mixmkr
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Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
Will try and keep this short, but I imagine might apply to many others..
I'm running 7.02PE in WinXP w/ P4 and 2gigs of Ram. Works great. Crashes about every 50 hours at most, but 1/2 of the times, I might induce, mousing around too quick. Ancient machine, old Sonar.. but I know it WELL and it doesn't limit me at this point. The features I use - I have down cold. I use Superior 2 and all the Cake synths...nothing really more.
By my figuring, I need to invest about $3.5K to really make a useful jump. I will NOT build my own machine.
-$2k for a good future proof machine from our friends here
-$350+ to get me current will all the latest Sonar
-$500++ for Omnisphere as a treat and maybe something like Melodyne
I will for now clean all the old plugs I hardly ever use and start JUST with Cake's stuff. I know their quality won't limit my efforts.
I could be happy with my setup now for another year or so... but I don't like missing out on current stuff, seems I would love the ProChannel... all that good stuff. But, I see to really do it right to spend a couple of G's if not actually a bit more.
So...it really is an investment.
For those going "up the ladder" with Sonar, do you see X"2" as a significant leap from your older version? I'm not expecting a change in the audio quality...just the ease in getting their quicker with the way Sonar is now. Remember..is this $3500 better?
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Bill Jackson [Cakewalk]
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/16 20:12:45
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Hi mixmkr, I'm probably not who you want to hear from. But... from an insider's point of view: X1 and X2's design has been highly focused on exactly what you referenced: Making it easy to get there quicker. Less "managing your DAW" and more being creative. The ProChannel is a big part of that. If you click on a track, the ProChannel updates in the inspector. Much less hunting for for a plug-in and managing windows floating over your track view. You always have what you need, when you need it. We also have a multidock now, which holds all of your open views in tabs. An example of how it helps: If you double-click a MIDI clip, it shows up there. Nothing unexpected, no new window popping up, nothing for you to manage. There are screensets. You set your view up so that you're looking at exactly what you want to be looking at. Save that as a screenset and lock it. Next time you want to get back to that view, just type the "1" key, and your back. You can have 10 screensets. So much time has been wasted changing snap to grid settings in the past. It's just one of those things that's constantly interrupting your creative flow. In X2, we have "Smart Grid." This makes an educated guess at what you're intended snap resolution is, and does it for you. I've spent hours editing in X2 without touching snap options once. There's also Auto Track Zoom. You can enable this and never worry about track height management, and zooming around. Time Ruler Zoom is also a major time saver. It allows you to zero in on the data you want to see VERY quickly. I've been using SONAR on a daily basis since version 2. X1 was a bit jarring, as it was a big change, where things were moved around a bit. So be prepared to re-learn a little. X2 really drives it home, though. Many things are much much easier and more accessible. Check out Seths "Transition Video" here, if you haven't already: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xw5z9BKWD-I. It provides a great overview of how ergonomic SONAR X2 is, compared to previous versions, and even other DAWs. Hope this helps.
Bill Jackson Product Manager Cakewalk
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Mystic38
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/16 22:22:29
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your numbers are whacked (lol sorry but no better way to put it) ..this is NOT a $3500 decision.
there is no such thing as a future proof pc and you can get a screaming i7 machine from ebay for $800...probably 20x better than you have now.. spending more is a waste, and u can add extra drives or ssd later if u wish.
so.. its $1000 for a win7 pc with i7, 8-2g ram and 1T drive with Sonar x2 (as the upgrade from 7pe is $199)
thats $1000.. and you will have far more content and soft synths than right now...then get omnispere if u wish
really its a no brainer... 7PE is like the dark ages.... its like ..you can sail across the atlantic in a 26ft boat.. but why would you :)
HPE-580T with i7-950, 8G, 1.5T, ATI6850, Win7/64, Motu 828 III Hybrid, Motu Midi Express, Sonar Platinum, Komplete 9, Ableton Live 9 & Push 2, Melodyne Editor and other stuff, KRK VXT8 Monitors Virus Ti2 Polar, Fantom G6, Yamaha S70XS, Novation Nova, Novation Nova II, Korg MS2000, Waldorf Micro Q, NI Maschine Studio, TC-VoiceLive Rack, 2012 Gibson Les Paul Standard, 2001 Gibson Les Paul DC, 1999 Fender Am Hardtail Strat, Fender Blues Jr, Orange TH30/PPC212, Tak EF360GF, one mic, no talent.
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Funkybot
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/16 22:28:17
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As an X2 user who came directly to X2 from 8.5, let me say this: X2 was a big step forward from X1, but there's still room for some major workflow improvements:
1. The GUI feels bigger. The mixer channels in particular, but even the main inspector (global toolbar).
2. The size of the mixer should scale when docked. For instance, if docked at the bottom or the top, I should have access to the full length of the volume fader, a pan pot, and the Mute/Solo buttons.
3. I'd like better effect to effect navigation (like Studio One and/or Logic) where you can be in one channel's effect and jump right to another effect in that channel directly from the plugin menu.
4. I'd like instrument to instrument navigation from the plugin menu too.
5. Better routing. I'd like to feed an audio or instrument track's output to the input of another track. Any audio out should be able to be routed to one or more audio ins.
6. One pass bouncing on multi-output instruments. If I have a 16 out Kontakt score and want to freeze it, Sonar does 16 bounces. It should do 1. I don't have that much time to wait for it to bounce. Same for something like BFD2.
7. Make Snap more intuitive. The interaction between the PRV Snap, the Global Snap, and the Event Duration items has created some confusion. I see what you guys are trying, but it's still too hard. I need to be able to use key bindings to change Snap lengths as well as event durations.
8. I need to open the "Track Template" folder to see Track Templates in the browser. I'd just like them to appear as an option like VST effects/instruments without having to open a separate folder. Same should probably be done for FX chains.
That said, there's some big plusses. Just off the top of my head:
1. Love drag and drop instruments/effects (might have been an X1)
2. Love, love, love keysets. These make up for some of the shortcomings about the large GUI.
3. Can't get enough of the Smart Tool
4. Full screen mode is fantastic
5. The step sequencer, arpeggiator, and matrix view all seem much more usable now
6. Aim assist feels obvious in hindsight, but was a well thought out addition
7. Consolidated Preferences and menu items based on the view were also nice touches
8. Don't know how I lived without the FX Enable/Disable button before
9. The ability to copy screensets from other open projects was also sweet
Anyway...a nice upgrade though there's always room for improvement.
Hopefully this post helps the OP, and maybe even Cakewalk.
Intel i7 4790k, ASUS Z97-A mobo, 16GB Kingston DDR3 RAM, Windows 10 x64, UAD2 Duo, RME Fireface 800, Sonar X1/X2 Producer
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Rooftree
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/16 23:06:17
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$2k for a good custom-built DAW PC sounds about right. I carefully put my own PC together 2 years ago and it cost me $1400, as compared to maybe a bit under $2000 for something comparable from a custom DAW builder. But it was a LOT of work, so I can see the value in letting somebody else build the machine.
Using your math, I'd say that this is a $2350 decision, not $3500. The cost of the DAW PC and Sonar upgrade are the only things that matter. If the new PC allows you to buy pricier extras (Omnisphere, etc.), that's nice, but it doesn't mean that you HAVE to spend the full $3500.
I started with Sonar 8, then upgraded to 8.5PE, and finally upgraded to X2 a couple of days ago. I'm very happy with X2 and I'm glad that I waited until now.
So is X2 $2350 better than 7.02PE? I doubt it, especially since you sound mostly content with your current setup. But you'll be forced to upgrade your hardware at some point. And you'll enjoy upgrading your software eventually. As I see it, the real question is: Is this the right time to spend the money? Or should you wait a year or two?
Since X2 was a couple of years in the making I doubt if anything significant will come from Cakewalk in the next year. So it's either upgrade now, or stick it out for a couple of years until the next significant software upgrade comes along.
Sonar X2 Producer : Win 7 Pro 64 bit : i7-930 : 6GB RAM : Edirol UA-25EX
DimPro : Minimoog V : Lounge Lizard
Prophet 08 : Juno-60 : Odyssey : CS-30 : TR-606 : Korg 01W
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Bub 
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/16 23:31:33
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Here's my experience with X2 ...
I'm running an Intel i5 Quad core with 4GB RAM.
M-Audio Fast Track Ultra
Windows 7 x64
Sonar X2 Producer x64
I can run an 18 audio track project with a few modules active in the Pro Channel on each track ... then my system dies and I have to start freezing tracks, which I usually only have to do with things like Session Drummer 3 and Dim Pro. Seems to me, X1 allowed me to run more things before I had to freeze.
So my advice, get the biggest, baddest, fastest DAW you can afford, from folks such as Studio Cat or others. I always build my own, but I'm not going to any more. I want someone I can go back to when things don't work ... and it inevitably happens. I've only had one DAW over the years that didn't give me a lick of trouble.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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JonD
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/17 00:40:45
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Bub
Here's my experience with X2 ...
I'm running an Intel i5 Quad core with 4GB RAM.
M-Audio Fast Track Ultra
Windows 7 x64
Sonar X2 Producer x64
I can run an 18 audio track project with a few modules active in the Pro Channel on each track ... then my system dies and I have to start freezing tracks, which I usually only have to do with things like Session Drummer 3 and Dim Pro. Seems to me, X1 allowed me to run more things before I had to freeze.
So my advice, get the biggest, baddest, fastest DAW you can afford, from folks such as Studio Cat or others. I always build my own, but I'm not going to any more. I want someone I can go back to when things don't work ... and it inevitably happens. I've only had one DAW over the years that didn't give me a lick of trouble.
Bub, your system should be capable of a lot more than the load you describe (Unless you're running multiple instances of huge ram-hog VSTs like Omnisphere, Superior Drummer 2, etc)... Which leads me to my next point... You need more ram. My system can handle about the same as what you describe (roughly), and it is ancient compared to yours (Specs are in my sig). Note that I have 8GB of ram. That is the key. If you use soft synths (and it seems that you do), upgrade your ram to 8 or 12GB -- you'll definitely notice a difference. 
SonarPlat/CWbBL, Win 10 Pro, i7 2600K, Asus P8Z68 Deluxe, 16GB DDR3, Radeon HD5450, TC Electronic Impact Twin, Kawai MP11 Piano, Event ALP Monitors, Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro, Too Many Plugins, My lucky hat.
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sharke
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/17 01:32:36
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I haven't looked into this fully with Sonar yet but can you choose how many cores it uses? When I used Pro Tools it would crash less if I set it to use 4 cores instead of my available 6. I guess because you're then reserving 2 cores for the OS?
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chrisharbin
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/17 02:20:58
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see my specs below. Sonar run ok on that (not as efficient as reaper, but certainly FAR better than let's say studio on. The only thing with my system is that cpu usage is weird. It's been explained by cake many times but it's still weird. I will draw hard on the first core (I have 8) and then start moving things over to other cores as the project gets bigger. Some hosts peg the first core leaving the others largely unused (hello, S1? :P ) Anyways, newer machines are faster so you should be able to get a good i7 and the trimings for far under the prices you are mentioning. I have 8 GB of ram and for me it's enough (even with stuff like SD, omniphere and trilian all at once.
i7 860/MSI mobo/8GB ram/win7x64ultimate/X2/profire 610/oxygen 61/running 48k currently.
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Marcus Curtis
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/17 03:33:53
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mixmkr
Will try and keep this short, but I imagine might apply to many others..
I'm running 7.02PE in WinXP w/ P4 and 2gigs of Ram. Works great. Crashes about every 50 hours at most, but 1/2 of the times, I might induce, mousing around too quick. Ancient machine, old Sonar.. but I know it WELL and it doesn't limit me at this point. The features I use - I have down cold. I use Superior 2 and all the Cake synths...nothing really more.
By my figuring, I need to invest about $3.5K to really make a useful jump. I will NOT build my own machine.
-$2k for a good future proof machine from our friends here
-$350+ to get me current will all the latest Sonar
-$500++ for Omnisphere as a treat and maybe something like Melodyne
I will for now clean all the old plugs I hardly ever use and start JUST with Cake's stuff. I know their quality won't limit my efforts.
I could be happy with my setup now for another year or so... but I don't like missing out on current stuff, seems I would love the ProChannel... all that good stuff. But, I see to really do it right to spend a couple of G's if not actually a bit more.
So...it really is an investment.
For those going "up the ladder" with Sonar, do you see X"2" as a significant leap from your older version? I'm not expecting a change in the audio quality...just the ease in getting their quicker with the way Sonar is now. Remember..is this $3500 better?
I have used Sonar 7.2 PE. I still have my copy. There was a noticeable difference in audio quality just going to Sonar 8. Sonar x2 is a significant leap from X1 first with auto zoom and other work flow enhancements. Things are done at a faster more intuitive pace. but since you have Sonar 7 let me give you a few highlights in your upgrade. I will give you 10 reasons to upgrade. 1. Dimension Pro full version (if you don't already have it) 2. Rapture Full version (if you don't already have that) 3. session Drummer 3 (much better than session drummer 2) The steven slate kits alone are awesome. 4. TH2 producer addition. If you play or record guitar this thing rocks! 5. Breverb- This is a great sounding reverb 6. Pro Channel 7. FX chains- The new FX chains in X2 will fit in the pro channel 8. better export. The mix sounds better after it is exported (don't know why that is or what they have done to improve it) 9. Console emulation (let me just say OMG) 10 R-mix and the list goes on The latest version of Sonar x2 P.E. will only cost you 199.00 This is because you are already a Sonar 7 PE user and that would be the upgrade price for you. http://www.store.cakewalk.com/b2cus/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=10-CXSP2.00-20E Spending 2 grand on a computer to run Sonar is kind of steep. I can build one for 1,500.00 max If you shop around you can find one with good system specs for around 1,400 to 1,600. That would be more than enough under the hood to do what you need. I only spent 800.00 on mine and you can see my system specs below. But you would want an Intel i7 not an AMD. My computer works fine but if you are talking about spending the kind of money in your budget numbers you might as well get the best So now we are looking at 1,800.00 to 2,200 tops with the computer and Sonar X2. (depending on where you get your computer) With the extra cash you could buy another monitor or maybe Ozone 5. and still stay within your 3.5 k budget.
http://www.marcuscurtismusic.com/ Windows 10 ultimate, Sonar Platinum, AMD Phenom 2 x6 1075T processor 3.00 GHz, (6 cores) 8 gigs of Ram, Audio interfaces=VS-100, Pod X3 live pro, Boss GT-100, Boss GP10 Midi Controllers=Edirol PCR 800, roland GR-55. Ozone 7, Podfarm, Th2 Full Version, Melda, True Pianos Full Version, and a whole bunch of free VST plugins which can be found through my site.
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Kalle Rantaaho
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/17 03:42:35
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Bub
Here's my experience with X2 ...
I'm running an Intel i5 Quad core with 4GB RAM.
M-Audio Fast Track Ultra
Windows 7 x64
Sonar X2 Producer x64
I can run an 18 audio track project with a few modules active in the Pro Channel on each track ... then my system dies and I have to start freezing tracks, which I usually only have to do with things like Session Drummer 3 and Dim Pro. Seems to me, X1 allowed me to run more things before I had to freeze.
So my advice, get the biggest, baddest, fastest DAW you can afford, from folks such as Studio Cat or others. I always build my own, but I'm not going to any more. I want someone I can go back to when things don't work ... and it inevitably happens. I've only had one DAW over the years that didn't give me a lick of trouble.
Sounds a little sticky, IMO. Look at my specs - 32 bit, dual core with 3 Gb RAM - in PE 8.5 I can run 15 audio tracks + 15 MIDI tracks (say Kontakt with 4 outs+Addictive Drums with 3 outs+ManyBass + some lighter soft synths) + at least a dozen audio FX (EQs, compressors, choruses) quite fluently with CPU usage below 50%. Above those figures I freeze Kontakt. When I add, say, Vocal Strip and Perfect Space on top of that, I need to freeze more. I do realise, though, that Pro Channel is surely quite a heavy tool on the CPU. But your system is so much faster than mine.
SONAR PE 8.5.3, Asus P5B, 2,4 Ghz Dual Core, 4 Gb RAM, GF 7300, EMU 1820, Bluetube Pre - Kontakt4, Ozone, Addictive Drums, PSP Mixpack2, Melda Creative Pack, Melodyne Plugin etc. The benefit of being a middle aged amateur is the low number of years of frustration ahead of you.
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Marcus Curtis
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/17 03:56:25
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A quick search on dell brought up their best computer XPS8500 system specs are I7 3.90 Ghz processor 12 gigs of ram Windows 8 2 TB hard drive 7200 spindle speed blue ray combo drive all for just 1299. I bet you can convince them to throw in free shipping.
Add Sonar X2 PE and now you are talking about a 1,500.00 purchase. Now buy an additional monitor, Ozone for mastering, and Omnisphere and you are still at 2,500 saving you around $1,000.00!
http://www.marcuscurtismusic.com/ Windows 10 ultimate, Sonar Platinum, AMD Phenom 2 x6 1075T processor 3.00 GHz, (6 cores) 8 gigs of Ram, Audio interfaces=VS-100, Pod X3 live pro, Boss GT-100, Boss GP10 Midi Controllers=Edirol PCR 800, roland GR-55. Ozone 7, Podfarm, Th2 Full Version, Melda, True Pianos Full Version, and a whole bunch of free VST plugins which can be found through my site.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/17 04:38:42
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Bub
Here's my experience with X2 ...
I'm running an Intel i5 Quad core with 4GB RAM.
M-Audio Fast Track Ultra
Windows 7 x64
Sonar X2 Producer x64
I can run an 18 audio track project with a few modules active in the Pro Channel on each track ... then my system dies and I have to start freezing tracks, which I usually only have to do with things like Session Drummer 3 and Dim Pro. Seems to me, X1 allowed me to run more things before I had to freeze.
So my advice, get the biggest, baddest, fastest DAW you can afford, from folks such as Studio Cat or others. I always build my own, but I'm not going to any more. I want someone I can go back to when things don't work ... and it inevitably happens. I've only had one DAW over the years that didn't give me a lick of trouble.
There's definitely something wrong here. I could load a 75 track project with 100+ plugins, BFD2, MANY live V-Vocal clips on my old Q6700 under WinXP32 with 4Gb of RAM without having to freeze anything.
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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Marcus Curtis
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/17 05:07:26
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Bristol_Jonesey
Bub
Here's my experience with X2 ...
I'm running an Intel i5 Quad core with 4GB RAM.
M-Audio Fast Track Ultra
Windows 7 x64
Sonar X2 Producer x64
I can run an 18 audio track project with a few modules active in the Pro Channel on each track ... then my system dies and I have to start freezing tracks, which I usually only have to do with things like Session Drummer 3 and Dim Pro. Seems to me, X1 allowed me to run more things before I had to freeze.
So my advice, get the biggest, baddest, fastest DAW you can afford, from folks such as Studio Cat or others. I always build my own, but I'm not going to any more. I want someone I can go back to when things don't work ... and it inevitably happens. I've only had one DAW over the years that didn't give me a lick of trouble.
There's definitely something wrong here.
I could load a 75 track project with 100+ plugins, BFD2, MANY live V-Vocal clips on my old Q6700 under WinXP32 with 4Gb of RAM without having to freeze anything.
Compare your system specs with bub. You have an i7 with 32 gigs of ram. he has an i5 with 4 gigs of ram. An easy fix for bub would be to add more ram. This should help his system and he should avoid the dreaded virtual ram simulation on his hard drive when he goes over 18 tracks. I would add at least 4 gigs of ram. This should greatly improve his system I get better performance using my AMD, but the i5 is a better processor. but I have more ram. I think that is one of the main differences. An upgrade in the audio interface may also help improve things. Check out the fast track review http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2401602,00.asp
http://www.marcuscurtismusic.com/ Windows 10 ultimate, Sonar Platinum, AMD Phenom 2 x6 1075T processor 3.00 GHz, (6 cores) 8 gigs of Ram, Audio interfaces=VS-100, Pod X3 live pro, Boss GT-100, Boss GP10 Midi Controllers=Edirol PCR 800, roland GR-55. Ozone 7, Podfarm, Th2 Full Version, Melda, True Pianos Full Version, and a whole bunch of free VST plugins which can be found through my site.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/17 05:25:51
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Marcus, I was explaining what I could run on my old system, not my new one
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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ProjectM
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/17 08:51:27
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I use Nuendo almost daily at a studio I work for. And I'm not going to go into the details but I am tearing my hair out of the lack of streamlining, and workflow in the basic functionality of Nuendo - which also translates to Cubase. Steinberg's offerings have some awesome features but nothing that can't be accomplished in Sonar. Sonar is just a whole lot more elegant (IMHO) in the every day use. The only thing I envy is the deep audio editor and the excellent video and network service in Nuendo. My own DAW and the Nuendo DAW are simmilar in specs. Both perform equally well. But Sonar is a breeze to use, fast, elegant and stable. Nuendo is not as fast, not quite as elegant but perform great - besides the 10 times or so every day when it refuses to play any audio at all and I have to restart everything. Live, FL Studio and Reason is IMO not quite comparable to Sonar but makes awesome partners in your digital creativity. My $2 IMO and so forth... 
(Sonar Platinum - Win10 x64) - iMac and 13" MacBook - Logic Pro X ++ - UA Apollo Twin DUO - NI Maschine MKII - NI Komplete Kontrol S61 - Novation Nocturne - KRK Rokit 6 SoundcloudNegative Vibe Records
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Marcus Curtis
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Re:Yes...want to stay with cake, but am I missing out?
2012/10/17 12:41:11
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Bristol_Jonesey
Marcus, I was explaining what I could run on my old system, not my new one
Yes I see that now. my apologies for any confusion.
http://www.marcuscurtismusic.com/ Windows 10 ultimate, Sonar Platinum, AMD Phenom 2 x6 1075T processor 3.00 GHz, (6 cores) 8 gigs of Ram, Audio interfaces=VS-100, Pod X3 live pro, Boss GT-100, Boss GP10 Midi Controllers=Edirol PCR 800, roland GR-55. Ozone 7, Podfarm, Th2 Full Version, Melda, True Pianos Full Version, and a whole bunch of free VST plugins which can be found through my site.
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