Z3ta+ install problems

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rrobbone
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2008/08/27 16:05:52 (permalink)

Z3ta+ install problems

I just purchased a copy of Z3ta+ for PC-Win XP to run in Sony Acid Pro 6.0d as a Vst plug in instrument. However, when I try to use Z3ta+ as a VSTi soft synth, it is not included in my vst instruments list within Acid.

Z3ta+ is in my VST plug ins > Program files folder along with every other VST instrument I have. They all are working fine, so unless Z3ta+ requires special setup, it should be working.

However, I noticed that it is populated in my Vst effects folder within Acid. As a result, I can only access Z3ta+ as a Vst effect, not a soft synth.

I tried un- and reinstalling numerous times, in different folder combos to try to get Acid to pick it up correctly, and pointing Acid directly to the folder where the synth is stored, all with the same result.

I initially downloaded the Z3ta+ demo and had no problems with it at all. When I uninstalled the demo and installed the box copy, the problems started.

I have tried:

Refreshing VSTi list in preferences dialog box
Refreshing VST effects in preferences dialog box
Uninstalling and reinstalling
Downloded the update and installed that (after uninstalling box copy, per update instructions)
Re-routing directory path in many combos, both in windows and within Acid.
Rene's directory fix located in these forums.
Reinstalled the demo (since it was working properly) and it is now only working as a VST effect, not as a VST instrument.

Box copy = no worky.
Demo = no worky.

All other VST instruments and effects (freeware and purchased, including the Rapture demo) are working as they should, this seems to be isolated only to Z3ta+.

I can't understand why neither the box copy or demo will now show up populated in my VST instruments. I am totally at a loss.

Please, if you have any suggestions, send them my way.

I fell in love with the demo and I really want to start playing with my new toy.

Thanks in advance,

rrobbone

I killed a six pack once.... just to watch it die.
#1

19 Replies Related Threads

    Crg
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/27 16:46:14 (permalink)
    Hi rrobbone, I'll assume the Acid Pro will accept Z3TA+ as a Synth or an Effect. When you downloaded Z3TA+ what version was it? 1.5.3? The boxed version I ordered was version 1.4.1. I ordered it thinking I would a disc of 1.5.3, the latest version. In order to get to version 1.5.3 you have to uninstall all previous versions and use the downloaded 1.5.3 version, yes the 1.4.1 disk you ordered must be deleted in Sonar to avoid dll' confusion. Might be the same in Acid Pro.
    Also, go into the synth properties and check both boxs- enable as an effect and enable as a synth. Assuming Acid Pro has that feature. Let me know if that works, I'm still experimenting with settings in Sonar 7 and Z3TA+.

    I killed a six pack once.... just to watch it die. Love it Bro!
    post edited by Crg - 2008/08/27 17:07:05

    Craig DuBuc
    #2
    rrobbone
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/27 18:40:10 (permalink)
    Hey Crg, thanks for the quick reply.

    Yes, Acid will run Z3ta+, I was playing with the demo all week. I assume that the demo was based off of build 1.5.3, since I downloaded it this week. Acid is a very good VST host, in my experience.

    Acid was recognizing that demo it as a soft synth, the way it should be. All was well with the world.

    The box copy I received is indeed vers. 1.4.1.

    I downloaded the update and followed the directions to wipe all other traces of Z3ta+ and followed through with the new install for vers. 1.5.3.

    Acid is still recognizing the full version 1.5.3 as a VST effect, not an instrument, same as it was for the full version 1.4.1.

    In the soft synth preferences (properties) box, Acid allows the user to check and uncheck the VST plug ins as needed so that Acid will know which to find and which to ignore.

    Problem is: Z3ta+ is not present in the VST instruments list at all.

    Z3ta+ is populated in the VST effects dialog box to check and uncheck. I can access Z3ta+ through my effects busses and send other signals through it (which is useful), but this does not allow me to use it as a tone/noise/sound generator which is how I want to use it, of course.

    I've been round and round that VSTi dialog box to determine why Z3ta+ is not showing up in it.

    It's got to be a folder directory path issue. I can't imagine what else could be causing the snafu.

    Thanks again,

    rrobbone

    I killed a six pack once.... just to watch it die.
    #3
    Fog
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/27 19:08:22 (permalink)
    I have the boxed version and the one that comes with sonar.. both worked in cubase (another host) without issue. Not sure about the host you use, when it installed did it ask where to place the VST version, I recall it does.

    is there an option to re-scan plugins? also can you specify more than one plugin folder to use for vst-i's. theres 2 modules for z3ta, as you said you see the fx one.. but again theres a synth as well.

    if that doesn't work,

    have you 2 folders, 1 for fx and 1 for the synths.. have a look in the program files\cakewalk\z3ta folder

    you should see a DLL files called, "z3ta+.dll" "z3ta+_fx2.dll" and "z3ta+_fx.dll" with the version being 1.5.3 etc and saying "waveshaping synth" copy those files into the place where you instruments are into a place you know works with your other vst instruments. it should work then, unless Acid doesn't scan for new plugins when you start. Most hosts scan for new VST's unless told not to.

    not sure if you need to copy the other folders , such as the resources over to the vst folder also.. hopefully just the vst portion will work.
    #4
    b rock
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/27 19:24:03 (permalink)
    not sure if you need to copy the other folders , such as the resources over to the vst folder also.. hopefully just the vst portion will work.
    I think you're onto something, Paul. I haven't used Acid since 4.0d, but it does seem like the FX libraries are getting recognized. The supporting folders are being accessed (Resources, etc.), or the GUI wouldn't come up when the FX loads up. Now to get the synth library (z3ta+.dll) working ...

    Rrobbone, there's one more file grouped with the ones Fog mentioned: z3ta+.exe. Double-click on that file, and it should bring up the standalone version (z3ta+ microhost). If that is working correctly, then you'll know that the z3ta+ installation is intact. From there, it'll be a matter of getting Acid to recognize the z3ta+.dll.
    #5
    rrobbone
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/27 21:41:29 (permalink)
    did it ask where to place the VST version, I recall it does.


    Yes, it gives me the chance to re-route where it places the files, but I just went with default since that's what I did before.

    is there an option to re-scan plugins?


    Acid allows for this as well, but it's not helping.

    you should see a DLL files called, "z3ta+.dll" "z3ta+_fx2.dll" and "z3ta+_fx.dll" with the version being 1.5.3 etc and saying "waveshaping synth" copy those files into the place where you instruments are into a place you know works with your other vst instruments. it should work then, unless Acid doesn't scan for new plugins when you start. Most hosts scan for new VST's unless told not to.

    not sure if you need to copy the other folders , such as the resources over to the vst folder also.. hopefully just the vst portion will work.


    I did something like this... I downloaded the Rapture demo and Triangle II to get a look at how and where the folders and .dll files are set up. Rapture and Trangle II are routed almost exactly the same way. This is also how I recall the initial Z3ta+ demo to have been set up. So I reinstalled Z3ta+ 1.5.3 and set it up the same way with no luck. I've tried numerous combos to no avail.

    The "z3ta+.dll" file is the synth, right? I'm not silly for thinking this?

    Rrobbone, there's one more file grouped with the ones Fog mentioned: z3ta+.exe. Double-click on that file, and it should bring up the standalone version (z3ta+ microhost). If that is working correctly, then you'll know that the z3ta+ installation is intact. From there, it'll be a matter of getting Acid to recognize the z3ta+.dll.


    Great tip here! Yes, the standalone version works perfectly. I knew that Z3ta+ was working properly because, as mentioned, I can still access it through the effects bus. If it wasn't, I wouldn't even see the GUI. At least I can still play with my new synth, but it's disappointing that I can't use it for it's intended purpose (yet).

    Grrr.

    Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it all.

    I'm not giving up.

    rrobbone
    #6
    b rock
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/28 06:30:09 (permalink)
    The "z3ta+.dll" file is the synth, right?
    Correct. I have one more tactic to try. This may be a long shot, but Acid could be reading the internal I.D.s of the FX and synth libraries as all the same device. Remove the 2 FX libraries, or rename the file extensions for 'z3ta+_fx2.dll' and 'z3ta+_fx.dll', on a temporary basis.

    Then have Acid re-scan the VST folders again, just to see if you get a functioning synth. The FX versions are convenient to have, and save on a little 'horsepower', but you can get much of the same result from the synth by selecting Options -> Audio Input Thru.
    #7
    Fog
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/28 06:46:41 (permalink)
    Randall , don't know if you ever look at the registry..

    you could edit that value, regarding VST folder.. but backup the registry before altering it...you do that at your own risk..


    but if you run "regedit" and do edit > find

    and search for "VST Folder" , hopefully you should get a list of entries relating to it.

    one will say ... install path "C:\Program Files\Cakewalk\z3ta+" (or similar)

    see what shows up, you should get a list with 4 items on it.. one will show the install path, version and another saying where your vst's are kept.. does the VST location match where the rest of your instruments are. You could try editing only that entry regarding to the vst folder.

    if that doesn't work you could try un-installing z3ta. also you said you had the demo version? maybe there are traces of that left still... so unistall that if you haven't already

    then after that try using

    http://www.filehippo.com/download_ccleaner/

    using the registry tab, and it gives you an option to backup the registry.. rescan till it shows zero errors or near zero.. do a reboot and maybe it will work better, but I'm guessing like what Tom (morning) said the VST path isn't exactly correct. Alas I don't use Acid to make life easier, but how it should work from host to host is much of a muchness.
    post edited by Fog - 2008/08/28 06:59:08
    #8
    Crg
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/28 18:44:06 (permalink)
    What Soft Synths come with Acid Pro? Where does the host keep them? Why couldn't you drag and drop the Z3TA+ full Synth to that location from the windows programs menu or the explorer list? Try showing hidden files and folders too. Does Acid Pro allow you to Insert a soft Synth in their track veiw? Make sure you check the about Z3TA+ pop up window to make sure you are actually getting the 1.5.3 version to open. Mine was reading 1.4.1 untill I deleted every instance of 1.4.1 found in a search for files and folders. I got some weird performance problems from the computer trieing to access the file librarys from 1.4.1 that were stuck on the computer from tracks that I had previously saved before doing the delete process to 1.5.3. Some of the files had to removed first before the remaining ones would delete.
    .
    post edited by Crg - 2008/08/28 18:46:10

    Craig DuBuc
    #9
    rrobbone
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/28 23:35:35 (permalink)
    Hey guys,

    I really want to tell you once again that I appreciate the advice and guidance you've provided. It looks as though it's up to us to figure this out because the tech support for Cakewalk and Sony have let me down. I have contacted both of these companies tech before and been very happy with the results, so my replies today have been very disappointing.

    When I contacted Sony they replied:

    "Thank you for contacting Sony Creative Software. You will need to contact Cakewalk to find out whether Z3ta+ is supported in ACID Pro 6. They will also be able to tell you what special steps may be necessary to set this up."

    So all they did to help me was point a big, stinky finger at Cakewalk yelling, "It's not our fault, they started it!!"

    This might not be so insulting, if it weren't for the fact that I told them in my initial email that the demo was running perfectly and that the full version was available to run as an effects VST. Not to mention the fact that in their literature about Acid, they seem very proud of the fact that their latest effort makes a fine VST host. I sent a reply saying that I had purchased their product in good faith and that they should try to help me regardless of whose VST I may be trying to run. I also suggested to make sure they read the f'in email before they answer next time.

    All of this was stated in a professional manner, of course.

    The very next message in my inbox was from Cakewalk. "Ah, salvation," I thought. I will paste it here for you:

    "Thank you for contacting Cakewalk Technical Support. Please install
    the following update:
    http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/kb20070320.asp"

    This, again, seems to be a perfectly reasonable answer to my question.

    The problem is, I told Cakewalk tech support when I contacted them that I had already installed the update and that I was having the same problem with it, too.

    So, again I sent back my original text along with a list of everything I have tried in the meantime and asked them to read it again.

    Jesus, what does a guy have to do to get decent tech support? They didn't even read the explanation I provided them, in great detail, no less.

    So, my next step (prayer?) is to call Sweetwater's tech support. You know, the one they are always on about in their catalogs. I'll let you know how that turns out. What a freakin' soap opera! I just wanna make some blippy noises, for f's sake! I may just go back to playing guitar, at least I know I can fix one of those...

    Sorry, I digress.

    So, I have tried all of your good suggestions, changing the fx.dll names, clearing the registry (I actually have been using ccleaner for a few years, great little tool, thanks for the link and the reminder, I hadn't thought to try it.).

    Acid keeps Kontakt mini version in a different folder than the other VSTs, so I tried moving z3ta+ over there and still have the same problem.

    Acid also allows a soft synth in the track view, that's how I'd like to access it, but I can only do so through my effects sends.

    I checked the version number both in standalone and through the effects bus and they are both showing vers. 1.5.3. I didn't have any saved projects from anything on this computer, so that can't be causing it either.

    *SIGH*

    I'm tired. I'll call Sweetwater in the morning.

    'Night. Thanks.

    Randall
    #10
    chad
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/29 08:47:30 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: rrobbone


    Rrobbone, there's one more file grouped with the ones Fog mentioned: z3ta+.exe. Double-click on that file, and it should bring up the standalone version (z3ta+ microhost). If that is working correctly, then you'll know that the z3ta+ installation is intact. From there, it'll be a matter of getting Acid to recognize the z3ta+.dll.


    Great tip here! Yes, the standalone version works perfectly. I knew that Z3ta+ was working properly because, as mentioned, I can still access it through the effects bus. If it wasn't, I wouldn't even see the GUI. At least I can still play with my new synth, but it's disappointing that I can't use it for it's intended purpose (yet).


    You've mentioned that you've uninstalled/reinstalled z3ta+ many times, but have you tried the same for ACID Pro?

    - Uninstall ACID from the control panel
    - Removing all ACID registry entries
    - Reinstall fresh copy of ACID with all latest updates
    - Launch ACID and rescan VST plug-ins

    #11
    rrobbone
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/29 20:25:43 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: chad


    You've mentioned that you've uninstalled/reinstalled z3ta+ many times, but have you tried the same for ACID Pro?

    - Uninstall ACID from the control panel
    - Removing all ACID registry entries
    - Reinstall fresh copy of ACID with all latest updates
    - Launch ACID and rescan VST plug-ins




    I thought of this too. The only reason I haven't done it is because I lent my install disc out to a friend so he could try it out. I'll go pick it up tomorrow and try it.

    I didn't get the chance to call Sweetwater today, life got in the way. Don't you just love kids?

    Sony and Cakewalk responded with good ideas of things to try tonight so I'll give those a shot, too.

    This wouldn't be such a big deal but this is the first time I am setting up a DAW with the intention of getting serious work done, and not just as a playtoy. As a result, Z3ta+ is my only soft synth so far (at least for a couple weeks).

    Grr.

    Thanks again, will update soon.

    R
    #12
    Crg
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/29 20:47:33 (permalink)
    Z3TA+ is your only soft Synth? Does that mean Sony Acid Pro does not come with any Soft Synths? If that is the case, it probably does not have the file system to accept one in other than an effects configuration.

    Acid also allows a soft synth in the track view, that's how I'd like to access it, but I can only do so through my effects sends.

    You're saying two things at once here. Does it allow you to insert a soft synth into the track veiw as a seperate track or into the effects in the track veiw?

    If I were you and I wanted to get some serious work done with soft synths, I'd upgrade my DAW software to Sonar 7 Pro Suite rather than fight a software compatibility battle that hasn't been handled yet.
    ORIGINAL: rrobbone


    ORIGINAL: chad


    You've mentioned that you've uninstalled/reinstalled z3ta+ many times, but have you tried the same for ACID Pro?

    - Uninstall ACID from the control panel
    - Removing all ACID registry entries
    - Reinstall fresh copy of ACID with all latest updates
    - Launch ACID and rescan VST plug-ins




    I thought of this too. The only reason I haven't done it is because I lent my install disc out to a friend so he could try it out. I'll go pick it up tomorrow and try it.

    I didn't get the chance to call Sweetwater today, life got in the way. Don't you just love kids?

    Sony and Cakewalk responded with good ideas of things to try tonight so I'll give those a shot, too.

    This wouldn't be such a big deal but this is the first time I am setting up a DAW with the intention of getting serious work done, and not just as a playtoy. As a result, Z3ta+ is my only soft synth so far (at least for a couple weeks).

    Grr.

    Thanks again, will update soon.

    R


    Craig DuBuc
    #13
    rrobbone
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/30 17:25:19 (permalink)
    Qapla'!!!

    The Sony tech told me how to reset all preferences at boot up and that (finally!) worked.

    Z3ta+ is running like a dream.

    Me likey much. Me happy now.

    Crg, Z3ta+ is my only retail soft synth. Don't misunderstand, I have freeware synths to play with as well (no pirated versions, thank you), but I am favoring the flexibility and ease of use of the ones made by established companies. There are some great free synths out there to be sure, but they all seem to be very specific in purpose (in relation to their sonic ranges).

    If you have any suggestions of freeware I might be interested in (trance, industrial, hardrock, big beat), feel free to notify me. I have been going down the list in KVR's freeware database and haven't really found any thing amazing yet. At least nothing on par with Rapture, Z3ta+, Blue, Absynth, etc. This could also be because I'm a guitar player just getting my feet wet in the waters of digital production and I don't yet have enough practice massaging the sounds I want out of them. In fact, this is more than likely.

    The version of Acid I have came with a stripped version of Native Instruments' Kompakt. It is filed differently than the rest of the VSTi's, but I didn't see this as the cause of the problem because of the fact that all of the free VSTi's were working from their proper location. So was the Rapture demo, which had an almost identical file path to Z3ta+.

    In addition, I did not install Kompakt (so it couldn't have been fouling things up), because initially I didn't like it very much. I'll probably install it and try it out at length to see if it grows on me.

    Acid also allows a soft synth in the track view, that's how I'd like to access it, but I can only do so through my effects sends.

    You're saying two things at once here. Does it allow you to insert a soft synth into the track veiw as a seperate track or into the effects in the track veiw?


    Actually, it does both of these things. I can set Z3ta+ to play MIDI or recorded material in the track view.

    I can also set the effects bus in Acid to use the effects onboard Z3ta+ to alter a dry signal sent from another source, say my Korg. So If I like a patch from my Korg, but I want a tap delay or arp from Z3ta+, I can set this up. All in the track view.

    I'm not sure that you can't do that in other software, I'm just saying that it's cool and quite useful.


    So, thanks to everyone who pitched in with your ideas and thoughts, I really appreciate it.

    I don't know a whole lot about this stuff just yet, but I'll visit here often and try to help where I can.

    Thanks again.

    R
    #14
    Crg
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/30 22:26:23 (permalink)
    The Sony tech told me how to reset all preferences at boot up and that (finally!) worked


    That's interesting, what preferences did you have to reset?

    Craig DuBuc
    #15
    rrobbone
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/30 22:54:08 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: Crg

    The Sony tech told me how to reset all preferences at boot up and that (finally!) worked


    That's interesting, what preferences did you have to reset?


    I haven't the first freakin' clue....

    I'm guessing it was a reset to all default preferences.

    I'll have no way of really knowing until I get into production and need to do it again. (I hope this doesn't happen again.)
    #16
    Crg
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/30 22:59:25 (permalink)
    Ahh!, Once again the EASY button changes everything. Let us all know how it goes.

    Craig DuBuc
    #17
    chad
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/31 08:11:30 (permalink)
    Glad to see you up and running!
    #18
    rrobbone
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    RE: Z3ta+ install problems 2008/08/31 22:22:32 (permalink)
    Yeah, the easy button is wonderful.

    Shame they don't tell us where it is in the manual.

    Have a good rough draft of a song from an arp line I had going through my head the whole time I was fighting with Acid Pro.

    It's so nice to have everything running well..

    (*Large explosion takes out entire building*)
    #19
    goldy26
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    Re:Z3ta+ install problems 2010/08/30 12:09:57 (permalink)
    Hi!
    I'm having the same prrobem as you rrobbone. Using acid pro 5. Z3ta+ shows as a fx rather then a vsti. What did sony tell you to do?
     
    #20
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