chuckebaby
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any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
i really need to figure out a way to control the input volume for x1..i usually control the input volume from my interface but i cant get my focusrite hot enough to drive my effect for a decent volume..in other words the more i turn up my interface the hotter the signal which inturn works the preamps the way i want..because i have to turndown my interface so i dont clip out the input meters,im not able to get my preamps rich enough to drive my guitar rig.so the sound is dull.if i turn up my interface to drive guitar rig it sounds great.but clips..any work arounds?
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HumbleNoise
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 00:37:23
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Humbly Yours Larry Sonar X2 x64 MAudio 2496 Yamaha MG 12/4 Roland XV-88 Intel MB with Q6600 and 4 GB Ram NVidia 9800 GTX Windows 7 x64 Home Premium
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chuckebaby
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 00:56:23
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larry i might..but i dont know because i dont have much of a problem controling volume..i just cant turn my interface up past 2 without it cliping..so i dont know..will a di help me crank this thing but keep my level down on sonar?..you may be right larry..im going to look closer into this..thanks buddy
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...wicked
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 01:43:42
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In short, yes. There's a separate Gain control that's pre fx-bin that you can use to knock it down. You still gotta make sure you're not driving too hot going into your audio interface but if your levels are good there (you can prolly check your interface's mixer app to see) than use input gain to hit it down before fx bin and Volume controls.
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Kurtly
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 01:46:07
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If it's for a driven guitar sound you could run a compressor/limiter. Either a hardware before A/D conversion or a software one. A DI will drop the level quite a bit, as well as making sure the impedance is matched to the guitar's output. Oh, and if it "sounds great", does it matter if it's clipped?
post edited by Kurtly - 2011/03/30 01:48:38
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Barczar
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 07:22:39
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chuckebaby,
I had the same problem. Here's what I did. Set your input volume on your audio interface just below clipping. Turn off input monitoring. You only want to hear the processed audio. On your audio track, turn down the gain, and a little on the track volume. On guitar rig, watch your input signal and move the slider [ I didn't know there was a slider there] until you get a good signal without clipping. Do the same for the output signal. You should be good to go.
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chuckebaby
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 09:27:49
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Barczar
chuckebaby,
I had the same problem. Here's what I did. Set your input volume on your audio interface just below clipping. Turn off input monitoring. You only want to hear the processed audio. On your audio track, turn down the gain, and a little on the track volume. On guitar rig, watch your input signal and move the slider [ I didn't know there was a slider there] until you get a good signal without clipping. Do the same for the output signal. You should be good to go.
thank you..but turning off input monitoring doesnt effect the incoming signal..i need to turn the input signal up on my interface..i cant even get the interface to clip out because before i do.my input level on sonar clips
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Barczar
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 09:48:35
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Input monitoring doesn't effect the input signal, you're right. But it does effect what you hear. The clean signal is going to mixed with processed signal for undesired results. On my Focusrite usb 6 it's a knob. I turn it all the way to the right for just the processed signal. If your clipping in Sonar, turn down the track gain 80%. and back off on the track volume 50%. Once you get a good signal and you get the desired sound, you can up the track volume to match your project. On the Guitar rig interface input and output meters there is a slider in the signal field. It doesn't look like one, but it's there. The trick is to slide the input signal to just before clipping. It's the same effect as trying to drive a tube amp with your guitar volume turned down half way. You would get the same results.
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Beagle
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 09:57:05
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you cannot affect the incoming signal strength with sonar - that's done with the hardware. yes, you can adjust the mixing level in sonar, but not the actual gain of the signal. once the converters in the hardware have converted the signal from analog to digital then the signal gain is set and sonar cannot affect the input gain because it's AFTER the converters in your soundcard.
what you need is a solution like Humblenoise is suggesting, or a better preamp going into your soundcard at line level.
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Twigman
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 10:24:48
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Does your interface not have a mixer where you can adjust the input gain?
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chuckebaby
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 10:32:58
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yes it does have a mixer control twig..problem is..i cant turn the mixer signal up load enough to get my pre amps working.like..this is an example..i set the clip meter on my interface..so its barely hitting the red..i open up sonar..i open a track and look at my input signal..(its through the roof on sonar) so i have to back off on the gain on my interface..by the time i get a decnt level with out clipping in sonar my interface volume is tuned down to as low as it can go.there for the sound comming out of my interface is weak..(im not even hitting the point where my preamps should be giving a good output volume..i cant..it will clip my sonar input level
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Barczar
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 10:41:28
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Do you have db pad on that interface? If yes, try it.
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Barczar
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 10:43:53
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You have the same interface I do. Are you plugged into the left input? Do you have the instrument button engaged? Do you have the db pad engaged?
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chuckebaby
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 11:11:48
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Barczar
You have the same interface I do. Are you plugged into the left input? Do you have the instrument button engaged? Do you have the db pad engaged?
thanks barczar..sorry its taking me so long i was doing some searches on it..yes i do have a pad..when i pad it..it gets low and i can turn it up a bit but still not enough to work the preamps..please do me a favor..try this..plug it in to sonar(please) and load guitar rig 4...use the preset "dual riff".now find a happy level where it doesnt clip in sonar..listen..its okay right..a little weak right?..now crank up the saffire about half way more and ignore the clipping on sonar...can you hear the difference..how it drives guitar rig..do you see how the preamps are getting nice and hot when you turn it up..ive tried boosting guitar rigs input settings..but to me...without feeding guitar rig 4 a nice warm signal it sounds weak
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chuckebaby
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 11:14:51
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yes..left side..yes instrument button engaged..yes pad engaged..thats why im thinking a di pad will not help..because i need something to plug in inbetween the usb cable to my computer..not from my guitar to the focusrite..see??..i just wish there was some way to lower the volume of the output of my interface without messing with the integrity of my input volume
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StarTekh
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 11:17:09
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Barczar
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 11:23:26
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I'll have to try that when I get home. (at work right now) I have another question. Have you tried Guitar rig in stand alone mode? Do you have the same problems? I had the exact same problems you are having just yesterday as a matter of fact. Weak signal and the presets sound like garbage. Until I found the input slider and messed with the volumes in Sonar. The setup I recommended was the one that worked for me., ymmv
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chuckebaby
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 13:52:57
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Barczar
I'll have to try that when I get home. (at work right now) I have another question. Have you tried Guitar rig in stand alone mode? Do you have the same problems? I had the exact same problems you are having just yesterday as a matter of fact. Weak signal and the presets sound like garbage. Until I found the input slider and messed with the volumes in Sonar. The setup I recommended was the one that worked for me., ymmv
im going to give give your idea a shot and report back to you.thanks barczar.
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chuckebaby
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/30 16:08:57
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it didnt really give it the boost i was looking for.i am going to try running through a d.i. box later on to see if this makes a difference.im not sure it will because my problem exists between the interface and the computer not the instrument and the interface
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chuckebaby
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/31 01:08:27
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still no luck.i couldnt borrow the di tonight as my sound engineer had a show but im hoping tommorow night.please keep some ides comming
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amac
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/31 08:23:14
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I have had the same issue. I tried several solutions, and the only thing that helped me was light compression from an external compressor between the guitar and the interface. It turns out that my playing style includes some transients that clip the interface while my average signal is well below these very short peaks. You have to be careful and compress lightly in order to preserve the original sound.
I had hoped my new ff800 would be able to record directly from the high impedance input without an external compressor, but alas it is still required.
YMMV
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UnderTow
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/31 08:49:54
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Maybe I'm reading you wrong but from the description you give, it seems that all you need to do is play with the input and output levels of Guitar Rig. When you say "preamps" you mean the virtual ones in Guitar Rig, right?
It seems to me that you need to set your levels with nothing inserted in the track. Adjust your interface level so that you are not ever clipping. Once that is set, don't change it any more! Now insert GR4 and do any level adjusting you need purely within GR4. I am guessing it has a floating point path throughout so you can increase the input of GR4 as long as you also lower the output so that it doesn't clip. You can also lower the track level in Sonar but I think it is neater to get GR4 to a reasonable level first. Especially if you are going to insert any more FX after GR4.
UnderTow
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chuckebaby
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/31 08:51:17
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this seems to be a big issue now a days with interfaces..to drive those pre amps you need to turn them up a bit..but you cant or youll clip..sonar needs to implement an input gain control,no if ands or buts.what is so difficult about adding an input gain control?
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chuckebaby
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/31 08:52:08
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because in all reality the only way to achieve this is by putting a di between the interface and the computer..which is inpossible
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chuckebaby
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/31 08:57:19
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UnderTow
Maybe I'm reading you wrong but from the description you give, it seems that all you need to do is play with the input and output levels of Guitar Rig. When you say "preamps" you mean the virtual ones in Guitar Rig, right?
It seems to me that you need to set your levels with nothing inserted in the track. Adjust your interface level so that you are not ever clipping. Once that is set, don't change it any more! Now insert GR4 and do any level adjusting you need purely within GR4. I am guessing it has a floating point path throughout so you can increase the input of GR4 as long as you also lower the output so that it doesn't clip. You can also lower the track level in Sonar but I think it is neater to get GR4 to a reasonable level first. Especially if you are going to insert any more FX after GR4.
UnderTow
no undertow,i mean the the preamps on the interface.it seems i cant even get the interface past 1 or 2 with out it clipping out on sonars input level.. so in order to get those pre ams working to full potential you need to be at least half way.it all about proper gain staging.and if im running a weak signal into guitar rig,im going to be getting a weak sound coming out.thanks for responding.this is really been driving me nuts.
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UnderTow
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/31 09:14:37
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The way you describe things it seems like they got the gain staging wrong in the Saffire or they just don't expect you to drive the preamps as hard. They probably assume the client wants them be as clean as possible. What happens if you set it so that it doesn't clip and increase the input slider in GR and get all your colouration from GR and not from the preamps in the Saffire? If this doesn't suite you and you want colouring before the signal is converted to digital, you would need an external preamp that includes an output control so that you can drive it nicely but keep the outgoing signal level low enough for the Saffire converters. PS: An input gain level in Sonar won't work because if Sonar is clipping, then your converters are by definition also clipping. By the time the signal reaches Sonar it is too late to do what you want. The signal would already be clipped. UnderTow
post edited by UnderTow - 2011/03/31 09:16:21
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/31 09:35:36
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what is so difficult about adding an input gain control? Because by its very nature, it will have to come AFTER your convertors - ergo too late to prevent clipping.
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Beagle
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/31 10:03:19
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chuckebaby
this seems to be a big issue now a days with interfaces..to drive those pre amps you need to turn them up a bit..but you cant or youll clip..sonar needs to implement an input gain control,no if ands or buts.what is so difficult about adding an input gain control?
see post #9. you can't control the input gain after it's been converted to digital - that's AFTER the input. I think undertow is probably onto the correct solution. if a DI is not working for you then you need to get a preamp that you like and drive the output to line level so that you're bypassing the preamp of the saffire. you'll use the LINE level input on the saffire from the output of an outboard preamp.
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Barczar
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/31 11:08:09
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Okay chuckebaby I think I found something. I did like you asked and I did get the same results you did. My latentcy was bad as well. I inserted an audio track into a practice project I've been using. Here's a question. Are you trying all of these suggetions in the same project? After I got the results you did with "Dual Riff" I closed that project and opened up another project I have been practicing on. And I did not have the problem with my audio levels. One curious with the focusrite usb 6 is that even with the input down to zero, I still get a signal. However, with the input at 3, i get no clipping anywhere. I think Undertow is on the same page. Try a different project and try working the I\O on the Guitar Rig interface.
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AT
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Re:any possible way to control input volume in x1 when recording???
2011/03/31 12:41:29
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Chucke,
let me get this straight. You want to saturate your preamp to get a tone to send to your convertor (Saffire). Then you want to send that to SONAR to further manipulate in GR w/in SONAR.
The problem is with the IC transformerless preamp in the Saffire. It doesn't get the tone you want w/o overdriving your convertor.
Solution - a transformer designed preamp/DI before the input on the Saffire. IC's, well cheap ones, anyway, like in most interfaces, don't saturate. They distort, in an unpleasant way. So you need to spend some money for a preamp/DI to get the reaquesit tone before the Saffire. The Gap Preamp ($300) or a Focurite ISA One ($500) will do the trick. The Gap esp. will allow you to manipulate the tone by using the input and output to drive the sound, and that will go easily into the Saffire. Or for less money get either a Radial DI (or something similiar) or the EHY tube preamp - around ($200). An Art MP is only $50, and may give you the tone you want, tho it uses a starved plate and is more "fluffy". It is great on bass, tho. Any of these will give you a tone which the Saffire can easily handle.
Or do it the old fashioned way and use an amp and mic (Shure 57 - $100) directly into the Saffire.
Right now you are trying to use a screwdriver to hammer a nail.
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