organickloud
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X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
Hello,
Moving to X3 resulted in a really annoying problem. Every time i move any VST knob/fader with a mouse I get glitchy sound and CPU overload. It happens not with all of the plugins (Arturia works fine), but a great many of them including anything made by TAL. What is really strange is that it's really a mouse<->VST issue. Tweaking the same knobs via midi controller or even via "assignable controls" section in the synth browser doesn't cause any problems. The problem appears in all projects with "malfunctioning" VSTs (and they all work fine in X2). Any solution / workaround would be much appreciated. Made a problem report, but still wait for a reply...
Nick.
Windows 7 x64 / Sonar X3 32-bit / Intel Core Quad Q8200 @ 2.33 GHz / 8 GB RAM / NVidia GeForce GT 440 / M-Audio Delta 44
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aries
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/19 04:17:49
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I have noticed this in some projects.
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cclarry
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/19 08:08:14
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I also, have had issues with this...specifically Breverb Sonar placed in the FX Bin...
Now that I've updated to Win 8.1, I now also have an issue with Faders using the mouse.
They jump around like rabbits to the top and bottom, instead of incrementing as they should.
If I use the Mouse Wheel, all is well...
Will keep you posted...
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2:43AM
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/19 09:56:33
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First, have you updated to X3b? This sounds like the same type of issue in X2 with moving MIDI notes with the mouse. Any movement, whether large or small, would cause CPU spikes and scratchy sounds to the audio/playback stream. I think it's a Windows vs. Mouse vs. Sonar issue. I say this because I've noticed scratchy audio while using applications other than Sonar when, for example, iTunes is playing in the background. And overall, my computer is very good with audio streaming, i.e. it has low latencies for normal operation (checked using dpclat.exe).
Can you try moving clips and notes around to see if this also happens in your projects? If so, then the issue still remains in X3. Also, while doing so, and while moving your knobs on your VST's, run dpclat.exe in the background to see if you get spikes. Thanks!
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organickloud
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/19 11:38:55
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2:43 AM, thanks for your reply!
Yes, I'm using the X3b version. Moving notes and clips doesn't cause any problems to me, so I guess it's a different issue. Dcplat doesn't show any problems at all, so this is not really hardware, something "inside sonar". Actually, CPU doesn't get immediately overloaded. When I try this on an almost empty project with just one synth added, the CPU usage rises from 1% to 15% during the mouse-knob interaction, but there is no overload (but the sound is still glitchy). My further investigation showed that i don't even have to move the knobs to make the sound stutter, i just need to "grab" the knob with a mouse. And, as I wrote before, it all works fine in X2, so this must be something X3-specific, maybe somehow connected with VST3 support implementation etc.
Nick.
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stevec
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/19 15:09:20
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Does increasing your audio interface's latency make any difference?
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Zo
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/19 17:54:49
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Guyz make tikets !!
if we want a solid X3C don't let anything passs...
For sale (PM me) : transfert ilok includedEventide Ultrachannel make offersSoftube Summit EQIK Neve 1081 , Neve precision Comp/LimEastWest GoshtwriterSoundforge Pro 12
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organickloud
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/21 02:44:49
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SteveC,
Yes, the glitch disappears when I increase audio driver buffer size to some incredibly high values like 1536 samples / 35 msec.
Nick.
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Sixfinger
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/21 05:39:58
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I have to say I am experiencing this same issue, new to me in X3
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stevec
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/21 14:09:10
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Hmmm.. if increasing buffers does make a noticeable difference, it would seem that there's some type of graphics/resource interaction taking place.
My system isn't drastically different than yours - Windows 7 x64 / Intel Core Quad Q9300 @ 2.5 GHz / 8 GB RAM / Generic ATI graphics w/ 1GB RAM, although I am running X3 x64. So perhaps the usual suspects apply - latest graphics card drivers, minimal background processes, try turning off AV software if running, etc. It might even be worthwhile reducing your graphics settings just as a test; e.g., 16bit color, reduced resolution, etc. Can't hurt to try!
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/21 15:34:17
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Can you guys gives me a list of the plugins that are causing this issue? I am going to download some demos to see if I can recreate these on my end here at HQ.
-DG
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sharke
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/21 15:51:49
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I actually noticed this with TH2 (the full version) this afternoon. I haven't used it in so long that I cannot remember if I ever had the same issue in X2 - will try later when I get home.
JamesWindows 10, Sonar SPlat (64-bit), Intel i7-4930K, 32GB RAM, RME Babyface, AKAI MPK Mini, Roland A-800 Pro, Focusrite VRM Box, Komplete 10 Ultimate, 2012 American Telecaster!
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stevec
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/21 15:54:32
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The only thing I've noticed with TH2 is that if I drag the whole UI around SONAR gets a little glitchy. Is that the same thing you're seeing?
FWIW, it's the only UI I recall ever doing this.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/21 16:27:41
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stevec
The only thing I've noticed with TH2 is that if I drag the whole UI around SONAR gets a little glitchy. Is that the same thing you're seeing?
FWIW, it's the only UI I recall ever doing this.
I've experienced this recently. I will ask the team about this as well.
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stevec
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/21 17:56:59
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Thanks, Dan!
And thanks for popping into sooo many threads too.
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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organickloud
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/22 09:23:40
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Dan,
I'm experiencing this with any TAL plugin (including free tal-dub delay) and audiorealism bassline 2.
Nick.
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organickloud
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/22 09:25:57
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SteveC,
Any operations with graphics didn't help :( More than that, I've tried the same projects on my laptop with different graphics card and win32 (different everything actually, even touchpad instead of a mouse) and the result is the same.
Nick.
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keyzs
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/22 10:54:03
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Yup... i recently have this issue with the movement of the mouse too.
these occur only using certain instruments within Kontakt. while playing back on either MIDI and Freeze Synth, moving the mouse over the clips area, clicks and pops will occur. There are also huge CPU Spikes in the first to third CPUs.
this phenomenon is even more apparent when moving the mouse over the tracks area.
if there is an empty area under the clips area, moving the mouse there will not produce these clicks and pops.
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/22 11:43:31
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Is it safe to say that all of these plugins are tempo based effects and sync to SONAR's global tempo is some fashion?
Can you guys try this:
Go to Utilities > Cakewalk Plugin Manager
Highlight your effects that sound glitchy in the columns
Click "Plugin Properties"
Untick "Configure as Tempo Based Effect"
*NOTE: This is NOT a workaround obviously, just trying to troubleshoot where the issue is coming from.
Thanks guys!
-DG
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keyzs
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/22 12:25:58
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Hi Dan, thank you for help with this issue...
nope... this is not a tempo based effect and its not sync to the global tempo. it is an instrument loaded into Kontakt 5. (ver 5.1) There are however, 17cc automations lanes recorded with the midi track.
the original song was sequenced in Sonar X1d which did not exhibit this behaviour.
many thanks again for your help.
EDIT: i noticed that when the Track Emulators from the ProChannel are on, these pops and clicks will occur while moving the mouse (as mentioned above). if the Track Emulators are off and or deleted, playback will be smooth. (i have Track Emulators on every audio track (N-Type) and Track Emulators (A-Type) on buses.) thanks again.
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wizard71
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/22 12:35:17
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keyzs
Hi Dan, thank you for help with this issue...
nope... this is not a tempo based effect and its not sync to the global tempo. it is an instrument loaded into Kontakt 5. (ver 5.1) There are however, 17cc automations lanes recorded with the midi track. the original song was sequenced in Sonar X1d which did not exhibit this behaviour. many thanks again for your help.
EDIT: i noticed that when the Track Emulators from the ProChannel are on, these pops and clicks will occur while moving the mouse (as mentioned above). if the Track Emulators are off and or deleted, playback will be smooth. (i have Track Emulators on every audio track (N-Type) and Track Emulators (A-Type) on buses.) thanks again.
I had a major issue last year after installation of x2 and the track emulators being on. Spiked cpu all the time so haven't used them since. I'm now wondering if it has something to do with this issue but didn't notice any correlation to the mouse movement at the time. Just thought I'd mention it after reading post edit above.Will keep checking so see if resolved. Bibs
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lawp
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/22 13:06:30
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there's a version 5.2 of kontakt,prolly worth updating and may help the sonar issue
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StepD
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/22 13:50:35
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I definitely have this problem when tweaking knobs and sliders in Addictive Keys during midi playback in X3 (even with only one midi track in project). No problems in X2.
Core2 6600 2.40 GHz, ASUS P5B Deluxe, 8GB RAM, GeForce GT 630 2GB, 3 Seagate Sata, Echo AudioFire 4 asio, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab
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rscain
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/22 16:51:42
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I experienced this today while tweaking the Blue Tubes Chorus. Didn't notice it on any other plugs, I'll check some more tonight.
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Sanderxpander
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/22 17:02:51
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Happens only on BlueTubes and sometimes Breverb for me.
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/22 23:27:25
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Alright this looks like a pretty crazy issue. I'm gonna dig into this one tomorrow and see what's going on.
Thanks for the insight on this!
-DG
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Silicon Audio
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/22 23:49:21
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Can you guys check your advanced power settings|processor power management|minimum processor state, and double check that it's at 100%?
Some power plans have this as low as 5%. This caused crackle when using console emulation for me. Worth checking.
"One of the great and beautiful things about music and recordings in general is that legacies live on" - Billy Arnell - April 15 2012
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Sanderxpander
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/23 06:10:25
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I don't actually get processor overload by the way. Just crackle and pop. And snap, I guess.
Both my systems are at maximum performance, power management wise. I'm not using ridiculously low latencies/buffers either. My laptop is an i7 quad core, not the very latest but definitely no slouch. My desktop is a 3rd gen i7 quad core. No other DAW (including earlier Sonars) produces this behavior at ANY latency I can set my system to. My desktop's card goes down to 2 milliseconds and it's fine, even in Sonar X3. Just not with BlueTubes or BReverb.
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2:43AM
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/23 06:59:43
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Dan Gonzalez [Cakewalk]
Alright this looks like a pretty crazy issue. I'm gonna dig into this one tomorrow and see what's going on.
Thanks for the insight on this! Awesome! Thanks for looking into this!
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organickloud
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Re: X3: Glitchy sound / CPU overload when tweaking a vst knob with a mouse
2013/10/23 07:31:51
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2:43 AM,
Sorry, can't answer your private message (because 'private messages are disabled for my account", wtf?), so i'm posting it here. I've tried a firewire card and a pci-card and result is the same, glitchy sound both times.
Nick.
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