Helpful ReplyYamaha P80 + ?

Author
Leizer
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 446
  • Joined: 2012/04/26 16:08:57
  • Location: Sweden
  • Status: offline
2017/11/14 00:26:10 (permalink)

Yamaha P80 + ?

I like to hear your thoughts and experiences regarding this matter:
 
I used to have a Studiologic master keyboard connected to my AI but after almost 20 years it was worn out. I now use my wifes Yamaha P-80 digital piano - a decent piano with a really nice weighted key feeling. However, there are no controllers at all, so everything must be edited in SONAR afterwards. I like the weighted 88-keyboard for practice or piano recordings, but need something else when e.g. recording expressive/modulated Eastwest orchestra stuff. I think a 49-keyed controller will be enough for such recordings. Budget is around 300$.
 
The P-80 has no MIDI through, a controller like M-Audio Oxygen 49 has. Can I connect the P-80 --> Oxygen 49 --> Focusrite card and use both keyboards at the same time, or at least alter the keyboards without any change of settings?
 
The P-80 has a "...to host"-connection that, if I had understood correctly, could be connected to the serial port. If I want a keyboard without MIDI through (e.g. Alesis VX49 with the neat VST functionality) connected via MIDI to my AI, and the P-80 connected to serial port, will both be working properly in SONAR (latency etc)?
 
Another alternative is not to have another keyboard, just the controller part of it. Like Behringer FCB1010 MIDI Foot Controller, or Behringer X-Touch MINI. No sliders or wheels there, but actually I didn't like wheels control so a rotary control could do.
 
I'm saving to buy a RME UCX (with totalmixFX) so that's another thing to consider regarding a user-friendly controller well suited for the situation.
 
Thoughts? Any other ideas, solutions or hardware suggestions?

Dell i7-2600 3,40 Ghz, 16Gb RAM // SX1 drive: 240 Gb SSD // Windows 7 64 Bit // SONAR Platinum 64 bit // Focusrite Saffire 6 USB // KORG D888 Mixer // Roland JV-2080 MIDI synth // Guitars, basses, violins etc.
 
https://soundcloud.com/lasse-williamsson
#1
Cactus Music
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 8424
  • Joined: 2004/02/09 21:34:04
  • Status: offline
Re: Yamaha P80 + ? 2017/11/14 04:06:09 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Leizer 2017/11/14 14:01:47
I use a Roland A49 controller as I liked the feel of the keys compared to most that they had in the store. A lot of the brands are real cheap feeling. Yamaha, Korg and Roland have been making keyboards for a long time and those all feel real solid to me. I have a Akai Synth station 25 I picked up for $30 on sale and it's a toy. I can't really play it properly.   
Any how I like the size of my little A49 it fits on my computer side desk. It has the basic controller wheels as well as a very easy to use Tranpose system. You can send patch changes and stuff but I don't use those features , I could see it would be handy playing live. 
If you actually play a keyboard, you'll want it to feel right, just like a guitar. 

Johnny V  
Cakelab  
Focusrite 6i61st - Tascam us1641. 
3 Desktops and 3 Laptops W7 and W10
 http://www.cactusmusic.ca/
 
 
#2
JonD
Max Output Level: -39 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3617
  • Joined: 2003/12/09 11:09:10
  • Location: East of Santa Monica
  • Status: offline
Re: Yamaha P80 + ? 2017/11/14 04:12:40 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby Leizer 2017/11/14 14:04:53
Leizer
 
..... Can I connect the P-80 --> Oxygen 49 --> Focusrite card and use both keyboards at the same time, or at least alter the keyboards without any change of settings?



This should be a viable setup. Another option is to get a 2/2 midi interface (start @ $30) and have each keyboard going into its own midi input.
 
I wouldn't bother with the host connection (Does your PC even have a serial port?). 

SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
#3
Leizer
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 446
  • Joined: 2012/04/26 16:08:57
  • Location: Sweden
  • Status: offline
Re: Yamaha P80 + ? 2017/11/14 14:06:18 (permalink)
JonD
 
I wouldn't bother with the host connection (Does your PC even have a serial port?). 


Haha, when you say it that way... no idea!

Dell i7-2600 3,40 Ghz, 16Gb RAM // SX1 drive: 240 Gb SSD // Windows 7 64 Bit // SONAR Platinum 64 bit // Focusrite Saffire 6 USB // KORG D888 Mixer // Roland JV-2080 MIDI synth // Guitars, basses, violins etc.
 
https://soundcloud.com/lasse-williamsson
#4
Leizer
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 446
  • Joined: 2012/04/26 16:08:57
  • Location: Sweden
  • Status: offline
Re: Yamaha P80 + ? 2017/11/14 14:18:29 (permalink)
Cactus Music
I use a Roland A49 controller as I liked the feel of the keys compared to most that they had in the store. A lot of the brands are real cheap feeling. Yamaha, Korg and Roland have been making keyboards for a long time and those all feel real solid to me. I have a Akai Synth station 25 I picked up for $30 on sale and it's a toy. I can't really play it properly.   
Any how I like the size of my little A49 it fits on my computer side desk. It has the basic controller wheels as well as a very easy to use Tranpose system. You can send patch changes and stuff but I don't use those features , I could see it would be handy playing live. 
If you actually play a keyboard, you'll want it to feel right, just like a guitar. 


Good tip about the A49, I have had two Roland units earlier - both rock solid (D10 and JV-2080). I guess I have to use the USB connection in that case, if not going for Jon's idea about a MIDI interface.
 
Edit: And I saw it has the classic Roland wheel that D10 had! Still feel like I'm more used to that one vs the more common vertical one though I have had a Fatar keyboard since -97...

Dell i7-2600 3,40 Ghz, 16Gb RAM // SX1 drive: 240 Gb SSD // Windows 7 64 Bit // SONAR Platinum 64 bit // Focusrite Saffire 6 USB // KORG D888 Mixer // Roland JV-2080 MIDI synth // Guitars, basses, violins etc.
 
https://soundcloud.com/lasse-williamsson
#5
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3297
  • Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
  • Location: Germany
  • Status: offline
Re: Yamaha P80 + ? 2017/11/14 17:15:24 (permalink)
I also will not use serial connections these days.
But why you want connect Oxygen (and alike, I mean modern controllers) throw Focusrite? It should work fine on USB and keep Focusrite MIDI for P80. Some controllers will loose a part of functionality when not connected throw USB and some do not have MIDI at all. There is a rumor USB can be less responsive then AI MIDI, sometimes, something really does that (unclear what and when), but that is unusual.
Unlike ASIO Audio, all MIDI devices can be used in parallel, independent from the connection type.
 
Note about "knobs": controllers like X-Touch have encoders, while "simple" controllers have normal 270 degree knobs. Encoders are good for controlling the DAW and automatable plug-in parameters, since when you switch between tracks/plug-ins/parameters, you do not need to "catch" right position first, they are always in "sync" with current value. But for live controlling some parameter and "MIDI Learn" inside plug-ins (and so record changes into MIDI clip instead of track automations), encoders can be less convenient to use because of the "raster"/coarse resolution and no start and end physical points.

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
#6
Beagle
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 50621
  • Joined: 2006/03/29 11:03:12
  • Location: Fort Worth, TX
  • Status: offline
Re: Yamaha P80 + ? 2017/11/14 18:00:45 (permalink)
just to clarify - USB IS a serial port (Universal Serial Bus).  Maybe what you mean is that you wouldn't use an RS-232 port these days?

http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
i7, 16G DDR3, Win10x64, MOTU Ultralite Hybrid MK3
Yamaha MOXF6, Hammond XK3c, other stuff.
#7
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3297
  • Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
  • Location: Germany
  • Status: offline
Re: Yamaha P80 + ? 2017/11/14 18:35:45 (permalink)
Beagle
just to clarify - USB IS a serial port (Universal Serial Bus).  Maybe what you mean is that you wouldn't use an RS-232 port these days?

Sure, that is in the OP context (since P80 has no USB).
 
EDIT: I do not claim I am not going to use modern computers, which in general use serial communications...

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
#8
Leizer
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 446
  • Joined: 2012/04/26 16:08:57
  • Location: Sweden
  • Status: offline
Re: Yamaha P80 + ? 2017/11/14 21:02:10 (permalink)
azslow3
I also will not use serial connections these days.
But why you want connect Oxygen (and alike, I mean modern controllers) throw Focusrite?

Just ignorance from my part. My hunch has been that USB is worse than MIDI and doubt of mixing USB/MIDI, glad to have that sorted out.

It should work fine on USB and keep Focusrite MIDI for P80. Some controllers will loose a part of functionality when not connected throw USB and some do not have MIDI at all. There is a rumor USB can be less responsive then AI MIDI, sometimes, something really does that (unclear what and when), but that is unusual.
Unlike ASIO Audio, all MIDI devices can be used in parallel, independent from the connection type.

Great! Will the USB keyboard work independently of the MIDI keyboard (and even at the same time - e.g. a 4-handed recording)?
 

Note about "knobs": controllers like X-Touch have encoders, while "simple" controllers have normal 270 degree knobs. Encoders are good for controlling the DAW and automatable plug-in parameters, since when you switch between tracks/plug-ins/parameters, you do not need to "catch" right position first, they are always in "sync" with current value. But for live controlling some parameter and "MIDI Learn" inside plug-ins (and so record changes into MIDI clip instead of track automations), encoders can be less convenient to use because of the "raster"/coarse resolution and no start and end physical points.

Good point. The X-touch is obviously not what I need.

Dell i7-2600 3,40 Ghz, 16Gb RAM // SX1 drive: 240 Gb SSD // Windows 7 64 Bit // SONAR Platinum 64 bit // Focusrite Saffire 6 USB // KORG D888 Mixer // Roland JV-2080 MIDI synth // Guitars, basses, violins etc.
 
https://soundcloud.com/lasse-williamsson
#9
Leizer
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 446
  • Joined: 2012/04/26 16:08:57
  • Location: Sweden
  • Status: offline
Re: Yamaha P80 + ? 2017/11/14 21:11:52 (permalink)
Is anyone recording modulation and expression at the same time? Obviously you must have one foot pedal (expression) to be able to play anything on the keyboard (if you don't want to use your nose).
 
In the Roland A49, can modulation be assigned to one of the knobs? Or is it only aftertouch that can be assigned? Didnt find any clear answers about that.

Dell i7-2600 3,40 Ghz, 16Gb RAM // SX1 drive: 240 Gb SSD // Windows 7 64 Bit // SONAR Platinum 64 bit // Focusrite Saffire 6 USB // KORG D888 Mixer // Roland JV-2080 MIDI synth // Guitars, basses, violins etc.
 
https://soundcloud.com/lasse-williamsson
#10
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 3297
  • Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
  • Location: Germany
  • Status: offline
Re: Yamaha P80 + ? 2017/11/14 21:52:05 (permalink)
From the A49 user manual, knobs, button, pedals and D-Beam can be assigned to control arbitrary CC or aftertouch.
What I have not found are either knobs are encoders or not. They look almost equivalent to the encoder on my A500S... but they are referenced as "knobs" elsewhere.
I would not like to control parameters by A500S encoder, it is perfect for choosing the program and can set the volume once, but it is tiny, has heavy turn and explicit "ticks".

Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro
GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB
RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc.
www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
#11
Leizer
Max Output Level: -82 dBFS
  • Total Posts : 446
  • Joined: 2012/04/26 16:08:57
  • Location: Sweden
  • Status: offline
Re: Yamaha P80 + ? 2017/12/08 21:34:46 (permalink)
UPDATE: Since last time I have been to a music store and got a briefing of the A49. Seems to be a great quality controller, and together with a EV-5 pedal it is well suited for my needs. Then came the disappoinment by Gibson... and I felt like I ran out of wind for a while. But as been written in zillions of threads SONAR will probably work for a long time, and there will be replacement DAWs waiting for me. So a Roland A-49+ EV-5 it is!
 
azslow3
From the A49 user manual, knobs, button, pedals and D-Beam can be assigned to control arbitrary CC or aftertouch.
What I have not found are either knobs are encoders or not. They look almost equivalent to the encoder on my A500S... but they are referenced as "knobs" elsewhere.
I would not like to control parameters by A500S encoder, it is perfect for choosing the program and can set the volume once, but it is tiny, has heavy turn and explicit "ticks".

Thanks! I asked about the knobs, and they are not encoders. They turn softly, not with ticks.

Dell i7-2600 3,40 Ghz, 16Gb RAM // SX1 drive: 240 Gb SSD // Windows 7 64 Bit // SONAR Platinum 64 bit // Focusrite Saffire 6 USB // KORG D888 Mixer // Roland JV-2080 MIDI synth // Guitars, basses, violins etc.
 
https://soundcloud.com/lasse-williamsson
#12
Jump to:
© 2024 APG vNext Commercial Version 5.1