Your thoughts on GPO? [Answered]

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bitflipper
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/10 01:49:23 (permalink)
Thanks, Mike. That's the plan - make some music. Cheaper than psychotherapy (but not by much).


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Bajan Blue
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/10 09:14:44 (permalink)
Hi Dave
Really sorry to hear of your loss - lost my Sister and Dad over 25 years ago but my mum only a recently - I thought it may get easier, but it doesn't seem to - being busy on one thing or another, especially music, always helped me. Hope all goes well, you are in my thoughts
Nigel

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#32
Fleer
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/10 23:11:42 (permalink)
Bit and Bajan, such losses are hard to cope with. Good thing there's music. Always.
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jimusic
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/11 01:23:53 (permalink)
Music is excellent therapy for such losses & other tough times, but I'm sure you know that already.
 
For anyone's curiosity I'll chime in with 2 things about GPO.
 
1. I got GPO many years ago in a deal thru Cakewalk here for $99.00. The Key Card license system is just a .png image that you just drag & drop onto the GUI and it's good to go from there on.
 
I don't imagine that's changed since then, as it's all too easy. I wish all were like that.
 
2. The one thing that I [and some others according to their forums] didn't like, was that there was no way to control the amount of vibrato on the solo violins. It's always on. Same amount, same intensity.
 
IIRC, I believe there is a short delay before it kicks in to emulate what most players would do, however in reality, not every player would employ vibrato each and every single time on every passage they play. On rare occasion, they wouldn't.
But this option is not provided.
Even Gary Garritan chimed in on the forum after numerous requests and said that it would be way to hard to implement an update to offer this as an option, so it won't ever be done - not without re-recording the samples - which of course would be way to expensive to do - like basically starting all over. He said that when recording the players, that's how they played it and no one thought to ask for straight none-vibrato samples at the time, so none were recorded.
 
For this reason, I only use it for things other than strings, ie; the piano is actually quite good, as are the flutes, etc.
 
I switched to Kirk Hunter's Concert Strings 2 and the newest Solo Strings. I got them during one of his 2 sales this year - both at 50% off.
I've since picked up Concert Brass as well.
 
@ Bit: If you're still looking, check out Kirk Hunter's stuff - it's actually a pretty good deal - when on sale.
 
[Concert Strings 2 & Concert Brass work in Kontakt 4 while Solo Strings requires K5.]
 
 
 



 
 
#34
bitflipper
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/11 11:25:11 (permalink)
Thanks, jimusic. I like that authorization scheme; it's clever, simple and reliable.
 
There are pros and cons to the way GPO did vibrato. It sounds like the vibrato is real, baked into the samples. If that's the case, then the pro is that the vibrato is real and sounds real. The con, of course, is that it's not possible to alter the vibrato from whatever was originally recorded.
 
That would kinda be a showstopper for me, because vibrato is so crucial to convincing strings. Each player's going to apply a slightly different delay, amount, and rate, which fattens the sound of an ensemble. One of the problems I'm having with ST3 is controlling vibrato, which seems to jump from barely discernible to over-the-top air raid siren.
 
During my search, the Kirk Hunter stuff kept rising to the top of the pile. Unfortunately, Concert Strings or Pop/Rock Strings would require a Kontakt upgrade for me (another hundred bucks).
 
So I'm just going to have to make the best of ST3's strings. Funny, I just listened to some stuff I'd previously done with ST2 and Miroslav, and it sounds a lot better than ST3. If I can figure out why that is, I may be on my way to stringy Nirvana with ST3 yet.


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#35
jimusic
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/11 13:14:39 (permalink)
Hey Bit, I thought you had Kontakt 4.
 
I wasn't even gonna upgrade to K5 - but - last December NI had the upgrade to K5 on for $49.
 
Perhaps you can watch for another upgrade deal for what ever version you have. Chances are they'll do that again in December.



 
 
#36
bitflipper
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/11 14:27:55 (permalink)
I skipped the K5 upgrade even when it was $49 because the update brought almost nothing new to the game - not even any new factory content - and my favorite library developers were/are still K4-compatible.
 
But I always knew that someday some killer library would come along to force an upgrade. I just hoped K6 would happen first and that they'd throw in Giant or something to sweeten the deal. So far, neither has happened.
 
Plan B: live like a pauper for the next year and then go for the full VSL or LA Scoring Strings package. The first part of that plan is already in motion.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#37
jimusic
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/11 16:10:11 (permalink)
bitflipper
I skipped the K5 upgrade even when it was $49...
...Plan B: live like a pauper for the next year and then go for the full VSL or LA Scoring Strings package. The first part of that plan is already in motion...

Living like a pauper - Haha - I think most of us are doing that or at least have done it.  And you're lookin' at a guy who bought not one but 2 school busses, gutted them out made them into motorhomes and lived in them for a total of 10 years straight. And I built the first one while I was technically unemployed. I was quite amazed at how many people contributed spare parts and other building supplies to the project.
 
So I can sure relate to livin' like a pauper there Bit.
 
Back on topic: If you do have K4, Kirk Hunter's Concert Strings II works in K4. I just fired it up about an hour ago. Just FYI. 
 
That is of course unless he's changed or updated it to require K5.
 
Just checked - 50% off most products until Dec. 15.
 
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/
 
Looks like Pop/Rock Strings works in K4 too.
http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/req.html
 
 



 
 
#38
bitflipper
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/11 20:23:17 (permalink)
You're right, it does still say K4 (K5 "recommended"). 
 
I've just been listening to the concert strings demos again...crap, they sound bloody awesome. They make ST3 sound like a 1970's Casio rompler. Now, just between you and me...how hard is it to make them sound that good, really?
 


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#39
jimusic
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/11 22:09:52 (permalink)
Real easy - no Eq, no compression - just straight out of the box is good for me - at least to start with. I like to try to leave everything sounding as natural as possible, and don't mess with it until mix time forces me to do just a bit here & there.
 
But 50% off is awfully tempting, isn't it?



 
 
#40
jimusic
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/11 22:12:05 (permalink)
I also have Solo Spot Light Strings, but have yet to use it. [K5 for that one.]
 
Concert Strings 2 includes 'Solo Strings 2' already.
 



 
 
#41
jimusic
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/11 22:28:24 (permalink)
Just looking at the requirements list and it's kind of confusing.
 
I'd want to contact Kirk just to be sure. There's still 4 days left for the sale to do so.



 
 
#42
Chandler
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/12 01:47:08 (permalink)
Kirk said he's coming out with a new library by the end of the year. You might want to wait for that before you decide. It has fully controllable vibrato. You can control the speed and depth in real time, just like Spotlight solo strings, but this is ensemble and solo instruments. It sounds better than his older libraries too, but I haven't heard much of it yet. I hope he posts more clips soon.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p41B18WkyHs
 
You can hear how it sounds there. The feature set is amazing and the sound very good IMO, but I'd like to hear the other instruments and the solos too. Looks like I'll be dropping some more money soon.

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#43
jimusic
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/12 10:46:27 (permalink)
Chandler
Kirk said he's coming out with a new library by the end of the year. You might want to wait for that before you decide. It has fully controllable vibrato. You can control the speed and depth in real time...

A few things to note:
 
1. The thing to ask him though, is will this new library be for K4 or K5?
 
Because of K5's new scripting abilities, many are now writing for that version, instead of K4.
 
Kirk did this for Spot Light Strings.
 
Bit doesn't have K5.
 
2. Concert Strings 2 has controllable vibrato as well, which is why I went for it over GPO.
 
3. Kirk offers upgrade paths which I believe are just the price differences, so one could get CS 2 if it still works in K4, and always upgrade later. That way, the sale price can be had for now, and in case the new library is only for K5, then Concert Strings 2 was the safe purchase to go with right now while on sale.
 
 



 
 
#44
bitflipper
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/12 11:20:43 (permalink)
I saw that announcement, too, but so far there has been no further information from the vendor regarding Kontakt compatibility or upgrade pricing. All the more reason for me to jump on CS2 now. If it turns out I can use CS3, I'm sure there'll be an upgrade offer. And if I can't use CS3 without also upgrading Kontakt, I'll still have a version that I can use (that may no longer be available after CS3). 
 
At this point, I'm inclined to call it my Christmas present and go for CS2. The main thing that makes me hesitate is that I see no option for buying it on DVDs rather than downloading. After my last download fiasco with ST3, I'm determined to not obtain any more 30GB libraries via DSL. They do offer to ship it on a hard drive, but that seems excessive. A USB stick would be nice, though.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#45
bitflipper
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/12 11:40:21 (permalink)
Some more information about SC3 here: http://www.kirkhunterstudios.com/cs3.html
 
Some cool new features:
  • Mic distance from 5 to 38 feet
  • Loosen each player's entrance
  • Run and fill sequencer
  • Full vibrato control
  • Individual volume and panning for each instrument in an ensemble
  • New articulations (e.g. Dolce Largo, I don't know what it is but I'm going to look it up)
Still no firm release date or pricing information, though.
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#46
jimusic
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/12 13:44:07 (permalink)
bitflipper
...All the more reason for me to jump on CS2 now. If it turns out I can use CS3, I'm sure there'll be an upgrade offer. And if I can't use CS3 without also upgrading Kontakt, I'll still have a version that I can use (that may no longer be available after CS3)...
 

Exactly.
But he does seem to offer upgrades, and looking at the new features below, I may go for it as well when the times comes.
bitflipper
At this point, I'm inclined to call it my Christmas present and go for CS2. The main thing that makes me hesitate is that I see no option for buying it on DVDs rather than downloading. After my last download fiasco with ST3, I'm determined to not obtain any more 30GB libraries via DSL. They do offer to ship it on a hard drive, but that seems excessive. A USB stick would be nice, though.


I didn't have any problems with the download. Some burn them to DVDs to have a physical copy, but I just have an external USB 3.0 Hard Drive that I store all my VSTs on as master copies.  I paid $99 for it for 1TB.



 
 
#47
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/12 19:38:13 (permalink)
bitflipper
I skipped the K5 upgrade even when it was $49 because the update brought almost nothing new to the game - not even any new factory content - and my favorite library developers were/are still K4-compatible.

I think that the enhanced scripts, the new filters, and Retro Machines is well worth $49
#48
bitflipper
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/12 23:06:07 (permalink)
Lots of folks think so. I don't.
 
I can't name one commercial library that makes use of the new scripting features. The main reason new libraries are K5-only is that they are latecomers, and NI makes it impossible to create a K4-compatible library unless you already own K4, which they won't sell to you.


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#49
Fleer
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/12 23:29:19 (permalink)
I wonder if EastWest Hollywood isn't a possible competitor here, now you can combine BOGOF and an additional $100 discount ?
#50
bitflipper
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/13 08:38:31 (permalink)
Would be a contender, but I don't do dongles. EastWest stuff is still iLok, isn't it?


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Fleer
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/13 08:42:54 (permalink)
I'm afraid so, Bit.
I got one free with a controller so I tried it out. Also went for some Slate stuff. Guess I even prefer iLok above Waves' WUP, although quite different things, of course.
And I'm hoping more companies will end their dongle love, or at least go for an internet version, as some do. Even SoundToys will soon.
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bitflipper
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/13 09:02:33 (permalink)
Fleer
...I even prefer iLok above Waves' WUP...



I prefer deep-fried eggplant, athlete's foot and Justin Bieber's hair to Waves' WUP.
 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#53
Fleer
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/13 09:03:26 (permalink)
Damn right :)
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/14 10:31:21 (permalink)
bitflipper
Fleer
...I even prefer iLok above Waves' WUP...



I prefer deep-fried eggplant, athlete's foot and Justin Bieber's hair to Waves' WUP.
 




Justin Beiber's hair?   Geez...  
 
FWIW, my reason for Kontakt 5 was simple - library compatibility.
 

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Bajan Blue
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/14 11:26:57 (permalink)
I wont wup for any weeson - thats why waves wost all my business
 
 
 
 

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bitflipper
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/14 15:08:29 (permalink)
Well, I got frustrated with ST3's violas sounding like honking geese no matter how I EQ'd them, and went ahead and bought Concert Strings 2 from Kirk Hunter. The download is underway. I'll let you know how it works out, when the download finishes sometime next Wednesday. Gotta love the instant gratification of an internet purchase.


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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#57
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/14 21:33:46 (permalink)
What about Concert Strings 3, Bit, any news?
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/15 03:14:08 (permalink)
"sounding like honking geese"
 
Odd, but I know exactly what you mean.

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bitflipper
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Re: Your thoughts on GPO? 2014/12/15 10:07:50 (permalink)
Apparently, CS3 will be released in pieces, starting with violins, probably next month. A good place to start, as it's always the violins that are the best indicator of a string library's quality, especially the solo instruments.
 
The new vibrato control should be frickin' awesome for solo violin. Reading through the change logs for past TVEC versions (TVEC = Total Virtuoso Expression Control, what they call their scripting package), a major focus of every revision has been to improve vibrato control. It's the holy grail of realistic-sounding sampled strings.
 
Longtime KH users assure me there's always been an upgrade/intro offer on new products.
 
Day 2 of the download. It's been running for 20 hours now and I have 8 of the 34 files. Wednesday was apparently an overly-optimistic ETA. 


All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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