audio engine problem SOLVED!

Hey all,
 
About 1 in 5 times, when I open any project, the audio tracks have a LOT of noise in them.  The work around is to turn the audio engine off and on a few times with the switch in the transport module, and presto, crystal clear again.  Any ideas?  I would like to perform these songs and use Sonar to play the accompaniment, but I can't rely on the audio engine to be clear with out testing it.
 
Aslo, I want to buy about 30 songs and what online outlet do you like best?
 
Your the best, Ron
 
 
 

Does this happen after a reboot more often than simply opening another project in the same session? If so, I would make sure that you either:
 
1) Wait until your computer's auto-updaters have run before starting a session, or
 
2) Disable all auto-updaters, including AV and Windows Updates. You can always update manually when you aren't recording.
 
Regards
 

Good point, I don't wait until the computor has run it's updates, and that seems more like the problem since the audio is fine with plugs running, so why the problem sometimes.  I also like to open 9 projects and shrink them into a list and highlight the first one to play along with it.  The thought is that  I will perform out with all the great effect in place.  But, I can be practicing for 45 minutes and have this happen again.
 

Okay, I have a send on the master bus that goes to a bus I use for headsets and the head set bus goes to maudio sound card analog out 3/4.  When I turned off the send to the head set bus it clears up the noise.  Thinking I could eliminate the head set bus on each project I went to the project and in came the noise even with head set bus deleted and head sets going directly to maudio output 3/4, output heads ate plugged into.  
 
By the way if I turn the echo off the mic channel or the guitar channel the noise goes away.  I just can't figure out why it is only an intermittent anomaly.  More times than not the set up I am using works fine!
 
The problem does seem to centered around the live mic channel or live guitar channel.  I have turned off all sends and plugs with and the problem is still there, with the exception of when I turned off the send from the master bus to the head set bus, and that cleared up noise.
 
As I mentioned before, turning off the audio engine clears the problem anytime and I can play the project over and over while it is still open with no problem at all, no matter how long I practice on that project, hours at a time and no problem.

Thanks for the replies! 
     The projects have 15 to 25 tracks, with a sure mic connected directly to the LCR input jack on the MAudio 1010LT and the Ibenez acoustic with an add on hole pick up, (LR Biagio) I think it says on it, also connected directly to the 1010LT via an input jack to 1010LT.  A typical project may have 4 instances of Cakewalk TTS-1.  I only use the first 4 timbral channels on each TTS-1, set the TTS-1 so that Timbral 1 goes to output 1, and set an audio track so that it picks it up in midi channel 1.  TTS-1 timbral 2 is set to output 2 and is picked up in another separate audio track on midi channel 2 and so forth.  I then end up with say 12 separate midi tracks, each with a separate audio tracks and a two live audio tracks for the mic which both use the same input from 1010LT LCR jack, and another audio track for the guitar pick up through 1010LT on a separate input.
     I may run the kick on one track, the snare on another track, hi hat on another, and send the drums to the same bus. The bus goes to the master bus and the master to 1010LT analog output 1/2.  Then instruments such as piano, banjo, etc. ore set the same way and sent to one bus called instruments, to master and out.
I use sonitus equalizer plug in a few tracks and Breverb in one bus with sends from a couple of tracks to it.    
     Now there are two variables.  I did not have this problem before the upgrade to Sonar X2, and, I am not sure when I got the pick up for the guitar, but it may have been around the same time as the upgrade to X2.
     I open each of the nine projects at the same time, shrink them down and highlight the first one, play along with it, then the second, play along with it, and so on.  Then highlight one and the noise is not present at first and begins when I play the project.  I can turn off and on the audio engine and the noise goes away, or, I can turn off the input echo on the live mic audio track or guitar live pick up track and the noise goes away.
     This can happen on any of the projects, and all of the projects work fine but this noise appears at will it seems, tonight about once in 10 projects openings.  Turning off the plugs or sends does not stop the noise.
     Tonight the computor ran for a couple of hours before I tried this again, so intial set up processes are not the culprit. 
 
 
 
 
 
 

OK,
     The audio interface is M-Audio Delta 1010LT, playback timing master is M-Audio Delta ASIO Out 1/2, record timimg master is M-Audio ASIO Analog In 1, Audio Driver Bit Depth is 24, Dim solo gain is 12db, sampling rate is 48000, buffers in playback queue 2, buffer size 5.3msec 256 samles, ASIO Reported latencies: input 6.2 msec 299 samples, output 5.9 msec 284 samples, total round up 12.1msec. 583 samples, Driver mode, ASIO, Dithering triangular, set to use mulitiprocessing Engine, playback I/O Buffer size 128, Record Buffer Size 128, set to use ASIO reported Latency 583, under " File / Audio Data" Record Bit Depth 32 and Render Bit Depth 32, Import Bit Depth Origional.
     Do not have Wi Fi, I turned off Norton Anti Virus and let the computer run for an hour, then opened X2 and nine projects each minimized so they could be activated and deactivated one at a time.  After 32nd activation, the noise. 
     Pressing "E" did eliminate the noise, and when pressed again the effects come on clean.  So does turning off the audio engine or turning off the input echo on the live guitar or mic channels.  If pressing "E" on and off before performing each project would result in a clean playback I could us that as a handier work around.  
 
Thanks again for the suggestions and ideas.   Ron

Bob,
 
     Thanks for the input, still getting the noise, but the "E" work around was useful until I figure what I am doing wrong.  I must play the project for a split second, hit "E" twice, and I get a clean start each time.  I did change the Playback and Record I/O Buffer Sizes to 512 k.  Funny how this anomaly only happens once in while and not on any particular project.  I still suspect that something is running in the background such as Quick Time Upgrade (which seems to always want to upgrade again) or something.
 
Ron 

Let me try again - I believe your ASIO Buffer Size may benefit from being set to 128.
 
Your Total Roundtrip Latency seems a little high, and setting the ASIO Buffer Size to 128 will lower that latency.
 
FURTHER, hitting 'E' was only meant to determine if there is an issue with one or more of your plugins, I did NOT mean for it to be considered a 'fix'.
 
It seems to me like there indeed may be one or more plugins that cause latency to the point of dropping out - that some of your loaded plugins are meant for mixing or mastering, and NOT for recording.
 
Bob Bone
 

Bit depth of 16 did not fix it.
 
I would like to add this quick edit to this post, and that is I have disabled Norton Anti Virus and turned off Windows Update to identify the culprit here, and I still get the noise, which does NOT stop the project as does a drop out, but sounds like loud static when I sing or midi tracks play until it is cleared, which can be done when the audio engine is stopped and restarted, or by pressing "E", or by turning off the input echo on the live guitar audio track or the live vocal audio track.  This does not happen to a "problem" project, but is random event that can occur in ANY project on a random basis, and starts as soon as the project is played.  To disable plugs one at a time until all are disabled does NOT stop the noise.
 

     Preferences / ASIO Panel button does not bring up an interface.  Also buffers in queue and buffer size are in gray and can not be selected, but I can select the sampling rate and set that for 44,100.  I reloaded the driver for M-Audio Delta 1010LT and selected a task bar icon to bring up the M-Audio interface, then with the the ASIO/WDM buffer size set to 128, set the sample rate to 44,100. This results in a roundtrip latency of 7.4 msec 327 samples. Other combinations are over 14  or under 4 roundtrip so this set up is as close as I can get it, unless you are aware of another way to adjust it.         
     With Windows Update  disabled, Norton Anti Vitus disabled I get the noise.  It does not always occur on the same project, but does seem to occur more often in one that has 29 tracks.  By the way, these suggestions are at least clearing up my projects over all outside noise levels very nicely, thank you for that!  
     Breverb 2 is natively supported for 32 bit as well as 64 bit according to Overlouds' web site and is the only "new" plug is use. My next plan is delete every instance of Breverb 2 form the nine projects and see if that fixes it. 
 
Ron 

Yay!
 
Glad you are all sorted out now.
 
You have the extra bonus of having your specs in your signature now too, so if something else comes up as an issue - we can more quickly help diagnose it.  :)
 
Great news, indeed!
 
Bob Bone
 

@rocadani - I was thinking about how you are using Sonar, and IF I understood you correctly, I think there are a couple of different ways you might be able to have a more stable platform for your live performances.
 
It sounded like you open up a bunch of projects, then switch between them while playing along in a live performance over the essentially 'backing tracks'.
 
You are putting a bunch of strain on your computer to do this, as Sonar has to process any soft synths and effects, as evidenced by your dropout issues from having to process through that Boost 11 effect.
 
I think there are a couple of ways to play along live with these backing tracks, and suggest you consider them as viable options.
 
1.  Freeze your tracks and play along to the frozen tracks.  This will create audio tracks with the effects pre-processed, so Sonar won't have to run each audio track through your effects and any soft synths each time you play live.  This would save TONS of load on your CPU.
 
2.  Export each project to song files (MP3 or WAV), then create one or more new projects where you import the song files as either a single audio track per project, or load a bunch of song files into a bunch of audio tracks (and solo the desired audio track to play along with each).  This would be SUPER easy for your CPU and Sonar to process, as instead of a bunch of heavy-duty projects, you would just have one simple audio track playing at a time, which doesn't take much effort at all for Sonar or for your CPU.
 
I think of the 2 above options, I would use option 2 over option 1, as it would be a lot 'cleaner' for live purposes, and would load up each song file for a 'set' into 1 combined project, with each imported song file in its own stereo audio track.  Then, I would hit the solo button for the song I intended to play, and only that audio track would play, with me playing along with it.  To play the next song, just solo the next audio track.
 
In fact, using the option 2 approach, I could load up a whole bunch of song files into a single project, then I could solo ANY of the audio tracks, which would allow me to play the songs in whatever order I thought would be best for a particular set and vibe for that moment in the performance.
 
I hope any of the above is helpful - it is all predicated on you going through the loading of your 9 projects as being for purposes of playing sets of songs as backing tracks and you playing along live with them for performances.
 
Bob Bone
 
 

Yes,
     I do want to play acoustic guitar and sing along with midi backing tracks and one pre-recorded vocal back up audio track.  Years ago I played drums in a band, (as in over 15 years ago).  That came to an end with raising family and 50 hours a week job.  Been tinkering a liitle at a time with Cakewalk software for 10 years, and now have 9 complete projects with all midi instruments except an acoustic guitar and my vocals, (8 covers and 1 origional.)
      I posted my one and only origional years ago on Sound Click with EVERY instrument created in midi tracks and it got a very nice reception in the song forum, and made 4th place in Sound Clicks acoustic catagory. I might add that people on the Cakewalks Songclick Forum asked for a live guitar version, that gave me inspriation to re-learn guitar, which I did not play in the band.
     I think I have finally got a good enough grasp of the software to put together another 30-40 cover songs and play out, hopefully in maybe one year.  I must say that this Software has provided thousands of hours of enjoyment, and the thrill was the long trip to learn how to use it as well as performing and creating in from of the DAW.
     I did not think of freezing the tracks, a good idea, or just mixing down the midi and keeping the individual project settings for vocal purposes, a great idea.  I don't think I want to use the same settings for the vocal and guitar for each project though, so I won't do it that way.
     Over the years I have been stumped a time or two in learning how to use the software, and turned to this forum for advice.  Cakewalks user forums have NEVER failed to either solve or give me ideas to solve my little problems, as I am really just a rank novice compared with the real sound engineers and professional musicians who inhabit this space.
     We are all lucky to be a part of this.  Thanks again everyone!!
 
Ron Nickens, rank amature but getting better. 

Well, I was suggesting you keep your projects intact, but export the audio, with whatever plugin settings you want for each one.
 
When you then import them into tracks into a new project, they will already have whatever effects present, because of them being included when you exported the the audio.
 
Exporting your audio mixes it all down with your effects, so each track will have its own unique plugin sounds.
 
Bob Bone