audio echo trouble

Hi, I'm new to this forum though I have used Cakewalk for many years. I've been lazy learning new stuff after the MIDI period so I have for example never used send/return functions or buses. I used SONAR more like a mixer putting in MIDI and Audio tracks with some effecs on the audio parts. Now I will try to get into all new stuff, upgrading from SONAR 5 to X1 PE. I also got a new sound card, the Saffire 6 USB (old one was SB Audigy).
 
I don't know if this is a good way of setting up MIDI and audio, but this is how I had it set up for the last decade at least:
 
audio: recorded directly in the input of the saffire box
MIDI: playing from a FATAR master keyboard to MIDI IN in the Saffire, and MIDI out to the rack synth (JV-2080).
 
The sound source from the Saffire and synth then goes to a mixer, balancing the instruments and sending the mix out in a pair of active speakers. The KORG mixer have a hard drive so I can record it and dump it to a computer very easy. I think I get pretty good results this way, one downside is that the sound from JV-2080 is with limited effects.
 
To the point: When I plug in whatever audio device (bass, violin or mic) to the Saffire input I hear a huge delay (300 ms aprox.) I even hear the delay when I listen thru ear phones plugged to the Saffire. But when I put "Input echo: on" in Sonar for the audio track I hear the sound coming directly. Unfortunately the delay is there too in the background, making it very disturbing when recording. The ASIO latency is fine I think, variating between 60-250 samples depending on how much effects I use. When I play on the keyboard there is no latency at all, testing both the rack synth and various VST plugins. The only way I have found to get rid of the delay is to turn the input/playback mixer knob on the saffire to input only. But then I don't hear the previously recorded tracks either so it's no help...
 
A friend told me I shouldnt hear anything at all if the Input echo is off. Well, I do, and I hear it very late. =/
 
/Leizer

My brain melted trying to read it lol

Leizer


Whoa... how do I change rows? Thats unreadable!

Dump firefox for the forums and use Chrome or IE.


Mike

dorism


If you have direct monitoring on via the saffire - then you don't need to use input echo unless you want to hear any effects applied in reatlime. I find its better to use one or the other - if you use echo input then make sure your latency is as low is possible

 
Yes, I have direct monitoring on if I understand you correctly (the monitor knob is on 100%). But... it's unusable because when I have ASIO latency set to around 13 ms I hear 300 ms delay.
 
If I can find a way in Windows to only hear the audio input signal when input echo is on I think it can solve the problem.
 
And I forgot to say earlier that when I record the delayed signal in SONAR and listen to the recording it is perfectly in time.
 
/Leizer

dorism


OK - first thing is - decide what is more important for you - low latency or hearing the audio with its effects. If it is low latency then you should turn off echo input and just hear the 'dry' sound. If you want to hear the sound with the effects then turn down input monitoring level to 0. If you try and do both at the same time you will get a weird phasing effect as the 2 out of phase signals interact with each other. Post back once you've decided which one you want to go with an we'll take it from there...
 
 
Ok, low latency is clearly most important for me when recording. Ive noticed now that the bass sound in both way (knob 100% input or 100% playback) without the input echo on. The difference when input echo is on is that the direct sound is hearable in playback. Hmm I feel I explain bad in english....
 
knob at 100% input: Only the direct live sound is there. No pre-recorded audio tracks can be heard.
 
knob at 100% playback: Only the megadelay is heard when input echo in sonar is off. When its on the direct sound blends with the delayed.
 
So if I decide to record with the knob at 100% input which would be preferable, the next step is to get the pre-recorded material to be heard in that mode. I'm wondering if I can use both 1/2 and 3/4 outputs somehow (maybe send the prerecordings to 3/4) and mix them together in the KORG mixer. To test that I need another RCA cable.
 
Thx for your help so far!
 
/Leizer

After weeks with this problem and thinking about that you really shouldn’t hear anything from audio input in “playback” mode, I searched for something to unclick in the Control Panel > Sound. I unclicked “listen to this unit” in line input and the delay dissappeared! 
 
I had the feeling it would be very easy to solve lol

Thanks for the help Dorism!


Best regards
Leizer