jrom
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X2 - v-vocal
I have only seen the v-vocal mentioned sporadically in the upgrade info to X2. Has anyone heard anything about any improvements here too. I also own melodyne, but find myself using vv more and more.
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CJaysMusic
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/27 11:32:14
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Melodyne is a superior plugin when compared to v-vocal. If you have melodyne, you should use that over v-vocal.
Melodyne is at the top of their game and v-vocal is running in the middle of the pack
Cj
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dubdisciple
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/27 11:53:25
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I have seen no mention about improvements to v-vocal anywhere. I will be surprised if they do. With that said, I think Cakewalk has good understanding of when to leave well enough alone when it comes to competing with third party plugins. Without dedicating far too much time ans resources then necessary with very little reward, there is no way v-vocal will ever be in the class of melodyne. Even if they made drastic upgrades, it is unlikely the melodyne faithful would switch. V-vocal is great for a built-in plug. Those who a5re far more serious about such manipulations will spend extra.
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Skarda
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/27 21:02:20
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hmmm, I think people overlook the power of Vvocal. the draw tool alone makes it a ton more versatile melodyne. I have melodyne producer, and I can never get the same smooth note transitions when I work with an average singer. On saying that, melodyne does a pretty good job on poly notes, or multiple notes like an acoustic guitar. But for me, I only need it for vocals. Also Vvocals timing tool is far superior to melodyne.
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ProMusic27
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/27 23:46:01
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Skarda
hmmm, I think people overlook the power of Vvocal. the draw tool alone makes it a ton more versatile melodyne. I have melodyne producer, and I can never get the same smooth note transitions when I work with an average singer. On saying that, melodyne does a pretty good job on poly notes, or multiple notes like an acoustic guitar. But for me, I only need it for vocals. Also Vvocals timing tool is far superior to melodyne.
Wow... I am quite surprised with your statements... I've tryed VV several times and found it less than average...
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Silicon Audio
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/27 23:58:53
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I don't care if V-Vocal is functionally identical to X1. All I want to see is a version of V-Vocal that doesn't crash with monotonous regularity. Currently, if I make a V-Vocal edit, I must bounce it straight away. If I leave live edits in place, I will eventually crash. The more edits, the more likely the crash.
The real power of V-Vocal is in the manual manipulation. The auto-correction is average, but as a tool, when used sparingly, it can be very, very good.
"One of the great and beautiful things about music and recordings in general is that legacies live on" - Billy Arnell - April 15 2012
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stickman393
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 00:00:18
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V-Vocal is an under-documented gem of a feature.
In my opinion, the only thing needed in X2 is for Cakewalk to avoid breaking it. Improved documentation would be nice.
+1 to Skarda.
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M_Glenn_M
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 01:38:00
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I'm hoping both VV and Audiosnap will include an alert that reminds us if the clip has not been rendered.
It's too easy to get distracted and move on and then wonder why it's crashing or sounding odd.
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jrom
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 01:55:54
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VV is mentioned under the "edit" icon in the X2 section. So It will still be there. I never had crash problems with it, and I especially like the free hand draw tool. Hope that CW keep developing this great tool.
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bladetragic
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 04:08:05
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After using Melodyne I could never go back to V-Vocal in its current state.
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kevo
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 12:04:43
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Silicon Audio
I don't care if V-Vocal is functionally identical to X1. All I want to see is a version of V-Vocal that doesn't crash with monotonous regularity. Currently, if I make a V-Vocal edit, I must bounce it straight away. If I leave live edits in place, I will eventually crash. The more edits, the more likely the crash.
The real power of V-Vocal is in the manual manipulation. The auto-correction is average, but as a tool, when used sparingly, it can be very, very good.
V-Vocal is NOT a plugin... It is a built-in feature of Sonar which is meant to be use on a track and then bounced to track when editing is done. It is not meant to sit in the FX bin (so to say), or to be used on multiple tracks as an effect. It is also to be used on the smallest section of track as possible. That is the official word from Cakewalk.
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Lynn
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 12:23:51
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I currently use both VV and Melodyne, and they both have their uses depending on the situation. If I'm correcting just a note or two in a short vocal passage, I'll use VV because it's faster and does the job well. If I'm correcting a longer vocal line, then Melodyne is the tool for me. They both have to be bounced down to track, anyway, so they're tied in that regard. The draw tool in VV is very handy and has saved my butt more than once. But, Melodyne has the blobs that are fun to play with. As far as timing goes, they're about equal in my book. Overall, I tend to agree with those that think VV is undervalued, but I'm happy to have both tools in my toolbox.
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LJB
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 12:25:06
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V-Vocal works 90% of the time. Melodyne works the other 10% :O)
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bitflipper
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 12:54:18
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I'd be very surprised if we saw any improvements to V-Vocal in X2. If any had been implemented, I'm sure they'd be touting it in a bullet point on the X2 features list.
My su****ion is that it's been "end-of-lifed" and won't be seeing any more work done to it. Let's hope that's because a better tool is in the works for a future version.
As to V-V's place in the world relative to Melodyne and Autotune, it would be naive to suggest that it's in the same league with those other products, which have been undergoing additional development while V-Vocal has languished. Nevertheless, V-V remains a usable utility, is nicely integrated into SONAR, and does the job if you work within its limitations.
It is frustrating, though, that V-Vocal still crashes from some people. Surely CW has received enough crash dumps over the past 7 years to pinpoint the reason(s) for it. That it hasn't been addressed reinforces the theory that the product is headed for retirement.
 All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. My Stuff
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Saxon1066
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 17:29:11
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Lots of love for Melodyne. How about Auto-Tune?
It would be nice if Cake would team up with one of these and dump V-Vocal. I've used V-Vocal and been a bit disappointed with the artifacts and difficulty of use. I just make my vocalist do it over now.
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Silicon Audio
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 18:49:39
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kevo
Silicon Audio
I don't care if V-Vocal is functionally identical to X1. All I want to see is a version of V-Vocal that doesn't crash with monotonous regularity. Currently, if I make a V-Vocal edit, I must bounce it straight away. If I leave live edits in place, I will eventually crash. The more edits, the more likely the crash.
The real power of V-Vocal is in the manual manipulation. The auto-correction is average, but as a tool, when used sparingly, it can be very, very good.
V-Vocal is NOT a plugin...
It is a built-in feature of Sonar which is meant to be use on a track and then bounced to track when editing is done.
It is not meant to sit in the FX bin (so to say), or to be used on multiple tracks as an effect.
It is also to be used on the smallest section of track as possible.
That is the official word from Cakewalk.
Never did I say it was a plugin, but I think I know what you are getting at. However, I don't buy what you are saying. Rendering is destructive editing and nothing else in Sonar makes you render. How do you go back and tweak something on a phrase in V-Vocal if you have rendered? I guess you could undo, but what about other things you have done since? It just doesn't work. Not good enough. What you are suggesting is a little like saying "here's your new car. It's fine just as long as you don't exceed 25 miles an hour. If you do that, the wheels will fall off and you'll have to jack the car up and re-attach them. I think V-Vocal is a great tool, but having to jump flaming hoops to avoid a crash is not really acceptable.
"One of the great and beautiful things about music and recordings in general is that legacies live on" - Billy Arnell - April 15 2012
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kevo
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 19:20:14
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Silicon Audio
kevo
Silicon Audio
I don't care if V-Vocal is functionally identical to X1. All I want to see is a version of V-Vocal that doesn't crash with monotonous regularity. Currently, if I make a V-Vocal edit, I must bounce it straight away. If I leave live edits in place, I will eventually crash. The more edits, the more likely the crash.
The real power of V-Vocal is in the manual manipulation. The auto-correction is average, but as a tool, when used sparingly, it can be very, very good.
V-Vocal is NOT a plugin...
It is a built-in feature of Sonar which is meant to be use on a track and then bounced to track when editing is done.
It is not meant to sit in the FX bin (so to say), or to be used on multiple tracks as an effect.
It is also to be used on the smallest section of track as possible.
That is the official word from Cakewalk.
Never did I say it was a plugin, but I think I know what you are getting at. However, I don't buy what you are saying. Rendering is destructive editing and nothing else in Sonar makes you render. How do you go back and tweak something on a phrase in V-Vocal if you have rendered? I guess you could undo, but what about other things you have done since? It just doesn't work.
Not good enough. What you are suggesting is a little like saying "here's your new car. It's fine just as long as you don't exceed 25 miles an hour. If you do that, the wheels will fall off and you'll have to jack the car up and re-attach them.
I think V-Vocal is a great tool, but having to jump flaming hoops to avoid a crash is not really acceptable.
I'm not selling anything, nor am I suggesting anything. :) It was actually the users of the forum that found the V-Vocal workaround I mentioned, and the workaround became the official stance of CW years ago. If you watch CW's videos for V-Vocal you will hear it from CW's own mouth. The workaround I stated is the accepted way to use V-Vocal. (Yes, destructive editing) I did not say it was good, bad or ugly. It is just the way it has been for 7 years. Whether you *buy* what I am saying or not does not change that fact. I agree with you that we should not have to have the workaround. But there is not a thing you, I, or anyone else can do to change the fact that the workaround has become THE accepted use for V-Vocal. I cannot see CW ever doing anything further with V-Vocal. As Bitflipper stated the product was EOL years ago.
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Silicon Audio
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 19:29:27
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kevo
I'm not selling anything, nor am I suggesting anything. :)
It was actually the users of the forum that found the V-Vocal workaround I mentioned, and the workaround became the official stance of CW years ago.
If you watch CW's videos for V-Vocal you will hear it from CW's own mouth. The workaround I stated is the accepted way to use V-Vocal. (Yes, destructive editing)
I did not say it was good, bad or ugly. It is just the way it has been for 7 years.
Whether you *buy* what I am saying or not does not change that fact.
I agree with you that we should not have to have the workaround. But there is not a thing you, I, or anyone else can do to change the fact that the workaround has become THE accepted use for V-Vocal.
I cannot see CW ever doing anything further with V-Vocal. As Bitflipper stated the product was EOL years ago.
OK, I get you. I thought you were defending CW's position, but you have explained it well. Sorry for the misunderstanding. As I said earlier in this thread, all I want is V-Vocal to be more solid, so that we can work in a non-destructive way without the worry of a crash. To cut CW some slack, it is a Roland product so up to Roland to fix it, I guess...
"One of the great and beautiful things about music and recordings in general is that legacies live on" - Billy Arnell - April 15 2012
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mattplaysguitar
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/28 21:06:35
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Well, it does create a muted clip behind the new v-vocal clip so it's kinda semi-destructive. A long as you don't bounce the muted clip as well with the v-vocal clip, you can always go back to your original and re-tune.
It sounds crapola anyway. It introduces artefacts even with no pitch correction applied at all. I'm holding out for a few one in the future because I love the implementation in SONAR.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/29 05:07:42
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It's funny reading this, I've never had a single problem with V-Vocal and have had as many as 60+ active V/V clips in a single project, going back to 6PE under XP32.
And yet, Rapture crashes my entire system regularly.
Weird stuff this I.T. lark.
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GIM Productions
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/29 06:25:38
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Hi all,i believe that it's a knowledge problem with VVocal.It's an awesome weapon for me and i have not a stability problem.I often use it on bass and sax mono tracks for time and tone corrections with incredible satisfaction. It's my experience.Best.Roby
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bmb
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/08/29 20:04:27
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I use V-vocal all the time... on small clips only. After I bounce the clip, if I later find something is not quite right yet, I simply delete the rendered clip, go back to the original (V-vocal) clip, make some minor tweaks, and bounce the clip again. Just takes a few minutes, and works very well. My 2 cents...
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sksherman
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/10/01 12:19:56
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Also FWIW ... I use Melodyne Assistant. I consistently got crashes with X1 when I tried using V-Vocal. Just for kicks, I tried pulling up V-Vocal in X2. Comes up fine, now!
I'm currently a big fan of Melodyne. But, in the future I'll include trying V-Vocal if I want to just do a quick tweak or if I have trouble getting what I want in Melodyne.
I typically will take a full, solo vocal track to Melodyne from Sonar, tweak it with Melodyne standalone, then pull the full track back into Sonar. No crashes with this approach. I lose context, but so far that's not been an issue. If any clips are out of sync, I can tweak those just fine in Sonar.
BTW, I love lane management in X2.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:X2 - v-vocal
2012/10/01 16:03:10
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Yeah you are better off working with shorter clips in Sonar. Hopefully you don't need to tweak every single note of a full vocal track! 
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