bits2tubes
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Yucky Knobs
Can you please replace the tinker toy knobs your using for the new one knob does it all actions!? Please make them look like something that belongs with the rest of the software. A simple black on silver or something. Your making a pro software look like a video game. Yuck! And you're from Boston?
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ashtangakasha
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/20 00:22:25
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Agreed. See my prior post: msg 3337298 Allen
post edited by ashtangakasha - 2015/12/20 00:34:49
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bits2tubes
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/20 19:40:28
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I've refused to use them. If I can't get it done with the regular tools Sonar offers...I won't do it.
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letyourlightshine
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/20 20:57:47
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I agree,shouldn't have made them for sonar,cheapens it.Whether its fair or not,this is the kind of thing that makes other DAW users think sonar cannot for lack of a better phrase "run with the big boys/girls".Now obviously we know that is crap.Sonar could and should be in the top 5 DAWs. I was annoyed that instead of releasing more pro channel modules(there have to be analogue gear left to model/are overloud,boz digital labs,and softtube that would want to make pro channel plugins of certain software right? Instead if doing that they made those knobs,that in my opinion sound terrible,or better put not useful,and they look like silly toys.But I have had many sonar users(on Facebook)tell me they liked them or I was wrong for wanting more pro channel mid. from cakewalk/3rd parties because there are "fx chains" and they seem to think cakewalk has released plenty.......I don't get it.
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bits2tubes
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/20 21:09:49
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Maybe what we need is one BIG KNOB labled "Make my music Perfect". Color it yellow for chicken S..t!
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letyourlightshine
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/20 21:54:40
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sharke
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/20 22:43:38
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I think they're appealing to the newbie market with those knobs. Personally I haven't found a use for them yet, and as far as I know they're just bog standard Sonnitus effects under the hood (although I may be wrong). It seems like a cheap and easy way to advertise a "new feature" although I have heard some people say they've been using them successfully. Personally though, I'd rather see Cakewalk code these Style Dials entirely from scratch with new algorithms. There's clearly some DSP talent there (think CA-2A) and I think they could get away with selling them as modules if they were good enough.
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azslow3
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/21 06:11:57
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Since ProChannel in current implementation is a garbage collector, it is the right place to put some garbage Explanation. In attempt to create something "new" and somehow keep old Filters functionality inside, CW has managed to introduce yet another FX Bin with proprietary programming interface and fixed size small GUIs which: a) put chaos in FX construction logic (from audio processing point it is still just second FX bin) b) has not logical limitations in the content (coming from Filters) c) has not logical limitations in the interface d) is not control surfaces friendly
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stevec
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/21 17:08:43
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I completely disagree - I use PC a good 90% of the time over FX Bins. And I find them anything but illogical. This topic was discussed a lot early in the X series, and it seems that most either like and use them or will never like or use them. I'm in the former group. Although, I haven't used any SDs yet...
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Soundwise
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/21 17:17:46
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Speed Dials are put in a separate group. If you don't like it - just don't click there and you won't see any SD at all. I honestly don't know what's not to like about SDs. They are easy to use, do the job and look great. Well, there are better tools just as there are better composers, engineers and producers. So what?
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letyourlightshine
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/22 01:10:54
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If pro channel is nothing special,then why make it at all,and then sell expensive modules?It's obvious it's not a priority to have a lot of 3rd parry plugins as pro channel modules,or too make new high quality emulations for pro channel..evidenced by the style dials. I have had people tell me there is nothing special,algorithmically or sonically about pro channel.I can't confirm or deny,I don't want to believe that for sure.I don't know. If that were true then I would be pissed I will now calm it down a tad........... I thought sonar was to be a professional recording program ,although maybe that is not how they wan to market it. Isn't though that what music creator is?A easy version for people who do not want to get in depth with music production? Yes it is,so why make sonar kind of like that,it makes no sense,I'm sorry,like them if you want thats fine I'm not judging you,I just don't get it.
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azslow3
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/22 04:42:42
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letyourlightshine I thought sonar was to be a professional recording program ,although maybe that is not how they wan to market it. Isn't though that what music creator is?A easy version for people who do not want to get in depth with music production?
I guess these knobs was thought primary for Creator, compare pictures from http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/Music-Creator with http://www.cakewalk.com/Products/SONAR But since both programs have the same code base, they have made the feature available in both. I find "Sonar is Creator plus many professional features" more logical then "Sonar is Creator minus some features". stevec I completely disagree - I use PC a good 90% of the time over FX Bins. And I find them anything but illogical. This topic was discussed a lot early in the X series, and it seems that most either like and use them or will never like or use them. I'm in the former group. Although, I haven't used any SDs yet...
a) one and only one EQ (the only reason is former Filter interface support) b) strangeness with Compressor (again Filter interface) c) normal FX can not be places directly there. I know the GUI will not fit into strip, but why not use "fly out"? d) why PC modules can not be used as "normal" VST FXes? They could have EXACTLY the same (small) GUI as in strip in case bigger make no sense, just draw it with VST standard API (instead of crashing, what most PC modules do now...). If I understand it correctly, Music Creator has no Pro Channel. And they manage to draw the same knobs. I do not understand why someone can find all that "logical". I am not against PC, the idea is great. I just want CW implement it properly, make API open standard (that is just several lines of code) and so harvest more PC modules developers. Also merging FX bin and ProChannel (so ProChannel is an advanced FX bin) will also extent the group of people which like it to the whole community.
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Leadfoot
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/22 04:55:50
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azslow3 I am not against PC, the idea is great. I just want CW implement it properly, make API open standard (that is just several lines of code) and so harvest more PC modules developers. Also merging FX bin and ProChannel (so ProChannel is an advanced FX bin) will also extent the group of people which like it to the whole community.
I think you should post this in the Features & Ideas forum. It's a great idea!
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azslow3
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/22 06:52:09
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Leadfoot
azslow3 I am not against PC, the idea is great. I just want CW implement it properly, make API open standard (that is just several lines of code) and so harvest more PC modules developers. Also merging FX bin and ProChannel (so ProChannel is an advanced FX bin) will also extent the group of people which like it to the whole community.
I think you should post this in the Features & Ideas forum. It's a great idea!
I have posted that long time ago: http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3123977
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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letyourlightshine
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/22 08:51:41
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Ok,clarification,I can see why novice users would like them.Its the seasoned sonar users that like them that confuse me. But TO EACH THEIR OWN,IM NOT TRYING TO BE A JERK,HARD TO EXPLAIN THINGS PROPERLY FOR ME WITHOUT PERSONAL COMMUNICATION. So please,please do not take my comment as me saying those who like them are dumb or somthing(I AM NOT SAYING THAT) Its just an opinion and you know what they say about opinions,they are like [link=mailto:a@@@@@@@]a@@@@@@@[/link] ,everyone has one. Have fun,make some music!
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letyourlightshine
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/22 09:15:19
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Not sure why I got -1.I made clear I wasn't judging those who don't agree with me,Its just my opinion.
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stevec
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/22 10:00:28
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azslow3 c) normal FX can not be places directly there. I know the GUI will not fit into strip, but why not use "fly out"?
? FX Chains have been PC-compatible since X2 and allow one to add normal VSTs anywhere in the PC chain, in a single scroll-able UI where everything is visible. That said, I "get" why some may not like the PC concept as it currently exists, I'm just not in that camp. It's not really a right or wrong scenario but rather a completely subjective preference.
post edited by stevec - 2015/12/22 11:20:40
SteveC https://soundcloud.com/steve-cocchi http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=39163 SONAR Platinum x64, Intel Q9300 (2.5Ghz), Asus P5N-D, Win7 x64 SP1, 8GB RAM, 1TB internal + ESATA + USB Backup HDDs, ATI Radeon HD5450 1GB RAM + dual ViewSonic VA2431wm Monitors; Focusrite 18i6 (ASIO); Komplete 9, Melodyne Studio 4, Ozone 7 Advanced, Rapture Pro, GPO5, Valhalla Plate, MJUC comp, MDynamic EQ, lots of other freebie VST plugins, synths and Kontakt libraries
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brconflict
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/22 10:49:39
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I only used the PC before because the FX bin could only display 3-4 plug-ins. I pretty much never used the included plug-ins, not that they were bad at all, but when you own the venerable Waves plugs, you tend to be a little biased to use their modeling expertise. With that said, Waves thought it would be divine to create the One-Knob series plug-in themselves. Cakewalk is following that logic, and I'm betting it's better for those who are unsure how to get great sounding tracks quickly without fiddling with multiple plug-ins, or the seasoned mixers who just want to quickly try things. Leave the technical out and create. I don't mind that. I do agree they are a bit cartoony, but not nearly as bad as X2's waveform color schemes. They certainly could look worse. When you place these side-by-side with the Waves offerings, you can see the comparable logic in look/feel. Craig was careful to not introduce these in the e-Mag as a Cakewalk invention. Nevertheless, he did a fabulous job of explaining how they can be useful. I also agree with any implications that it would be nice to have them outside Sonar or the PC. I don't use the ProChannel, not because I don't like it, but because you have to un-hide it. Any new FX that Cakewalk introduces there collect dust on my desk, unfortunately.
post edited by brconflict - 2015/12/22 11:03:21
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bits2tubes
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/25 14:54:00
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Soundwise Speed Dials are put in a separate group. If you don't like it - just don't click there and you won't see any SD at all. I honestly don't know what's not to like about SDs. They are easy to use, do the job and look great. Well, there are better tools just as there are better composers, engineers and producers. So what?
Of couse you would like to see more pepole say they like them. I think Ford would like to see more pepole like the Fuson. My point is you wasting space, making the program look childess and making me feel stupid for selecting a porgram that has good features, then dumping kidding robot knobs right on top. Why do they have to look the way they do? That's what I'm asking. Can't they look like any other knob used in Sonar? Would it hurt? Would Sonar not run right if the knobs looked different?
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Beepster
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/25 15:29:52
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Uhh... the Style Dials were/are something for the Sonar "Artist" version users to have and use in the PC whereas before they had no PC at ALL. I think that was a very nice gesture of Cake to make their base version a little cooler/more useable for Artist users while at the same time letting them into the Prochannel workflow without giving away the farm. This wasn't about us spoiled rotten Platinum and Studio users. We just got them because the screeching would be horrendous if the base package users got them and we didn't. Also the original intent of the Style Dials way back in the day were as "placeholder" effects that could be inserted during tracking or project building or whatever to do various things one would normally do with more complex effects in the final mix. Apparently they were popular and got revived and now we have newer effects based on the same premise. They did not remove anything. You don't need to use them. I will likely try them, maybe... but I don't expect them to replace what I'd normally use (and AFAIK they actually use various plugins in the Sonar package like the FX Chains do). What's the problem? As far as how things "look"? Who gives a fart? No one is going to "hear" how they look. Yeesh.
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mixmkr
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/25 16:04:12
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I've been recording for 40 years, and I think the style dials are nice. for something really quick to make rough mixes or hear what that type of effect might sound like in a mix...without all the setting up of stuff. Seems no one complained when Waves L1 first came out. In fact I think it was the opposite. Any rate...try the space dial on a stereo drum mix. I haven't heard something that good, quick and easy...for free.
post edited by mixmkr - 2015/12/25 16:16:27
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bits2tubes
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/25 21:41:27
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"As far as how things "look"? Who gives a fart?" Those of us that feel it could have been done better. Us. We're the ones giving a fart!
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mixmkr
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/25 22:40:11
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Ya know...totally subjective....but wonder how these would be perceived if they had a GUI like Boz Digital Lab stuff...or even the Panu Sonar screen mods. A nice, 3D looking slider on some sexy black metal plating...
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azslow3
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2015/12/26 06:18:27
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☄ Helpfulby dcumpian 2016/01/14 08:44:35
Yes... why Sonar is not using 3D mode, rendering knobs in real time taking current light conditions in the room captured by the WebCam into account? May be because colling 400W gaming graphic card in recording room is hard to achieve without noise and all that is completely irrelevant for produced sound?
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
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jih64
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2016/01/01 02:24:31
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mixmkr Ya know...totally subjective....but wonder how these would be perceived if they had a GUI like Boz Digital Lab stuff...or even the Panu Sonar screen mods. A nice, 3D looking slider on some sexy black metal plating...
I think they would be perceived, received a lot better presented like you say. As it is now they look like something from the 'Sonar Platinum Teletubbies Edition'. They just don't fit, they are way out of place. I had ever only seen pic's of them up until now and that was bad enough, they look much worse first hand. It's all well and good to say that looks are not the most important thing, or shouldn't be, and that's right, but lets face it it does matter. A lot of people say that Reaper looks bad, so take that for example or perhaps something that looks even worse, the worst look for a DAW you can imagine, now slip into that alternate reality where Sonar actually does look like that, I think those that push the looks don't matter line would soon change their tune
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rebel007
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Re: Yucky Knobs
2016/01/14 07:11:13
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I totally get why someone would want to use a one button effect. Once you get used to the sound they create, it's a very, very quick way to get a sound you're after. To create a scratch track for a yourself, client, a producer or even a mastering engineer, you don't have to fiddle with dozens of knobs and buttons to get the sound you want. It's right there, one step, and very easy to dial in (Much like a preset on any other effect). There are going to be users that will say they never use presets and create every sound in their FX from scratch. That's ok too, but there is always going to times when you just want to dial in a quick and easy effect. As to the look of the knobs themselves, I find the graphic on the knob, and the name of each, easy to read and understand. I don't think it detracts at all from the sense that Sonar is a quality DAW. I too have wondered why Cakewalk would want to put in what essentially amounts to a second, propriety FX bin. I do however find myself using it in preference to the standard FX bin, as the graphics and ease of use make it so much simpler to use than just about any other DAW's implementation of an FX bin.
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