X3 Dropouts - suggestions?

here is a response I gave to someone 2 days ago, I think it could help you.
 
one thing that I have noticed in x1, x2 , and now x3 is that dpc latency will run just fine, but what I ve learned in sonar is that you've got to click  "p", then  config file, the very last line reads
dropoutmsec.... all three come with a setting of 250, and they don't make many computers that will not drop out at that setting with all the real time f/x going on .     750 is where I keep it and the drop outs and crashes have stopped with this one setting.
 
once in a blue moon I ll add 512 to the already 1024  playback buffer when mixing like 60 some tracks
 
another thing I do is set my computer up for best performance when mixing and mastering. no problems with the record buffer using studio capture (also 1024)  and asio reported latency of 921. I do not check enable read caching or enable write caching.
 
recorded bit depth and render bit depth stay at 32 as they have no baring on the fact that I usually record at 24-4800.
 
but sense sonar 8.1 these basic settings haven't changed much and are usually  the basses for toggling a new install into high performance gear.
 
I have i7,win 64 bit, 16 gig , sp1, studio capture, sonar x3, bluecat,blue tubes, pro channel add ons. using run between 25 and 70 tracks with bus count, all running with pc galore.

In fact it seems to be a lot worse when I am moving the mouse around over the Sonar window or performing actions within Sonar such as minimizing plugins etc. In fact I remember having similar problems with 8.5 but don't remember how they were fixed.
 
EDIT: In fact, it's not just encountering dropouts, it's failing to keep time. I can set it recording to the metronome and some beats are getting massively delayed compared to others. Any ideas?

Dude, you don't happen to use the latest Arturia synths? I've gotten tons of dropouts since I upgraded to the latest version of their plugins. I have a hexacore i7 with 12gb of ram so don't usually suffer from dropouts. But since the latest upgrade I do.

16GB RAM. Audiophile 2496 PCI card. This setup has mostly been fine for the last 3 years, but not today. And yet I haven't changed any significant software or hardware in months.

Yes, there have been plenty of Windows Updates. Nothing I'd consider reverting though, for security reasons.
 
No malware. There are plenty of tasks in the background but nothing that didn't cooperate ok before.
 
Hardware is probably fine. Hard to tell though.
 
Event Log shows nothing out of the usual.

There's no sensible way that a broken Root Certificate could possibly start affecting the general performance of a system like this. It's an authentication method that determines whether certain software is safe to install or not. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Have you tried adjusting your I/O buffers in sync and caching? Larger isn't always better either. If they are too large they can take too long to fill and dropouts can happen.
 
They should be a "one size fits all" once you've got them right but there is a little trial and error involved. They are also system specific. My laptop works better with smaller settings than my main system even though the main system is the more "powerful" setup.
 
That's where I'd start looking anyway.

Your issue is SOOOO common, I wish there was a sticky post for it.
 
Certain plugins are simply NOT meant to be used during the recording process, but rather are meant for mixing/mastering.
 
This is because some plugins either chew up a giant bunch of CPU, OR use a technique called 'look-ahead processing', where they actually are reading the audio data AHEAD of what is actually being processed/played.  They do this because it is needed for the kind of effect processing they do - like a Convoluted Reverb.
 
So, You need to develop an understanding - and make a list - of which of your plugins are ones to avoid using until you are DONE with the recording/tracking portion of the project's process cycle.  Find different plugins to use to approximate the effect, where the substitute effects are not themselves ones not meant for recording.
 
So, in addition to the above, when you are actually doing the recording for the project, you will need to keep your ASIO Buffer Size down low - perhaps 128, so that you aren't hearing a lag between when you play a note and when you hear it while you are recording.  If you have a large ASIO Buffer Size while recording, you will have a tough time not going crazy from that kind of lag.  (of course, it might be fun to watch your friend struggle through it).
 
So, when you finish the recording of the tracks, and are ready to move on to mixing/mastering, NOW is where you want to be able to load up the giant foo foo fabulous monster effects and all of that, and so at THIS point, crank up your ASIO Buffer Size to something 1024, or even 2048, if available.
 
Creating a large ASIO Buffer will give those power hungry and effects with look-ahead processing, enough room to really shine in your project - they will have the 'room' to do their thing.
 
When mixing/mastering, having a 1/2 second delay from when you hit play until you actually hear something doesn't matter - you aren't trying to play a guitar in synch with the song.  Rather, you are applying your effects, fine tuning reverb levels, EQ, side-chaining, etc., and having that ASIO Buffer set large is the key to all of that working as it should.
 
So, for the rest of time:
 
1.  Create and keep a list of which effects are ones to not load into projects until the mixing/mastering process.  (the ones to avoid using while recording/tracking).  This will save headaches and make you look like a genius if somebody insists they want the Flabrillulator Deluxe plugin on every track while recording vocals, you can already KNOW that this would cause a problem and you can gently smack them with a guitar strap until they quit asking for that plugin while recording.  (oh, I suppose you could explain it to them so they would understand for their own building up of studio knowledge)
 
2.  Make sure when recording, that you check and set your ASIO Buffer Size to a pretty low level - not maybe the MOST lowest level, because this can cause glitches if too small - for MY system, I generally find that an ASIO Buffer Size of 128 for recording gets the job done comfortably, without issues.
 
3,  During recording, apply effects that don't suck up a lot of CPU power, or use latency-inducing processing, such as look-ahead processing, a common processing issue with many convoluted reverbs, and some other plugins.  During recording, you won't have the 'stellar' sound you could have gotten with the problem-causing convoluted reverb, but that is instantly fixed once you move to the mixing process and can swap out any of the cheesy effects for those signature 'big daddy' effects.
 
4.  OK recording tracks is done.  NOW, JACK UP the ASIO Buffer Size - I usually use 1024, if 2048 is available you could use that too.  This gives your more power effects the room they need to properly rule the planet.  Now you can load in all those monster effects that will transform that squeaky librarian singer into that Rick Ross you KNOW lurks inside. You will have a delay when you hit play, but since you are not trying to play some guitar line in sync with it at this point, that doesn't matter, because you are only mixing now, not recording.
 
So, anyways, I hope you get the gist of what I am getting at.  Know which effects to be careful about using during recording, make sure you understand to set your ASIO Buffer Size appropriately for where you are in the process, and it will all take care of itself.
 
Bob Bone
 
 

robert_e_bone
You mention these happening in playback.
 
So you are in the mixing stage of this particular project?

 
I don't have separate a mixing stage. :)
 

If so, then if you have certain types of effects loaded into the project, you may well need to adjust your ASIO Buffer Size up to as high as 1024, or even 2048 - if it goes that high.

No, there are no effects (in my setup) that should require that sort of latency. I've never needed it before.
 

gswitz
IO?

Input/Output

Is your audio on a dedicated drive? I/O shouldn't need changing but of course a change to the drive where it is getting audio from such as greater file fragmentation would make a difference.
 
If that isn't an answer I would suggest that something such as an update has affected something somewhere. A system that has ran okay doesn't suddenly become a problem for no reason (obviously).

"dropoutmsec.... all three come with a setting of 250, and they don't make many computers that will not drop out at that setting with all the real time f/x going on .     750 is where I keep it and the drop outs and crashes have stopped with this one setting."
 
What?
 
Is anyone else going to add to this?

robert_e_bone
Can you please list all the plugins this particular project happens to have loaded?  I just want to double-check them, as a second set of eyes, for potential for inducing latency.  Thanks.

Bob, even if plugins do cause latency, as I understand it this should have no relation to the sort of ASIO latency you need. Latency within plugins is something that is handled within the engine so that all the outputs line up - but that's done before the audio hits the ASIO buffer.
 
Other questions: I have no 'dedicated' drives as such but the disk most of my audio is on is nearly full. However fragmentation is supposedly at 0%.
 
I have an unusual mouse (MadcAt/Saitek RAT 5) but I've had it for a long time without it causing any problems up to now.
 
Graphics card is just an AMD Radeon HD 6850. I'll look into driver updates.

My ATI Radeon has been a never-ending source of amusement. Sometimes it works fine, then there's a driver update and it sucks, so I roll back, then I try a later driver update and it works great. However, this is also the card that installed the HD Audio driver that totally screwed up my system, and I've mentioned that enough and wrote a tip of the week about it, so you probably already know about this particular issue.
 
There's a chance the nearly full drive could also be a problem, although that tends to be an issue more with system drives.
 
Definitely look into a graphics card update. The current update works okay in my system - not as bad as some updates, not as good as others. The CCC control program crashes regularly but doesn't seem to make much difference.

I respectfully disagree - a plugin can have a high CPU requirement (which could cause dropouts), and it could have a high latency too, but they aren't intrinsically linked. eg. A linear phase EQ could have a large latency because it needs more of the signal available in order to perform the phase correction. Conversely, a zero-latency convolution reverb requires higher CPU because it can't use the FFT tricks available to a plugin that accepts some latency.
 
If CPU load is low enough, the latency should be irrelevant (except when trying to play along with real-time monitoring), and anything else is a bug.
 
The plugins I am using are a variety of synths (Absynth, Dimension Pro, Play, Superior Drummer), lots of instances of Sonitus Equalizer, plus ValhallaRoom, Lexicon Pantheon, Sonitus Compressor, and Voxengo OvertoneEQ.
 
The stuttering still happens with all effect bins bypassed.