are you a software thief ?

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pgw
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 13:50:49 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: HammerHead
do you download from bittorrent ?
usenet ?
warez sites ?
only you know the answer.
certain to be an overwhelming YES from this crowd.


Are we supposed to feel insulted by your accusations HH, or what are you after ? - do you feel guilty ?

FxPansion have a pretty nice way to log on to their forums, where you also can D/L the latest revisions of your registered software- i.e. you only have access if you´re a paying customer.

This leaves the presumtive customer outside though - an active support-forum is a pretty good sellingpoint.

Now where´s that block-button....


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#31
opaque slogan
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 14:04:22 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: pgw

FxPansion have a pretty nice way to log on to their forums, where you also can D/L the latest revisions of your registered software- i.e. you only have access if you´re a paying customer.

This leaves the presumtive customer outside though - an active support-forum is a pretty good sellingpoint.



I've often wondered why that isn't the case here.
post edited by opaque slogan - 2006/11/06 14:23:56

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#32
kilgoretrout
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 14:12:30 (permalink)
I think forums should be open for anyone. Otherwise, how can someone make an informed decision as to whether they want to own the software later. I do believe there could be a fair number of cracked copies represented by some forum members, based on the questions they ask. Occasionally, something is so basic and so well covered in any iteration of a manual that you have to wonder where this person's software came from. They are relatively obvious versus just noobies. Then again, maybe I am wrong.

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#33
tonester
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 14:12:43 (permalink)
i can't afford a Ferrari. doesn't mean i'm going to go out and steal one.

nor can i afford Waves' Diamond Bundle. same thing.



Tony
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#34
Stringrazor1
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 14:25:19 (permalink)
just a few points, all IMHO of course (and yes, I'm a long time paying Cakewalk customer):


  • Warez is mostly used by people who would not buy the s/w anyway.

  • S/W companies often get paying customers through the use of warez that they would not have gotten by virtue of their demo alone. So, going through extraordinary lengths to prevent cracking (which is mostly useless anyway) is probably counter-productive to the business (it's expensive, it penalizes paying customers, most/all schemes are broken quickly, it precludes getting paying customers via warez "demo").

  • I find the attitude that seems to prevade this forum that everyone who wants to be is automatically a company-deputized software auditor, disturbing.

#35
xackley
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 14:39:45 (permalink)
deputized software

Well I think everyone who has Sonar, and didn't bother to buy a semi-decent Pro-Sumer recording audio interface must be on crack.

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#36
ottonis
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 14:41:45 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: HammerHead


do you download from bittorrent ?

usenet ?

warez sites ?


only you know the answer.


certain to be an overwhelming YES from this crowd.


No I don't. In my early days (appr. 10 years ago) I used to download a cracked version to try it out. Now, that I earn my own money, my mind has completely changed: First of all, I only buy software. Second, since many software is pretty darn expensive, I think very very long which software I really need and if it will really serve my purposes and skills. Then I read tons of reviews and ask everyone I know (forums, friends) about theor experience with that particular software. If I have a craving for the latest and sexiest reverb or anything else, I say to myself: wait a month or two, there will be a successeor that is even better.
In sum, since I spend my hard-earned money on software, I have became extremely picky what to buy and what not. And this is a good thing by itself, because by that I don't flood my DAW with tons of redundand soft-synths and other crap I don't exactely need.

best regards

david
#37
ottonis
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 14:46:23 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: pgw

ORIGINAL: HammerHead
do you download from bittorrent ?
usenet ?
warez sites ?
only you know the answer.
certain to be an overwhelming YES from this crowd.


Are we supposed to feel insulted by your accusations HH, or what are you after ? - do you feel guilty ?

FxPansion have a pretty nice way to log on to their forums, where you also can D/L the latest revisions of your registered software- i.e. you only have access if you´re a paying customer.

This leaves the presumtive customer outside though - an active support-forum is a pretty good sellingpoint.

Now where´s that block-button....




I don't think that is wise to block people who are not registered customersof a software. I can tell you from myself that BEFORE I go to by any software I want to inform and educate myself as good as possible to learn if this particular software is good / stable / will run on my particular hardware / is compatible with my DSP etc etc etc. The only way to find this out is to join an appropriate forum and read, read, read, and ask.


best regards

david
#38
D.Triny
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 14:52:32 (permalink)
imo piracy will never be contained...as a result taxes will rise. Digital goods *will* eventually be paid for, and the Piratic Apologists are going to ensure that this effected via some sort of taxation. Gracias!!


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#39
bandasound
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 14:56:04 (permalink)
sounds like by the avatar your probably dablin in illegal software yourself mattie.

you so funny- you butt pirate.

hmm....True R&B is like deep fried chicken, greens, and buttered corn bread...
#40
Junski
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 15:16:23 (permalink)
ORIGINAL: corrupted


ORIGINAL: tecton

How is Bittorrent warez????


It's widely used to download warez... that's all.


Was it bit-torrent that has this 'seed' functionality --> if not well configured, you may become spreader (pirate) w/o your knowledge (well, if you're downloading warez/illegal material by your self).

Junski


#41
themidiroom
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 15:36:12 (permalink)
I only steal from Microsoft

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#42
Mick
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 15:43:15 (permalink)
I disagree - I haven't read the terms of service agreement very closely but I don't think it disallows asking people if they use pirated software, as this thread does. Just judging by the bit you quoted here, I don't think this thread violates the agreement - I don't think this thread gives info about any site that distributes illegal software, or seeks help in circumventing copyright laws. It was merely a guy asking if people pirate software.

ORIGINAL: Ogis

This thread is against Cakewalk Forums Terms of Service Agreement.


Piracy and Warez
Cakewalk has a very strict policy against piracy and the illegal use of copyrighted material. Linking or giving information about any site that distributes illegal software, seeking help in circumventing copyright laws, possessing or distributing illegal copyrighted material, or encouraging software or media piracy are all grounds for account termination. This goes for all copyrighted material, including but not limited to software, music, videos and games.


#43
stratcat33511
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 15:59:46 (permalink)
NO
how about a Robin Hood ? !

Flame On !!!
#44
AndyW
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RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 16:09:10 (permalink)

ORIGINAL: Stringrazor1


  • I find the attitude that seems to prevade this forum that everyone who wants to be is automatically a company-deputized software auditor, disturbing.




  • It's called "ethics". Try 'em, you might like 'em.

    I find it disturbing that people cannot see the clear moral equivalency of stealing a phyisical product and stealing IP as kilgoretrout so succintly put it.

    Best,

    AndyW

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    #45
    AndyW
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 16:11:45 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: ottonis


    I don't think that is wise to block people who are not registered customersof a software. I can tell you from myself that BEFORE I go to by any software I want to inform and educate myself as good as possible to learn if this particular software is good / stable / will run on my particular hardware / is compatible with my DSP etc etc etc. The only way to find this out is to join an appropriate forum and read, read, read, and ask.


    best regards

    david



    The idea has been floated here before that we have two levels of forums...one open to all and one for registered users. Not sure how it would affect the dynamics of this online community and not sure it is even a workable idea...but I think it should be explored as an option.

    Best,

    AndyW

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    #46
    UnderTow
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 16:19:03 (permalink)
    I received an illegal copy of Cakewalk 7 many years ago and got interested. I bought Pro Audio 8 when it came out and have been paying ever since. So in a sense, warez got me into Cakewalk products.

    I've demoed cracked copies in the past. Mainly of stuff that didn't have good demos. These days I have enough tools so anything new is a luxary. If there is no good demo provided by a company, their product doesn't even come into consideration. I couldn't be bothered testing cracked versions to see if the software might be usefull to me or not although I don't have any moral qualms with just testing stuff this way.

    UnderTow
    #47
    CoteRotie
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 16:25:10 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: kilgoretrout

    To me, downloading a song or software EVEN FROM SOMETHING LIKE NAPSTER IS (Used to be?) is absolutely the same as walking into Best Buy and shoving things into your pocket.


    Hey, Kilgore,

    I absolutely agree. Someone else posted that downloading an unpaid for song via Napster is copyright infringement, not theft. Regardless of the legal technicalities, morally it's theft. Copyright infringement to me means you nicked someone else's bass line (possibly unintentionally) for your song or borrowed too long a passage from someone else's book in your writing. Or something along those lines.

    Regards,

    John

    #48
    HansDampf
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 16:59:37 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: AndyW

    It's called "ethics". Try 'em, you might like 'em.

    I find it disturbing that people cannot see the clear moral equivalency of stealing a phyisical product and stealing IP as kilgoretrout so succintly put it.


    Well, there is a fine difference and it is about getting old to mention it
    It is just this: If you steal my car, I don`t have it anymore. If you illegally download a song, it is not taken away from someone. So there is no physical loss, but the financial reward for the creative work and marketing is denied. And that is illegal and unethical, but in fact not in the same way as stealing a physical product. The real challenge for all software companies is to provide a product that has an added value by legally "buying" it. Because the way that digital products can be "stolen" nowadays is not just a question of ethics, it also shows the lack of appropriateness of trying to use the old-fashioned market-strategies to make money out of these products. This is taken to the extreme by companies like RedHat: You can download their software for free, but support and immediate/convenient updates are expensive. This strategy may not be transferable 1:1 on a software like SONAR, but it may show the way. It is not about selling a product, it is about gaining customer loyality.
    #49
    corrupted
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 17:12:14 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: HansDampf


    ORIGINAL: AndyW

    It's called "ethics". Try 'em, you might like 'em.

    I find it disturbing that people cannot see the clear moral equivalency of stealing a phyisical product and stealing IP as kilgoretrout so succintly put it.


    Well, there is a fine difference and it is about getting old to mention it
    It is just this: If you steal my car, I don`t have it anymore. If you illegally download a song, it is not taken away from someone. So there is no physical loss, but the financial reward for the creative work and marketing is denied. And that is illegal and unethical, but in fact not in the same way as stealing a physical product. The real challenge for all software companies is to provide a product that has an added value by legally "buying" it. Because the way that digital products can be "stolen" nowadays is not just a question of ethics, it also shows the lack of appropriateness of trying to use the old-fashioned market-strategies to make money out of these products. This is taken to the extreme by companies like RedHat: You can download their software for free, but support and immediate/convenient updates are expensive. This strategy may not be transferable 1:1 on a software like SONAR, but it may show the way. It is not about selling a product, it is about gaining customer loyality.

    Yup, I agree...
    I wish I had more to say, but I agree.
    #50
    AT
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 17:29:44 (permalink)
    Yes, your paranoia is right - you are the only one that pays for the software, everybody else gets it for free!

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    #51
    lavoll
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 17:58:59 (permalink)
    my studio is warez (and dongle) free.
    the only warez i've downloaded is porn.

    i enjoy supporting people that make excellent software, i want them to keep doig just that :)
    #52
    calaverasgrandes
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 18:06:48 (permalink)
    A long time ago I used cracked software. I also had many issues with virii, unstable DAWs etc. Since then I buy my software which is a 3 fold benfit.

    A) because I am a registered owner of the software I am entitled to patches, and customer support! I also get a nifty manual in most cases!

    B) Non-cracked versions tend to be more stable. My programmer buddy disputes this, he says all you need to do is change one section of code to crack most programs. My experience teaches me otherwise.

    C) Most warez and p2p sites/networks are also used as infiltration points to your computer. So besides downloading software of dubious safety, a hacker could be burrowing into your PC while you are doing it. Think about it. P2P software is an ideal environment for hackers. Its a program that has write and usually erase access to your disks. Many people will que up several files to download and leave the machine on all day/night. This gives the assailant unfettered access to your goodies, and plenty of time to work in!

    These are just my personal benefits. I also make it a point to display the retail boxes of my software on a shelf in my little studio. If any body asks I point out that I use only purchased software, so there are no intellectual property issues regarding what software their tunes are produced on. Everything is licensed!

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    #53
    Ognis
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 18:14:32 (permalink)
    ORIGINAL: Mick

    I disagree - I haven't read the terms of service agreement very closely but I don't think it disallows asking people if they use pirated software, as this thread does. Just judging by the bit you quoted here, I don't think this thread violates the agreement - I don't think this thread gives info about any site that distributes illegal software, or seeks help in circumventing copyright laws. It was merely a guy asking if people pirate software.

    ORIGINAL: Ogis

    This thread is against Cakewalk Forums Terms of Service Agreement.


    Piracy and Warez
    Cakewalk has a very strict policy against piracy and the illegal use of copyrighted material. Linking or giving information about any site that distributes illegal software, seeking help in circumventing copyright laws, possessing or distributing illegal copyrighted material, or encouraging software or media piracy are all grounds for account termination. This goes for all copyrighted material, including but not limited to software, music, videos and games.






    That may be true. But all the postings here about the "method" of finding it, seems to come really close. I was just pointing that out, don't want anyone getting into any trouble. All I know is, that if someone answers "yes" to this post, I hope that they are using an elite proxy, because if I was cake, I'd be logging this thread.
    post edited by Ogis - 2006/11/06 18:31:58
    #54
    Ognis
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 18:25:16 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: AndyW


    ORIGINAL: ottonis


    I don't think that is wise to block people who are not registered customersof a software. I can tell you from myself that BEFORE I go to by any software I want to inform and educate myself as good as possible to learn if this particular software is good / stable / will run on my particular hardware / is compatible with my DSP etc etc etc. The only way to find this out is to join an appropriate forum and read, read, read, and ask.


    best regards

    david



    The idea has been floated here before that we have two levels of forums...one open to all and one for registered users. Not sure how it would affect the dynamics of this online community and not sure it is even a workable idea...but I think it should be explored as an option.



    Or, they could do it like the Native Instrument forums, and if you register with your serial, or whatever / however, it says "Product Owner" under your name, if you dont, it just says "Registered User".. Not sure what diff it would make though.
    #55
    JTwin
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 18:39:59 (permalink)
    I sold crack and kicked my dog. Is that close enough?
    #56
    kellyrmartin
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 18:52:31 (permalink)
    I am curious. Do you believe that attending your church gives you stronger moral convictions than someone who does not?

    ORIGINAL: sada10

    Before I started getting heavily involved in church, I used a couple of pirated software programs before. What really showed me how wrong intellectual theft is, I had an incident where our church several years ago was recording it's first cd; the issue came up of how to protect the cd from being copied illegally- because I had some experience in the industry in the past, the choir director looked to me to for some advice. Then I remembered getting the thought of how upset I would be if someone copied the cd instead of purchasing it, basically stealing from the church. Then I got the thought that that is what I did evertime I bought a bootleg video, cd, software, etc. I felt like crap-have not bought anything bootleg since then. I think that it is harder for (descent people with morales, not just criminals who don't give a crap anyway) some people to see the morale wrong in intellectual theft, or they hide behind the fact that the software provider/company has deep pockets and there is a belief that the company/artist/creator can afford the loss. Theft is theft, regardless though! And stealing is really all that it is-point blank!

    #57
    Jaybee
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 18:58:57 (permalink)

    ORIGINAL: CoteRotie


    ORIGINAL: kilgoretrout

    To me, downloading a song or software EVEN FROM SOMETHING LIKE NAPSTER IS (Used to be?) is absolutely the same as walking into Best Buy and shoving things into your pocket.


    Hey, Kilgore,

    I absolutely agree. Someone else posted that downloading an unpaid for song via Napster is copyright infringement, not theft. Regardless of the legal technicalities, morally it's theft. Copyright infringement to me means you nicked someone else's bass line (possibly unintentionally) for your song or borrowed too long a passage from someone else's book in your writing. Or something along those lines.

    Regards,

    John




    Just to clear up this part of the argument, Napster is now a "pay" site and they charge for legal downloads of their music catalog, similar to iTunes. It is no longer a file sharing service which it was when it first started up.

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    #58
    Stringrazor1
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 19:04:23 (permalink)
    I'm not defending piracy but the dog-pack mentality that seems to form everytime someone asks a question about something that's in the manual is certainly not driven by ethics.

    I perfer to give people the benefit of the doubt and just be a customer and let Cakewalk run their own business. "Try it, you'll like it."

    ORIGINAL: AndyW


    ORIGINAL: Stringrazor1


  • I find the attitude that seems to prevade this forum that everyone who wants to be is automatically a company-deputized software auditor, disturbing.




  • It's called "ethics". Try 'em, you might like 'em.

    I find it disturbing that people cannot see the clear moral equivalency of stealing a phyisical product and stealing IP as kilgoretrout so succintly put it.

    #59
    jb
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    RE: are you a software thief ? 2006/11/06 19:29:04 (permalink)
    Nice thread man,
    post edited by jb - 2006/11/06 23:02:51

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    #60
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