analog signal path simulation questions

My objective is to create a good starting point for all my tracks.  I know the answer is always "It Depends: but there was a time when it didnt.  You had a mixing board and a tape machine and everything ran through it.  Thats what Im trying to setup.  My version of a studio sound using the following plugs.
 
UAD Ampex ATR
Waves Master Tape
Waves SSL
Waves NLS
 
---Track---
Waves Master Tape -->[other track specific plugs]--> SSL E Channel --> NLS Channel
 
---Bus/Master---
NLS Bus -->[other Bus specific plugs]--> SSL Bus Comp --> UAD Ampex ATR
 
Thoughts?
 
Jeff
 

Thats very helpful.  It never occured to me that if I like the sound then I should use it.  Sorry to be sarcastic but I always wonder if people just copy/paste that response from a word document they have on the side. 

It's also not true unless the only person who listens to your recording is yourself.  I may think digital cliping sounds great but that doesnt mean I'm right. 

If you dont have any actual thoughts on the setup or the merits of trying to achieve a "sound" by using some amount of consistent plugins then thats fine.  But posting another "if it sounds good" may add to your post count but it doesnt help anyone.

Then shut down all the schools that teach this stuff.  you may have 30000 posts but if they are all as insightful as these you need to find another way to occupy your time. 

Lets do reviews of plugins....

uhhh sounds good

uhhh I dont think it sounds good

I wasnt looking for a "correct answer" as I indicated when I said "I know it depends".  That was my way of saying dont waste your time copying and pasting your "it depends" post into the quick reply.

I spent a little money and I've been working with the programs and I just came by to talk about it a little.  But thanks for taking the time to say STFU and dont ask stupid questions like "do you have any thoughts on this?" because there is no correct answer.  

Ampex is UAD's 2 channel mastering tape plugin and it is very high quality.  They have the Studer A8 multitrack tape but i am running a solo card and studer and ampex use a lot of the chips capacity.  Im trying out the Waves tape to add a little color to each track but I may switch over to toneboosters reelbus because the waves seems to be more of an effect than a sim to me.

Waves manual says to use it where I listed it but it seems intuitive to me to set it up the way you are suggesting.

For the record, NLS is really remarkable.  Much better than I expected. 

At the end of it I expect Im going to need to use them all very sparingly since there is a real summing effect to having them all on a project together.

Its an opinion I agree.  Insulting, cliche, unhelpful, condesending and in this case not relevant to the OP but other than that reasonable and certainly an opinion.  Ill admit I jumped on it because its irritating.  and if you think about it, it is totally untrue.  If you read my post Im asking about setting up a series of plugins to create the effect of working in an analog environment as if I had a mixing board and tape setup that I used with whatever I was working on.  thats a very specific objective and quite frankly very much what people used to do in an analog environment.  There are all kinds of other plugins to work with if Im working on electronic or rock or a ballad to get the sound I want. 

If I asked whether mixing red and blue would make purple because i want to have purple base on my painting, a painter could answer that without telling me something inane like "if you like the way it looks then its purple.  Duh".

But that's all rather specific stuff. Without us all firing up our rigs and trying to simulate your specific plug in path how can we know? And moreover if we haven't used that type of set up in an analog environment what do we have to compare it all to? So sure someone on here may know exactly what you are getting at but most won't. His OP may have been a little glib but it was friendly and well meaning in tone. No need to go on the defensive. And the painting analogy is flawed as there are many shades of purple and only YOU can decide which shade will suit your painting. The point is you'll get better and more helpful answers just taking things in stride. Everyone here is pretty friendly and helpful. I hope you find what you are looking for. BTW this really is more of a topic for the "Techniques" sub forum. Cheers.

I'm just saying, life's too short to get upset about stuff like that. It is an interesting topic and something I'm interested in myself but I'm just not at the knowledge/skill level yet. Hope it all works out for ya. Take care.

Jackel


Ampex is UAD's 2 channel mastering tape plugin and it is very high quality.  They have the Studer A8 multitrack tape but i am running a solo card and studer and ampex use a lot of the chips capacity.  Im trying out the Waves tape to add a little color to each track but I may switch over to toneboosters reelbus because the waves seems to be more of an effect than a sim to me.

Waves manual says to use it where I listed it but it seems intuitive to me to set it up the way you are suggesting.

For the record, NLS is really remarkable.  Much better than I expected. 

At the end of it I expect Im going to need to use them all very sparingly since there is a real summing effect to having them all on a project together.

I'm terribly envious although it's a very un-zen way to be. Anyways, agreed, it's probably one of those things where if you can hear it (in terms of any specific component adding too much flavour) it may end up being a bit much. That being said, they tossed out some pretty awesome records using this gear so... Besides, in a way the point is exactly that - to get the colour. Certainly you can get away with specific situations where you whack something hard on purpose like a funky rhythm guitar but in the end subtlety may be the key.
 
It is a little odd that Waves would suggest going thru the tape emu -before- the mixing channels, wonder what that's all about. I'll have to go read my plug-in guide (ver 7) or check the site to see if they give specifics. Any idea if it's online somewhere?
 
My biggest concern would be watching the overall compression "summing" as tape saturation decreases dynamics (compresses) a little and you'll have a string of other compressors in the mix, not that I'm telling you anything you don't likely know. Fortunately the Waves emus are pretty good so unless you drive things too hard it should be cool, the emus can be very subtle as well.
 
I remember when Cbase allowed projects where all tracks could have the tape sat effect but back then without farm cards there was no way. I've often done essentially what you are setting up here but for me it's a labor of love because I have to render so many tracks individually as I go, just don't have the kind of horsepower you do.
 
Looking forward to hearing where this goes.

SToons

Jackel


Ampex is UAD's 2 channel mastering tape plugin and it is very high quality.  They have the Studer A8 multitrack tape but i am running a solo card and studer and ampex use a lot of the chips capacity.  Im trying out the Waves tape to add a little color to each track but I may switch over to toneboosters reelbus because the waves seems to be more of an effect than a sim to me.

Waves manual says to use it where I listed it but it seems intuitive to me to set it up the way you are suggesting.

For the record, NLS is really remarkable.  Much better than I expected. 

At the end of it I expect Im going to need to use them all very sparingly since there is a real summing effect to having them all on a project together.

I'm terribly envious although it's a very un-zen way to be. Anyways, agreed, it's probably one of those things where if you can hear it (in terms of any specific component adding too much flavour) it may end up being a bit much. That being said, they tossed out some pretty awesome records using this gear so... Besides, in a way the point is exactly that - to get the colour. Certainly you can get away with specific situations where you whack something hard on purpose like a funky rhythm guitar but in the end subtlety may be the key.
 
It is a little odd that Waves would suggest going thru the tape emu -before- the mixing channels, wonder what that's all about. I'll have to go read my plug-in guide (ver 7) or check the site to see if they give specifics. Any idea if it's online somewhere?
 
My biggest concern would be watching the overall compression "summing" as tape saturation decreases dynamics (compresses) a little and you'll have a string of other compressors in the mix, not that I'm telling you anything you don't likely know. Fortunately the Waves emus are pretty good so unless you drive things too hard it should be cool, the emus can be very subtle as well.
 
I remember when Cbase allowed projects where all tracks could have the tape sat effect but back then without farm cards there was no way. I've often done essentially what you are setting up here but for me it's a labor of love because I have to render so many tracks individually as I go, just don't have the kind of horsepower you do.
 
Looking forward to hearing where this goes.

My wife is a singer who has trio that does a 30's & 40's show and a 50's & 60's.  We are going to start tracking the group to make a CD so Im trying to wrap my head around the sound a little better.  Ill post some of it as I go.

And for that type of work good microphones are probably your best bet. You shouldn't need to screw around with effects and stuff too much. Good, clear, warm signals properly mixed go a long way for that type of music. Maybe... MAYBE look at some external mic preamps.

I'd consentrate on the front end, rather than trying to add after the fact.  Your above input channel is the sm7b, which is most often used for "power" recording - announcer vo, rap, bass guitar, kick and those sort of sounds.  Doesn't mean it can't work on all sounds, but it will impart that dynamic tint.  The Grace, in contrast, is usually considered a clean pre.  What you seem to be adding in the digital realm is trying to make up for the the sound you are actually capturing - the sll channel, tape, etc.  An LCD mic should make a greater difference in the quality of vox and could get closer to what you want than all the post effects you could buy.  Or an SCD on a female voice, rather than the  "monster truck rally" vibe associated w/ the sm7.

Personally, I've found that a nice transformer-based preamp goes a long way to deliver the console sound we associate w/ the big studio sound (an uber channel strip even better, since internally it mimics a lot of the circuitry of a console).  The preamp can provide a nice rounding of the signal to the sharp, precise conversion found in most converters, along with a low-mid hump many digital channel strips try to replicate.  I've been testing the Warm WA12, an api-like preamp.  It is a great solution to the sharp digital sound most home studios get.  And yea, you can't strap it across every channel, but if many your acoustics go through it you get a nice, full sound naturally, and can say the digital emulations as special effects or draw attention to a track or two.  The rest just sound good w/o it.

And seeing you are trying to do 40s-50s songs, a cheap but good long-ribbon motor mic might help.  Like a transformer-based preamp, it can roll off some of the bright highs and leave more meat.

@

OK - that's better. Going in the right direction anyway. I'm not sure how you've set up your recording path, so I'll just do a
little spitballing here. Did you record tracks all together, or just the rhythm first, then the guitar, then the vocal? If you think you lack
experience mixing, it's better maybe to track parts separately. It's easier to get a good result. In this mix, the guitar is stepping
on the vocal somewhat. You need to adjust so that her voice is clearly in the middle and front of the stage. If you feel like the
performance itself loses something this way, you should at least try to isolate yourselves from each other while tracking
(hang blankets, use diffferent rooms, etc.) so you aren't bleeding into each other's mic. Second, it sounds like you recorded
guitar off the cabinet. I could be wrong but that's what it sounds like. If you used the SM7, try the Rode also. Try moving the
mic around a little, varying angle and distance. Just an inch or two can make a real difference but you need some more definition
in the sound. Otherwise, you can try recording direct. Third, it seems like the vocal mic is just wrong for her voice. When you
have time, you could shop someplace in Chicago or Terra Haute and demo everything in their mic cabinet. I'll bet she would find
something she really likes. And you might find something better for the guitar. It sounds like you're recording in a small room
with a low ceiling, so more isolation again would be a big help. Last, you'll need to get a copy of autotune or something like it.
And please don't be insulted. Everybody tunes. Best of luck to you.