice that may know how to describe the software is hardly a reason to boycott the software as I've read. Do you or anyone else know how good said employees were to where this discussion is even coming up and should it really matter to anyone other than said employees?
 
How do we know those they have gotten rid of or those who have been transferred weren't a part of a changed plan for the better? I seem to remember quite a lot of bugs in every version of Sonar with the same old BS in EVERY release other than 8.5, don't you? Maybe it was time for a change...why should anyone choose sides? I mean no offense to anyone past or present in Cakewalk nor anyone who may be buds with a past or present employee, but there have been calls made that I personally cringed at as well as laughed at while shaking my head in disgust. I'm ready for something new with some new blood. This new forum is a good start. Someone is listening to us.
 
2. I personally am happy with a longer development cycle. I really wouldn't mind waiting 2 years if there are less bugs, more stability, and more of "what the users want" instead of what some suit decides we should have. Seriously. I think that quite a few of us have ridden this train for a long time. We of course are not entitled to anything, but I think ANYTHING that pops up time and time again that has any sense of meat behind it as far as users go, should be considered, don't you? And, if the cycles to deliver this stuff take longer, isn't that what most people want?
 
This is one thing I've heard since Sonar 6....people asking them to "get it right, no need to rush these out." Again I say....I sincerely believe someone is listening to us now. Sure, things aren't perfect but I'm really trying to keep my faith while hoping someone reads these threads and has a clue. What are your thoughts there? Should the length of the release cycle be something people look at as negative? Should the company give us info on something they themselves don't even know yet in order to quell the rebellion? I think that sort of puts them on the spot and can be a bad way to go about it.
 
For example, look at Drumagog. They promised people a long time ago that they would get x64 plugs done. They still haven't been able to crack it for some reason and let me tell you, they paid for that on their forum. Quite a few users have bashed their brains in. All because someone thought it would be good to tell the masses they'd have something at the end of the year or something. A year or more has gone by...and man, people are upset about it.
 
That said, I wouldn't mind an "eye in the sky baker" signing on saying:
 
"Hey guys, I don't have any ETA on anything...but this is what I know as of now...
 
We have plans for:
VST 4.12.956 (LOL)
Better Scoring and Notation
Colors and options implemented
Better Video handling
Take lanes fixed
Gapless audio engine
Speed/Pitch control knob
Increased Stability
Window sizing fixed
0 latency support for Sound Blasters for CJ (Hahaha!)
 
We're hoping this will be in X18 but you'll most likely see some of this in a patch that may be out around the middle of July. That's what we hope for, but we really don't know for sure as you know how this stuff can be."
 
Wishful thinking I know...but hey, someone on here has to fantasize. :)
 
-Danny

swamptooth

dorism
Touch is a gimmick - how did this even make the list?

remember the people who said midi was a gimmick?

nope

Just check out how Steinberg have implemented drum maps, midi editing, audio beat detection and quantising, comping, note expression, improved their audio engine, scoring, improved stability, delivered a continuous stream of patches and new features and then tell me touch is a big deal. it's fine if you are working on a laptop but it's not an urgent priority and it is not targeting professional/studio use. There are bigger fish to fry at the moment.

look at the manifold complaints on the Steinberg boards too dorism...
 
I own Wavelab (haven't upgraded to the latest version) and Nuendo (never use it, have bad luck with it, still trying to find a buyer for it) and both those programs are more easily tipped over by me than X2. 
 
The automatic chord suggester thing just looks corny too. 

it's true - Steinberg products have bugs too. The main difference is Steinberg appear to be doing something about it. Cakewalk. I'm not not so sure.

Linear Phase

dorism
it's true - Steinberg products have bugs too. The main difference is Steinberg appear to be doing something about it. Cakewalk. I'm not not so sure.

Yes indeed..  Steinberg is currently working on a new procedure for version 8.  def random_crash(crash for no apparent reason):
 
Stay tuned for more info

lol

When exactly did Roland buy Cakewalk?
Just curious, because in my country Sonar has been sold by Roland since version 1.0 (so I didn't notice the change).

New Forum software!  Yea!!
 
Well, not so much:
     the header takes half the screen
     wasted space everywhere  Why?????????    de-cluttering is still alive!
       less on screen
         more scrolling !!!!
           larger line spacing is easier to read????
 
The X series GUI comes to the forum.  Looks good at first glance. But actual use requires more attention to the interface.
 
But, the giant quote marks sure make me tingle.
 
Bad enough the stupidity of "post count" continues. I wonder how I get "Reward Points?" Does it have anything to do with audio recording? Or how many vowels I use in a post?  Oh, I am so stoked!
 
Sure hope the search function actually works as described.
 
Yea. Can't we all just get along?
 
 

dorism

swamptooth

dorism
Touch is a gimmick - how did this even make the list?

remember the people who said midi was a gimmick?

nope

 
It is difficult to believe anyone actually said "MIDI was a gimmick". Things must have been very different back then. Very different.

SteveStrummerUK

 
And as for your line about 'morale', I find that rather counter-intuitive, although it is concomitant with the rest of your post. If we're only allowed to exalt Cakewalk, and never criticise their products or business modus operandi, what a saccharin-sweet den of abject sycophancy this place would soon become. And how much poorer the quality of their products would be, with nobody allowed to point out any problems and grievances with it.
 



Do this on the IK Multimedia forum and your psots will quickly be deleted or threads will belocked. I've had this a couple times for expressing my concerns on never ending i-xxx products and no development in the full desktop apps, the missing stealthboard etc etc.
 
I'm a long term member of IK who owns a lot of there software and interfaces. They will not have a bad word or difference in opinion said over there whatsoever.