Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain

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caminitic
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2013/08/03 16:16:32 (permalink)

Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain

So...the same (funny thing) happens all the time I'm about ready to mix a lead vocal...and it can be summarized as follows:
 
On my EFX bin, I grab a dozen different compressors, 100 different reverbs, 200 different delay settings, warmers, limiters, subtractive EQing, etc., tweak tweak tweak, send to bus, try some other things, clone the track, try again...A/B the results...try blending them, parallel compression, etc., etc., to find a sound I'm happy with...and that takes about a week...and I still second guess myself the entire time...ha!
 
I was just wondering if y'all had your GO TO starting point with lead vocals.  I know it's VERY subjective, but I really wanna get a good template going so I can save time, headaches, and more importantly, achieve decent results.  My small home studio consists of a Miktek C7 going into my UA Solo 610.
 
What specific EFX can you NOT LIVE WITHOUT on your lead vox?  Thanks in advance!
 
Rizzo
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    benjaminfrog
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/03 16:32:50 (permalink)
    I try to use as few plugs as possible: a compressor and an EQ with a send to a reverb and a send to a delay. Usually the following:
     
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    jb101
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/03 16:47:36 (permalink)
    My standard chain tends to be PC76, Quad EQ, CA-2A, VX-64, Sat Knob, Breverb.

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    Jeff M.
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/03 17:18:38 (permalink)
    I pretty much do the same as Mr. Frog, but I often use:
     
    Waves Q10 for EQ (maybe a few instances of Q1 if needed) on the channel
    Waves C4 for multiband comp on the channel
    (sometimes replace eq & comp with DNR Mix Control Pro or the PC ones)
     
    Valhalla Room or VVV on a send (send level somewhere around -24 give or take)
    Fabfilter Timeless 2 on a either a send or a bus
     
    Then Waves CLA-3A on a the final Vox bus

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    The Maillard Reaction
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/03 17:24:05 (permalink)
    I call this the dream channel:
     
    Wave Arts Hum Removal
    Slate VCC
    IK T-Racks Custom Shop British Channel for Lo-Cut at 93.5Hz.
    Sonnox SuprEsser
    Melodyne
    Softtube CL-1B
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    Antress Modern Compressor
    UAD Pultec Passive EQ
    NuGen Visualizer
    Camel Crusher
     
    *output to vocal bus
     
    *send to Exponential Audio Phoenix Reverb bus
     
    *send to Kjaerhaus Chorus Classic bus
     
     


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    konradh
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/03 19:29:26 (permalink)
    Melodyne for pitch and timing correction, 1176 (PC76), Pro Channel EQ, send to a reverb bus.  (I usually have three reverb buses: drum, instrument, and vocal.)  I often double the lead (by singing it twice or sometimes by using a TC Helicon VoiceWorks Plus) and I pan the two leads at 40% L and 40% R (if they are both sung).
     
    I like Lexicon reverb and I prefer medium hall presets used sparingly.  I fell out of love with plate reverb on vocals a few years ago and I don't know why.
     
    If you use Melodyne, be sure to go to the Track Inspector and click POST so the ProChannel comes after the FX Bin; otherwise, the signal in Melodyne will not go through ProChannel and you will just be compressing and EQing the original copy of the vocal which you can't hear when Melodyne is running.
     
    Because of the singers I work with and the way I sing, the PC76 is usually set to the fastest attack, a release of about half a second (e.g., 510ms), a 4:1 or 8:1 ratio, and enough Output so that the volume does not change obviously when you turn the compressor off and on.  The input depends on the source signal, but my goal is to get the needle moving around between 0 and -4.  If it moves farther, things start to sound less natural (which may be what you want).  Sometimes I turn the Wet/Dry to 50% and sometimes I leave it on full.  Usually, the farther the needle is moving, the more dry signal I want so things don't sound weird.
     
    The EQ is usually to roll off low frequencies and sometimes to boost or cut around 2.5-3K Hz depending on whether the vocal is indistinct or harsh.  A HPF set at about 100hz will get rid of rumble, but it depends on the singer.  If you move the frequency too high, the singer will sound thin.
     
    I sometimes use EZMix 2 (like the Wide Vocals setting, or example), but I find the effects too obvious for the style of music I do.  They would probably be fine for Rock or Electronica.
     
    My advice: don't do too much to the vocal, although getting it on key and in time is essential.
    post edited by konradh - 2013/08/03 19:36:28

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    speedtom
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/04 14:41:51 (permalink)
    does anyone of you use Izotope Nectar? I am still wondering if I should buy it...

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    sethmopod
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/04 15:04:18 (permalink)
    My Go-To chain starts with the best mic I can find for that voice.  Given the people I usually record - TLM 102 for tenor; C-414 B-ULS for baritone <-- both reasonably priced used.  A friend/bandmate just got a Manley Cardioid Reference that I've used once and it looks like that may become the new standard, though.
     
    Next is compressor - depending on the voice, the Pro Channel 1176 or CA-2A, or Waves RComp.  I like that the prochannel modules have the mix control.  I use this a lot.  When I go with the RComp, I usually have to set up a parallel track to leave uncompressed.
     
    Next EQ - usually prefer Waves Req over the pro channel
     
    Multiband compressor if needed for taming or bringing out a certain part of the voice.
     
    Delay - I actually really like the Sonitus delay.  I'll set it very short - 15ms or so - for a thickening effect.  I always put it on the track rather than as a send
     
    Reverb send - generally a medium plate setting
     
    Seth
     
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    bitman
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/04 16:04:11 (permalink)
    LDC --> La2a --> DeEsser --> EQ.
     
    Verb and or echo to taste via sends.
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    konradh
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/04 16:06:28 (permalink)
    Seth (or anyone), I have mentioned a few times that I just cannot get happy with Plate on vocals anymore (although I used to use plate and oil cylinders all the time in the days of tape).  I don't know if my tastes have changed, or if it's the lame plug-ins I have.
     
    What brand of reverb do you use for your vocal plate?  I am not thrilled with Lexicon Pantheon for that. 
     
    I am seriously considering Lexicon's 224 plug-in (emulation): http://www.uaudio.com/store/reverbs/lexicon-224.html
     
    I think that sound is still valid.
     
    By the way, I have an old hardware ART reverb in the rack that I would gladly use on electronica or synth pop.  Its 80s digital algorithm sound is cool for some things, but it is way too grainy for the stuff I normally write.
     
    PS to Bitman.  I would love to have a real hardware LA2A if I could justify the cost!
     
     

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    sethmopod
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/04 16:20:16 (permalink)
    I could never make myself like the Lexicon Pantheon.  There was a period where I kept giving it chances, but eventually I just gave up.  Haven't even installed it the last couple of updates.
     
    I usually put an eq on the bus with a low cut and then use the plate setting on Waves TrueVerb and tinker with the decay time until I'm happy.  The way you set the eq going into the thing makes a big difference to my ears.
     
    Seth
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    konradh
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/04 16:24:16 (permalink)
    Thanks, Seth.

    Konrad
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    Jimbo21
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/04 16:35:03 (permalink)
    I use a Sm57 for more aggressive vocals and an Apex 360(?) tube mic for everything else into a Golden Age project Pre73. I use DMG EQuick for hpf and cuts followed by the CLA LA2A and then the Softube FET Comp, both with gentle gain reduction. For EQ boosts I may use the Maag EQ4. Sonitus delay or Supertap as a send and verb on a send as well (ValhallaRoom vs Tsar1 vs EOS vs Breverb. Sometimes I also have a slapback echo type delay as well.

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    peter434
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/04 19:45:03 (permalink)
    Voice - in particular if you have to deal with your own voice- can become an headache to get the exact sound we want to get. My first attempts with my Studio Project C1 mic directly plugged in my former digital recorder (a Roland Vs 2400) were not satisfying. Things have changed with another static mic and the addition of a good external preamp/comp and a TC Electronic M3000. Many argue in favor of  tube microphones which would be the best to translate perfectly the diverse vocal personalities... But all those things cost a lot !
     
    Concerning the effects in X2, the available reverbs can be useful but in a context of a whole mix, the "richness" factor is missing.  I think the reverb is an essential effect to sublimate a voice by giving thickness, depht and lushness while being discreet; but it has to be of high quality and I wonder if trade mark plug-ins like Exponential audio (Phoenix and R2), Relab LX 480 or Lexicon (pcm or below) could worth the invest ?
     
    Another factor I was not giving a particular attention, but which seems to be important for a good integration of the vocal in the mix , is the pitch correction process : My first use with V Vocal resulted with a serious crash, and in addition,for me, V Vocal is not very ergonomic. Melodyne seems to be more easy; Konrad : are you satisfied with Melodyne ?
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    sethmopod
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/04 21:48:40 (permalink)
    My best experience with time and pitch correction has been to make them do it again.  I can reach for Vvocal if there's a note here or there.  If it's any more than that, do everyone a favor and do another take or 10 or 20 or whatever it takes and comp them.
     
    Come to think of it.  The best vocal chain starts with a good singer.
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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 06:15:09 (permalink)
    Sonitus EQ for HPF/LPF
    PC76
    CA-2A
    Quad EQ for tonal shaping
     
    Sends to Delay/Reverb
     
    Delay = Sonitus
    Reverb = CSR Hall/Room/Plate (one of them, depending on the song)

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    musicroom
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 09:14:15 (permalink)
    It would be nice to easily share track templates for us to view. 
     
    Typical vocal chain: 
    akg 414 -> peavey vmp2 -> proch 1176 -> quad eq -> haas -> console emulation module -> vox gliss -> CA-2A
     
    sends (stage 1):
    Camel crusher
    Stillwell Oligarc Chorus
    room verb (sonitus)
    hall verb (Vallaha Rm or Breeverb)
    Stereo spread delay - (sonitus)
     
    Then I split buss sends L/R (from stage 1 to stage 2)
     
    sends (stage 2)
    Old timer - parallel compression 
    boot eq or thrillseeker
     
    Note: All sends are lightly used, if used at all. Striving more to hear the natural sound of the voice vs being able to hear the fx. I use Melodyne as needed to tune the raw vocal and then bounce to track.
     
     
     
     
     

     
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    #17
    musicroom
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 09:24:42 (permalink)
    konradh
    Seth (or anyone), I have mentioned a few times that I just cannot get happy with Plate on vocals anymore (although I used to use plate and oil cylinders all the time in the days of tape).  I don't know if my tastes have changed, or if it's the lame plug-ins I have.
     
    What brand of reverb do you use for your vocal plate?  I am not thrilled with Lexicon Pantheon for that. 
     
     



     
    I used Pantheon for a while after going from 32 bit to 64 bit and not being able to use the fxreverb from cake (which is a nice verb).
     
    I found Pantheon harsh for the most part. I could use it but... With the choices we have, I think breeverb is very good and my favorite is vallhalla room for just about any reverb need. It covers most everything. I still fall back to sonitus for room verbs simply because I have a couple of presets tweaked that work for my use, which is song writing then print a demo. I'm only dealing with me for the most part with an occasional guest. So not much changes. I load the saved preset, tweak a bit and keep moving.

     
    Dave
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    #18
    bitflipper
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 10:00:31 (permalink)
    For me, the only thing that goes on vocal tracks by default is a compressor. I'm a big fan of parallel compression on vocals, which I apply in-place using a compressor that has a mix knob rather than via a separate bus.


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    konradh
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 10:10:02 (permalink)
    To each his own, but if anyone cares, I do not agree with that comment about doing the vocal over 20x until it is right.
     
    I recut and punch in vocals all the time—no problem getting the best take you can;  but when the feel and phrasing are right, I don't believe in wearing out and discouraging the singer by redoing ad nauseum.
     
    A perfectly acceptable live take may need tweaks for a record that will be played thousands of times.
     
    AND—and this is a biggie—people's ears have changed.  When things are not in tune now, they notice it.  They may not know what's wrong, but they know it isn't right.
     
    A while back I mentioned a guy who told me I should not "micro-edit" vocals.  (None of his business, but whatever.)  He pointed to a song from the Woodstock era that he said didn't need technology.  I agree it was a great song by a great group, but when I listen to it now, the off-key harmonies really bug me.  Same for some Whitney Houston songs.  She was phenomenal and one of the greatest pop singers who ever lived; but I notice things in her records now that I didn't hear during her heyday.
     
     

    Konrad
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    jerrypettit
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 10:28:27 (permalink)
    Vocal Rider. Nectar.  Period.  (Usually).
    #21
    musicroom
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 10:39:58 (permalink)
    @Konrad 
     
    I agree. I would never want to redo a track twenty times - my love for the song and performance would slip away. 

     
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    #22
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 11:28:18 (permalink)
     
    I'll almost always use Waves SSL Channel (for the EQ and high/low pass filters).
    If I want soft/smooth dynamics control, I'll use a LA-2A style compressor.
    If I want a more aggressive "clamped down" type of sound, I'll use an 1176 style compressor.
     
    If the track needs intonation adjustment, I'll use Melodyne.
    If the track needs de-essed, I'll do that manually and only process the offending sibilant sections.
    If the track needs noise-reduction (not typically necessary), I'll do that via Samplitude or Audition.
     
    For reverb, I'll send to Pheonix Verb
    For delay, I'll send to my favorite delay of the month (haven't settled on THE delay)
     

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
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    #23
    Jim Roseberry
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 11:36:54 (permalink)
    musicroom
    @Konrad 
     
    I agree. I would never want to redo a track twenty times - my love for the song and performance would slip away. 




    I think there's a sweet-spot where the performer starts "locking in"... from a timing/energy (performance/tightness) perspective.
    If you go beyond that point (with 101 punch-ins), the performance starts to change/morph into something different.
    In my experience, the track starts going down-hill from that point (less energy, less focus).
     
    Singing is a very physical act.  A tired vocalist won't deliver their best performance.
    If the section hasn't been nailed in 4-8 passes, it's likely not going to happen on the 16th. 

    Best Regards,

    Jim Roseberry
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    #24
    konradh
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 13:26:45 (permalink)
    Recording myself is different, but recording other people, I find you can only hit the stop button or ask for a redo a certain number of times, and you have to feel where that point is.  There are some things you can say like, "That was great.  Now that you're warmed up, let's try another for fun," or "Let's keep that and do another for a back-up" or "Oops. Sorry, technical screw-up on my end—my apologies," or "Why don't we keep that one and, if you're up to it, maybe you can play around with a different feel and see if you like it," but at some point you have to let it go.
     
    And, by the way, if you hate Meldoyne or AutoTune or V-Vocal, that is totally cool.  Each artist has his/her own light.  I'm just throwing out my thoughts for whatever they may be worth.  All the things we use are just tools.

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    #25
    caminitic
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 15:34:13 (permalink)
    Wow...thanks for all the insight.  I'll definitely try to streamline my process instead of trying to solve the equivalent of a 100x100 Sudoku puzzle every time I start mixing lead vocals.  You guys are awesome for taking the time to respond with such detail.
     
    One more (unrelated) thing...I didn't want to create a new thread from "the guy always asking for help", but would any of you say that a per channel strip effect (i.e. VCC, Waves stuff, Izotope) is a GOOD THING to use?  I know, again, it's subjective...but I've read a lot of nice things about some of those and wonder if it'd make a difference when summing all those little details into a final mix buss, etc.  I'm still trying to learn the "when something doesn't always mean better" philosophy of mixing...
     
    Again...I'm not making professional mixes...just trying to make professional-sounding DEMOS for the purpose of somebody in Nashville wanting to cut the song.
     
    Thanks again.
    #26
    cryophonik
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 17:07:44 (permalink)
    konradh
    To each his own, but if anyone cares, I do not agree with that comment about doing the vocal over 20x until it is right.
     
    I recut and punch in vocals all the time—no problem getting the best take you can;  but when the feel and phrasing are right, I don't believe in wearing out and discouraging the singer by redoing ad nauseum.
     



    Yup, totally agree with this.  It's no fun to work with a disgruntled vocalist.  Although, I have found that most vocalists I work with are more concerned with getting the pitch right than I am, and less concerned with getting the phrasing right then I am.
     
    I start with a Shure SM7B, GT66, or AKG 414 XLS > Focusrite ISA Two or SSL Xlogic Alpha Channel w either Drawmer DL241 or RNC on the insert for gentle compression and/or expansion.
     
    Melodyne as necessary to fix intonation/timing
     
    My typical vocal tracks' FX chains looks something like:
    - FabFilter Pro Q (for hi/lo-pass only)
    - FabFilter Pro G (if necessary)
    - Sonnox Suppressor
    - FabFilter Pro C
    - FabFilter Pro Q (for surgical EQ)
     
    Send to reverb (usually 2C Aether or Valhalla Room) and delay (usually SoundToys EchoBoy) buses.
     
    Route all main vocals to a Vocals buss where I usually use either the Waves SSL channel strip or RenChannel.

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    #27
    konradh
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/05 22:36:37 (permalink)
    Ha! cyrophonik, that was right on about the tuning and phrasing!

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    #28
    sethmopod
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/06 00:07:54 (permalink)
    I think part of my thing on the 20 times bit comes from being classically trained.  I know there's a thing among a lot of pop/rockers (which I am at heart, despite two classical music degrees) that the first take is usually the best take.  While I have had that happen to people I've recorded, it has been extremely rare.  I find that I get much better results from musicians when I actively coach them through their takes.  This is true for singers and instrumentalists, and I've worked with some really good ones. 
     
    It helps in this that I am a sought after and successful teacher in my area; I'm used to improving performances without smashing egos.  I've studied with some of the best teachers out there (Larry Hurst recently retired from Indiana University - if I can grow to be half the teacher he was, I will count myself as a crazy success), and one of the great lessons I've learned is that energy in music can and must be planned.  Any less is the sign of a hack. (<-- this is a harsh statement and probably overdone in the spirit of an internet rant)
     
    A very common process I find when working with singers is that we take a couple of full passes at the song to get warmed up.  I may make a few general comments at this point, but usually nothing too much.  Then we starting going through the song phrase by phrase examining the articulation and dynamic structure of each one in much greater detail.  I find that most singers have not done this - they're used to giving run-throughs.  Any good music teacher can demonstrate readily that this is ineffective practice and misses a lot of the detail that leads to a great performance - in any style.
     
    By the time we work through the song to the end, I usually find that the singer has found a new groove that manipulates the elements of musicality a lot more effectively.  They are usually singing in a slightly different style by the end of the song than they were from the beginning.  At this point, we will usually go back and redo earlier verses and choruses to match the final style.  What results has been, in my experience, always superior to what those first couple of takes were.  With a reasonably good singer this whole process takes about an hour or so.  Bear in mind, this is not an hour of constant singing - voices can't stand up to that.  It includes discussion, analysis and some rehearsal.  There are also a lot of takes built up.  The editing usually isn't bad, though, because the keeper is almost always immediately apparent - they hit that interval that was giving them trouble, they lock in with the groove, the articulations and accents are there to give it energy, etc.
     
    I've had it happen where no matter what I've tried it just hasn't clicked.  I had a session recently where I had to send the singer home to practice.  He took it well, though, because I was helping him understand why his takes weren't getting what he wanted.  He came back a couple of weeks later and nailed it.
     
    A caveat here on the "do it again until it's right" comment that started all of this.  Just doing it over and over without the coaching to improve it each time is a waste of time and will leave everyone frustrated and defeated.
     
    I'm not usually given to internet rants like this, but I guess I needed to get it out.  I'll shut up now.
     
    Seth
    #29
    Guitarhacker
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    Re: Your "GO-TO" lead vocal EFX chain 2013/08/06 08:14:01 (permalink)
    I normally leave the track bin empty and set up a vocal bus where I use a custom preset of Ozone and Cakewalk Studioverb2. In the track I use melodyne to process corrections and then after it's bounced/applied I remove the ME plugin.
     
    My processing on vocals, and most other things is pretty simply and straight forward..... Ozone and reverb.....
     
    Ozone is, of course, a very versatile tool. EQ, Compression, limiting, all in one and the ability to use only what you need and want while turning off the modules you don't want.

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