amps..

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ibanplayer
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2007/02/04 20:03:40 (permalink)

amps..

this isnt really cakewalk related, but we are family right? i was looking for a better amp, and well all these cabinets say 400W, but when you get down to it, its just 4 100W speakers. well the amp heads im looking at are at least 150W. the cabs say 400w handling but is it really that? or is it just 100w handling? and how big of a venue can you play with an amp head of 120 - 150 w and a 400w (4 100w) cab, and possible another one of those cabinets. speaking of that, is it worth getting 2 cabinets....does it add that much more power for bigger crowds?

-The Love Panda

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    ibanplayer
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/04 20:55:11 (permalink)
    does anyone know???

    -The Love Panda

    #2
    Peter Rabbit
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/04 21:03:04 (permalink)

    Wish I could help you buddy. Unfortunately I know absolutely nothing about it. I'm happy just running through my little PODxt into my home stereo unit. Actually sounds quite nice but that's not going to help you any with what you're trying to accomplish.

    I think this is a question for shredheadinstead, or Bozak, or millerbill.

    "Creating a bad song takes just as much time and energy as creating a good one. The problem is that you don't know it's a bad song until someone tells you, and by then it's too late."
    P. Rabbit
    #3
    ibanplayer
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/04 21:08:57 (permalink)
    oh, ok, hope they see this

    -The Love Panda

    #4
    Peter Rabbit
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/04 21:18:07 (permalink)

    Let's also mention joeh20_444 and Robomusic. Maybe if they run searches on their names they'll find this post.

    "Creating a bad song takes just as much time and energy as creating a good one. The problem is that you don't know it's a bad song until someone tells you, and by then it's too late."
    P. Rabbit
    #5
    gamblerschoice
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/05 00:01:45 (permalink)
    The power handling ability of the speaker cab does not add to the power of the amp...if you are running thru a 150w amp, anything over that, say two 100w speakers, three 100 watt speakers, etc., just more speaker paper, not more power. That being said, 150w could be much less going to the speakers, the rms value is what is being sent down the line. This is actually a pretty complex, and very interesting part of electric music...and if you have read some of my past posts, you may recall that my memory, or lack there-of, gets me in trouble on ocasion. You might do yourself some good surfing for info on speaker building, the audiophile threads, people who build cabinets to handle specific watt aplifiers. Some things add up, others divide , ie., two 8ohm speakers wired in series creates a 16ohm load to the amp, wired in parallel its a 8ohm load to the amp, if i remember correctly. But the wattage is cumulative, two 100w speakers in series or parallel is 200w. The thing is, I can't remeber if that was correct or not, but I can find out, by searching the proper sites on the web, or looking in my old notes, or books. But not at midnight, on a work night. For the most part, 150w amp into a 400w cab would work well, two cabs would be more to carry, more to hook up, more to keep an eye on, etc. The rabbit was correct about the others in the forum, some of them might get a laugh from my response, but I just thought it might help to suggest the research direction, you might be suprised how much math and science goes into the whole art of making loud noise.
    Later
    Albert

    http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/lothlorienfantasy
    http://www.gamblerschoice.us/



    He's a walking contradiction,
    partly truth and partly fiction, takin' every wrong direction on that
    lonesome road back home.
    #6
    Robomusic
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/05 00:57:19 (permalink)
    I agree more cabs do not make more sound more amps make more sound, and efficiency comes into play as well, what is the ohm rating of the speakers, is the amp pus=hing to hard or barley working. this kind of stuff will be better answerd on a site like audiominds.com or even the sonar forum since many of them are either Pro or semi pro. Go over to Audiominds.com and ask for Mac he is an wylie old vet of the music buz and either he or some of the fellas there can help.

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    #7
    57Gregy
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/05 22:22:46 (permalink)
    I've used as little as my 65W Crate amp through a single 12 incher in bars, and it did fine. 125W Peaveys, 50W Fenders. All work well in club-like settings, but this isn't the seventies anymore. Nowadays, whatever amp you use is going to be mic'd and run through a huge PA system.
    Greg

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    #8
    shredheadinstead
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/06 02:32:07 (permalink)
    Todd, first things first, we need to look at the a few questions:

    1) What kind of music will you be playing in front of people?
    2) How many will be listening to you play if you had to guess?
    3) How much are you willing to spend?

    Like gamblerschoice said above, it's more to hook up if you were to get another cabinget. All it's doing is giving you a surround sound atmosphere, however, this is useless if your playing in a bar or a club. If your playing on stage, or an auditorium in front of a thousand people or so, I'd highly reccomend it, due to the size of the room and its needs for sound absorbtion. A 4x12 will do you fine. I hope you didn't buy anything yet, becuase my setup cose under a grand, and it kicks right up with the best of them. Give this a try. My tone has never sounded this good. Here is what I have setup right now that I purchased from GuitarCenter:

    1) 1 4x12 Peavey ValveKing Tube Cabinet
    2) Crate Powerblock 150 watt stereo power amp

    That's it. That's all I use, and I use this for all my gigs and shows. The powerblock can actually fit in a bag and you can carry it along with you, like the lunch your mother made you when you were off to school in elementary school! I'll post a link to both products. If you want to save money, but get that near-perfect tone, I'd reccomend investing in this setup. Good luck, and great question! Take care.

    Bryant

    Link:

    1) http://www.crateamps.com/html/series.cfm?sid=15

    2) http://www.peavey.com/products/browse.cfm/action/detail/item/116190/number/00575760/cat/308/begin/1/ValveKing%AE+412+Slant.cfm
    post edited by shredheadinstead - 2007/02/06 02:55:14
    #9
    gamblerschoice
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/06 23:02:42 (permalink)
    My old kustom head weighed 75lbs, and it was only 100w rms, plus that huge speaker cab...I don't miss carrying it around, up steps,stc...that little thing is too much. But they got to be teasing you when you set up, at least until they hear it.
    Like 57gregy said, this ain't the 70's any more. A small amp with good tone is so much easier to carry, and if the room is on the large size, mic thru the pa. But 65w to 150w with two 12" speakers will fill almost any average bar with plenty of sound. The new speakers are loud, and tone is the big thing these days.
    Later
    Albert

    http://www.showcaseyourmusic.com/lothlorienfantasy
    http://www.gamblerschoice.us/



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    partly truth and partly fiction, takin' every wrong direction on that
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    #10
    Robomusic
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/07 02:29:11 (permalink)
    Heck 30 watts on a tube amp is loud, 65 to 150 on a solid state.

    Personally some of my favs these days are the crate Palamino 32, the Epi blues custom, but the best sounding i have tried are the Carvin Steve Vai series loads of tone and power for reasonable money http://www.carvin.com/products/group.php?CID=GAL

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    #11
    meadowman
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/08 09:42:31 (permalink)
    As long as we are on the subject of live gigs, do you folks have recommendations for monitors?

    meadowman

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    #12
    wickerman
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/08 22:07:04 (permalink)
    Well, if you have a 100W head and a 4*12 cab...that's plenty loud...but it depends on the location you are playing as to if it will be enough volume or not. If you add another 4*12 cab to that setup you'll get a better sound without pushing the amp harder, just because the speakers aren't having to work so hard...but it won't get louder - you're just spreading the output power across more outputs (speakers).

    I used to run a Peavey Classic Chorus 2*12 @ 100W and that thing was a monster...regulary jammed without running into a PA, but again the locations didn't call for more power on my end. I also played with a Peavey TransTube Supreme 100W into 4*12 and it was plenty as well.

    Remember dB is a perception in increase, so if you're thinking 100W isn't enough...going 200W isn't going to double your output...you'd need to go onwards up to something like 400W to get a noticeable increase in output.

    I'm way late on this, hope this helps out some.
    #13
    shredheadinstead
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/09 04:59:22 (permalink)
    Holy Macral!

    Wickerman, do they really make a 400w amp head? Or is this included with the PA? I thought the Marshall TSL2000 Triple Super Lead was like the highest wattage you could get (300w standalone).
    #14
    joeh20_444
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/09 09:47:37 (permalink)
    I'd say stick with a combo amp and mic it or run it into PA. It's easier to make the combos louder, but hard to turn down the stacks while maintaining any sort of good tone. I'm using a Fender Cybertwin, and I have yet to (after several gigs) put the master volume past 5, if that's any indication.

    meadowman,

    I have always had better luck with JBL and Peavey monitors. JBL's sound great, and Peaveys are built like tanks. Really, with live monitoring, it's more a matter of what equipment can survive multiple gigs and not really what sounds the best. I mean, it's important to sound good, but if it doesn't survive gig 1...
    #15
    wickerman
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/13 21:34:05 (permalink)
    bryant, i don't think so anymore - you'd be looking at chaining amps together to get that power outside a PA system. I used to own a really old peavy head that was 300W...the thing was a monster - i had to leave it with a friend when i moved...don't know if i'll ever get it back now.

    #16
    shredheadinstead
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/14 01:09:01 (permalink)
    Bummer. What kind of head was it. Please don't tell me it was a Stilleto :( Than again, there pretty recent amps though.
    #17
    Robomusic
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    RE: amps.. 2007/02/14 22:56:35 (permalink)
    What kind of gig? If a large bar type setting try some floor JBLs 12 or 15s for a small coffee shop some mini moniotrs will do just something to keep you from over singing. I have a pair of 4 inch powered monitors that work well for personal work, great to set up at the bottom of the mike stand, i am going to buy a set of kustom 15s for live work and use my kustom 10s for monitors, these are not the greatest but the 15 inch are $99 each at Musicians friend and the 10s are $59 each a very eco way to PA up for small venues.

    I'd Seize the day but i can't quite reach it!

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    #18
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