smallstonefan
Danny - thanks for taking the time to post such detail. I for one enjoyed and appreciated it! :)

the thing is all of these things ARE possible in sd3. the open source drum kit project comes to mind.  there were overhead and mic position fades that you could control via midi ccs.  the problem is that most of these options were hidden unless you opened the sfz files.  unfortunately most drum library developers are either creating for a specific ui or don't want to type a lot of sfz code, so most sd3 libraries wind up flat and not fully exploiting the sfz format potential. pretty much the most you get nowadays are different round robin layers at different velocity levels.  you can totally have recorded overheads and room ambience in a sd3 kit and the ability to automate anything that goes with them, but the development is taxing.  i think if there had ever been a visual sfz editor put on the market (there are free ones, but frankly they suck in a big way) available from rene or cake the format could have taken off.

Danny Danzi

KeniWhat makes AD "sound better"? Is it the drum kits included? I don't believe any one software sounds better than another simply playing back audio clips these days... I've been using a hybrid Slate drum kit in SD3 for quite a while and while I think it sounds great, there are a few features that might make the kits feel more natural such as bleed.... One drum creating a tiny bit of sound when a connected or nearby drum is struck... I'm curious to hear that implemented... But what else is there to make AD special? I believe I can get most of the high end drum kits in SD3 format if I so chose... Please clue me in... Keni 

I'm a drum whore Kenni, so I'll give you my take. LOL! To me, the difference is in how the programs handle the samples. For example, if I route into SD3 with my V-Drums, it sounds like I'm playing through a drum machine. It has limited options for pad control. I use two spots on my hi-hats. The edge and the middle. The two sounds don't appear using SD3. Also, the hats are either all the way open or all the way closed. On other drum modules, I get 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full. This is huge for me. Roboticism: This is my main complaint with SD3. It's a great starter module, but program a fast tom fill in and it resamples. The sounds are not very pro sounding either no matter what package you buy. It's just a module that is too limited to keep up with programs like BFD 3, Superior and *some* elements of AD. AD to me is the next step up from SD3. It has some really nice sounds but even there, there seems to be a retriggering situation that makes the toms seem synthetic to me. Try doing the same thing with BFD 3 some of the NI kits or Superior 2....night and day difference to where you cannot tell you are using a drum module. But I like AD because the sounds are really good. They just aren't so great when you play super fast. But for 90% of the stuff I throw at them, they respond rather well just by using the stock TD-10 or TD-20 mapping right out of the box. So in all actuality, it depends what type of drum style you play. You can make basic beats and simple fills sound good on SD3...but to me it's STILL not a pro sounding drum module. A great starter piece into the world of drum programs, but definitely (sorry Cakewalk) at the bottom of the list for me when you compare the drum kits I use here. For the record....here's my list in order from worst to best and why. SD3: Again, great starter module...some decent sounds, some good upgrade sounds but it just lacks realism, amount of samples per velocity per drum and multi-sample blend abilities. Steven Slate Drums 4: Too much hype and price for too little realism. Kicks and snares are cool.....roboticising is not as bad as SD3, yet is VERY blatant. Toms are some of the worst sounding toms of all time hands down. Cymbals are mediocre at best and have their moments. Addictive Drums: Yeah, would you believe I like them better than Slate? Realism is there, roboticism happens a bit less than Slate and the drums sound pretty darned good. Take the effects off of Slate drums and listen...then do the same with these. Which sounds more like a real drum sitting on your lap? At times...neither. LOL! But I prefer the sound and realism of AD. If only it had more sounds and abilities like Slate's does. But for sound and realism only, this wins. EzDrummer: What can be said about this little gem? It's probably been used on more recordings than any drum program in existence. Why? It works and it's pretty impressive considering the price. It's real, it doesn't roboticise and what you see is what you get. Still a bit fake sounding when you take all the roomy stuff off....but this kit just sounds incredible whether you program it or play it in real time. Velocities on this work wonders. Superior Drummer 2: Sickness! EzDrummer on roids! More combinations and realism than you can shake a stick at. Loads of uses, incredible drum packs, super simple midi learning and set-up, by far one of the best drum modules ever made. Never robotic. NI Drums: Some of their drums are horrendous, but when you find a few kits that really work well, they are so realistic you'll think you mic'd up a real kit. NEVER robotic when you have the right kit. Some of the Abbey stuff is cool....some is lame to me. You'll know when you have the right kit....it will sound better than a real kit. LOL! Midi learn is incredible, realism is great. The only drawback, I absolutely hate Kontakt with every ounce of my being and pray each night that something else takes its place that is easier to use and is also more intuitive. BFD 2/BFD 3: This is the bomb of drum kits, hands down. However, you may not think that when you first fire it up. Why? It's too real. Yes, too real. It sounds like you mic'd a drum set in your room. You'll need to compress it, process it, eq it, effect it and treat is EXACTLY the way you would treat a real drum set in all ways. When you get it where you want it, nothing tops it. It's never robotic...the sounds are incredible...and when you kill all the room stuff, it sounds like a drum on your lap. The cymbals are the best around...the abilities of rim shots and other goodies are just so real, it's scary. The down side is the work it takes to make this monster sound like a processed kit in 2013. It is not Superior or one of those drum programs that will sound like a million bucks right out of the box all processed and compressed. This is the kit that teaches you how to deal with post production drums in a studio environment. The one that YOU make sound like a processed kit. The interface in BFD 2 is a bear, but this is where BFD 3 comes in. It's been streamlined and was built more intuitive. The new stock sound library is REALLY strong. Though to me a lot of these drums sound more like classic rock drums (the way they were mic'd and weren't dampened and mic placed the way I would have done them) you can make them more modern with a little elbow grease and of course the Deluxe pack can help a bit. But these are so real, they make the hair on your arms stand. You just have to work them hard and most people do not have the time for this. Anyway...that's my take as I have lived it. :) Hope some people get a little something out of it. -Danny

Steve (twaddle) you test for fxpansion too?! I don't think we ran into each other over there, did we? Or maybe my memory is failing me? It's so funny what you said about the UI. I was so against the looks of BFD 3 as well as some of the UI stuff that I thought for sure they would boot me off the team. LOL! I know it does a lot more than BFD 2 and is way more intuitive in ways....but man, I don't get the direction they went in for everything else...especially the eye-candy department and where the options are scattered about.
 
Kinda like the new Lincoln...they went from looking majestic and intimidating to small, compact and pretty much like everything else in life...scaled down and lifeless. Heck I posted on the beta forum over at fxpansion "that's why I liked the 80's....it may have looked ridiculous to some people, but we really did take pride in our appearance." or something along those lines. LOL! All that aside, it is an incredible drum program.

twaddle

Steve (twaddle) you test for fxpansion too?! I don't think we ran into each other over there, did we? Or maybe my memory is failing me? It's so funny what you said about the UI. I was so against the looks of BFD 3 as well as some of the UI stuff that I thought for sure they would boot me off the team. LOL! I know it does a lot more than BFD 2 and is way more intuitive in ways....but man, I don't get the direction they went in for everything else...especially the eye-candy department and where the options are scattered about.
 
Kinda like the new Lincoln...they went from looking majestic and intimidating to small, compact and pretty much like everything else in life...scaled down and lifeless. Heck I posted on the beta forum over at fxpansion "that's why I liked the 80's....it may have looked ridiculous to some people, but we really did take pride in our appearance." or something along those lines. LOL! All that aside, it is an incredible drum program.

 
Hi Danny
Yes, I go by the name of purtington on the fx site. I only became a beta tester for BFD3 last November and have really enjoyed it. I reckon if the hours I'd put in had been paid even at minimum wage I could buy the whole fxpasnion product range by now
Not that that has much .to do with my reasons for signing up.
 
Do you go by the name of Danny on their site ? I'm sure I would have noticed if you had.
 
I made a number of hints/suggestions and complaints about the new UI but aside from the drab interface it is a lot easier to use, although for some people easy to use and easy on the eye are one in the same. I was all for keeping the kit view, I had even requested that the kit view would correspond to whatever kit piece was loaded and would change accordingly. I didn't think graphic displays were such a resource hog these days but it seems that was their main reason for abandoning the old kit view and adopting the more basic UI. I just discovered to my surprise that BFD2 is no longer available. I can't believe they'll get rid of those kits so my guess is they'll release them as an expansion pack like they did with Eldorado for the BFD1 kit.
 
You're right, it is an incredible drum program and despite having other options like EZdrummer and addictive drums all of my projects use BFD2 (now BFD3).
I just toy with the others occasionally just so I know what I'm talking about when I argue the case for BFD2. I have a genetically built in resistance to using loops or anything that I haven't created myself from scratch and as time consuming and frustrating as it can be I love the fact that I can do that so easily in BFD2/3. I'm a song writer and 9 times out of 10 I have a pretty good idea how the drums should be and it's a lot easier (all be it in my head) to create them in the prv than spend hours trawling through loops that "claim to be" in the style I write in.
 
Steve
 
 

Bajan Blue
Bfalt - you have download midi files that are specific for Addictive Drums _ for Groove Monkee and Platinum for example, they have specific mapped downloads for AD.
Cheers
Nigel
 

Bflat5
The midi files I have works great with ezdrummer, but is completely wrong in AD. It's like the cymblas are playing the drum parts. Strange and I'm not sure how to fix it.

Blades
Hey Danny - how is the Roland TD triggering?  As you can see in the avatar, I've got a kit (TD-20 + tdw-20 card) and I've NEVER been satisfied with the triggering of anything other than the module.  the hats don't work right, there always seems to be some kind of sacrifice to even try to use any of the sound modules.  And in the end, the loss of nuance like hits near the edge of the head, choking cymbals, hi-hat subtleties, and many other things lead me back to the module.  It would be nice if there were options for me to use outside of the module once in a while - though I actually like the way the TDW-20 sounds for the most part and can get just about anything I want out of it.
 
So - how is that triggering with AD out of the box?  Still waiting to "earn" a but more through my website to justify itself so I can make the purchase, but this is one of the things that interests me about the X3 version.  Thoughts are appreciated.

Blades
Danny - it isn't that the triggering doesn't work.  It's that the nuances don't.  Seems to me that the things like SD3 and Steven Slate, for example from the last Sonar, don't pay any attention to the things that are closer to the edge of the head vs the middle except for the velocity.  On the brain itself, the actual timbre changes.  With the hit-hats, it seems that there is open and there is closed - maybe there would be bow vs edge, but not the variations that make the hats sound real at all.  I'm using the full - open/close hats (VH-12?), not the static pad and with the brain, I can get most of the subtlety I need, where for the "sample sets" it seems like it's a few different hits and frustrating to play.
 
Also, having the tdw-20 card in the td-20 definitely helps with some of the tones.  I don't have the bucks to spend on BFD or the like and I've not been terribly impressed with what I've heard in the "best circumstances" let alone what I might get here, so I've "passed" on those.  I do agree that the td-8, td-10 (card or not) and the original td-20 are somewhat obvious in their sounds but the tdw-20 added a lot to the realism to me.
 
So, yes all the head hits seem to work, the rim hits generally do as well.  The cymbal hits work but usually the edge hits seem to be mapped like they are a different cymbal not the edge of the same one - and forget about the swells.
 
It just seems that very time I get a new "toy" to play with, I think it's cool and then I try to really dig in and I end up disappointed and go back to just using the brain and mixing either with its raw sounds and adding effects or occasionally just using the kit right from the brain.
 
Thanks for your input.

Danny Danzi
 
 
Steven Slate Drums 4: Too much hype and price for too little realism. Kicks and snares are cool.....roboticising is not as bad as SD3, yet is VERY blatant. Toms are some of the worst sounding toms of all time hands down. Cymbals are mediocre at best and have their moments.
 
 
-Danny

Danny Danzi
 
I'm also a drummer and have been recording and working with samples for a very long time....so I too know what drums sound like. I'd be interested in hearing your buzz rolls on SSD4 toms. As I said, kicks and snares are cool....the toms sound and react quite bad. There's nothing that I'm doing wrong. It's more than just a velocity problem, it's a lack of samples PER velocity that makes them roboticise on the toms. Even if you pulled it off and I congratulated you, I wouldn't like those toms any better. They are, in my opinion, some of the worst sounding toms ever stemming back to SSD3. I just don't like them at all. Ever kill all the room stuff on the Slate drums? Sounds like a drum machine to me without the room/over-heads. No offense man, I just don't like them or anything SS puts out. If I listed all my issues with Slate stuff, you'd understand better but I'll spare you. It's just not for me and I've spent quite a bit on it. Never again.
 
-Danny