Helpful Replybasic stereo question

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gswitz
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2013/08/05 18:50:00 (permalink)

basic stereo question

When I turn my stereo off, I get pops in the speakers.
My stuff is connected like this...
Computer > RME (interface) > Sub (with crossover) > Power Amp > Speakers
 
I turn on in this order...
Computer
RME
Sub
Power Amp
 
I turn off in the reverse order
Power Amp (small pop)
Sub (pop in the sub and the speakers (even though I turned off the amp as much as 30 seconds earlier)
RME (no pops)
Computer
 
I have also noticed that when my wife is busy flipping light switches in the house (she sometimes uses Clorox wipes on the phones, remotes and light switches), I can hear slight pops in my speakers.
 
Should I care about these slight pops? The have never been recorded to my knowledge. I've never been listening back to a tape and been able to isolate a pop that might have been from a light switch, so I'm guessing the RME is magically immune.
 
I just attempted to record the pop and failed. I started a recording and flipped the light switch and there was 0 identifyable pop in the wave form even though the sound came through the speakers. I tried with and without my external DBX compressor and in neither case was I able to record the pop.
 
My questions:
1. Do I worry about these regular pops hurting my speakers?
 a. I'm not prepared to leave the power on to avoid the pops, and as demonstrated, there would be pops through the speakers from normal household activity anyway.
2. Do I worry about my power supply to my equipment?
 
 
 Sorry if this post should have been in hardware. I don't know how to move it now that I've submitted it.
 

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
#1
SuperG
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/05 19:27:20 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2013/08/06 07:09:35
The pops are coming in from the pre-amplifier circuit of the amplifier, most likely. There's not a lot you can do about it short of disconnecting the speaker from the amp before turning off the amp. Some stereos, at least in the past, had speaker on/off switches, especially if they supported multiple speaker sets.

laudem Deo
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 05:40:30 (permalink)
I turn off in the reverse order
Power Amp (small pop)
Sub (pop in the sub and the speakers (even though I turned off the amp as much as 30 seconds earlier)
RME (no pops)
Computer

 
Turn your sub off before killing the power to the amp

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gswitz
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 06:09:21 (permalink)
The sub is powered and has a crossover. Killing the sub first sends a pretty large jolt through the two speakers.

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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ston
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 06:20:25 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2013/08/06 06:56:36
What happens if you turn down your amp's volume control before turning it off?  That's what I always do on my hi-fi amp and never get any pops.
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FCCfirstclass
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 06:31:57 (permalink)
If any of the components are grounded, try a ground lift.  That may help.  However, my monitor speakers will do a few pops, so I always switch over to my Speakerlab 4's when turning off the system.  No pops between the 4's and my Carver M-1.5 T amp.  And as Ston said, always turn down the volume before turning off the power.

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And away we go!
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 06:32:57 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2013/08/06 06:55:44
gswitz
The sub is powered and has a crossover. Killing the sub first sends a pretty large jolt through the two speakers.


The point is you should strive to kill the power to ALL of your speakers before you kill anything else.
Turning the amp down is a perfectly reasonable suggestion by ston.

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gswitz
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 06:55:35 (permalink)
Great! Thanks!
 
I used to have a pre-amp before the amp itself, but at one point I was making a recording and playing the mix through the speakers as they performed. One of the tracks clipped badly when the singer was singing and that was the end of the pre-amp. I guess it melted I don't know. I tried fixing it with some help from my electronics savvy brother and a great friend, but ...
 
So I no longer have a volume nob for the speakers. There is a volume nob on the RME and a volume nob on the Sub (which I rarely twist). Turning down the volume on the RME had no impact that I could hear (I just tried it).
 
The best help is to leave the power amp for the speakers off for a long while before turning off the sub, but that's too long to wait after hearing the dinner bell.
 
I think I'll just keep living with the pops. It would be nice to stop them, but I'm guessing it'll cost me $100 at least. For that matter, turning off the sub pops the sub no matter what. I've been living with it a long time. I just thought I'd ask.
 

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 07:01:33 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2013/08/06 07:08:30
 
It's a good question.
 
I've never worried about those power down pops hurting the speakers.
 
If you are going to worry about pops you should probably worry about what the snare drum is doing to them too.
 
The most compelling reason to worry about pops is that it may appear unprofessional to cause them. I try to work with people that trust me and so I don't worry much about that either.
 
I wish I knew why some gears does it. I imagine the designers know exactly why... and if they thought it was a big problem (like something that would cause breakage and returns) they probably wouldn't make the compromise.
 
 
best regards,
mike
 


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gswitz
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 07:09:02 (permalink)
Thanks, Mike. I appreciate someone at your level giving the nod to the question itself. :-)

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
I make some videos. This one shows how to do a physical loopback on the RME UCX to get many more equalizer nodes.
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bitflipper
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 10:46:17 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby gswitz 2013/08/06 18:09:30
A well-designed amplifier or powered speakers will not pop when powered off. Internal safeguards will mute the power amp a few milliseconds prior to shutdown. You're doing it right by shutting down everything in reverse order of the signal chain.
 
As to whether such pops can damage speakers, the answer is yes - but usually only at very high power. Damage is not likely for hi-fi systems or active studio monitors. Just don't try it at a 50,000-watt concert venue.


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brconflict
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 20:06:07 (permalink)
I own some earlier SWR bass gear (pre-Fender), Bass-350, Bass-750, Super-Redhead, and WorkingManSeries-700. The latter has what bitflipper suggests, where it will Mute the signal prior to releasing the pops. Conversely, and SWR claims this is to remove circuitry to purify the signal better, on the Bass-750,350 or Super Redhead, these would pop sometimes when powering up or down since they never employed that type of circuit. But they do recommend disconnecting the speaker cable before turning the amp on. This could be a situation similar to yours where the signal is somehow still active after power has been disconnected. 
 
To equal bitflipper here, my Pass-350 mastering amp has some protection built in to is so that it will not destroy speakers, because it otherwise surely could (and has before) blown tweeters in my older mains from some dynamic material at high volume. I recommend powering down your mains amp before the sub, then the sub, then everything else.

Brian
 
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The Maillard Reaction
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 21:42:00 (permalink)
The nice thing about a great amp is that will only fry speakers that truly aren't able to handle it's power output.
 
If you're lucky the amp will have protection for the amp should you fry a speaker and end up with a short instead of an open.
 
Frying tweeters is a right of passage. You can use the opportunity to learn how to use a crossover, either passive or active with a bi-amp strategy. I would imagine that most folks who have been there have done that. I think that I've fried more stuff with under powered amps than I have with the good stuff.
 
best regards,
mike


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Dude Ivey
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 21:56:53 (permalink)
I have a Sub and two monitors and a separate crossover hooked to a Monster Power Pro 3500. When i power on the system the crossover comes on first and then all speakers come on a few seconds later. It powers down in reverse. There is no noise or pops what so ever. I dont like pops in anything, Guitar rig, audio system in my truck etc. So i totally understand the question!

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Jeff Evans
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Re: basic stereo question 2013/08/06 22:46:37 (permalink)
Any noises or pops you may be hearing after you have turned your power amp off are almost certainly due the the residual energy that has been stored in the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply. Although this energy may be still there for a little while, it should not be causing your speakers any harm as such. It usually dissipates fast because the capacitors are not being recharged.
 
What are the woofers doing when these pops occur? If they are not moving at all or very much then you really don't have anything to worry about. Any talk about frying speakers more than likely won't be an issue here.
 
It is things that can cause serious turn on thumps you have to be careful of. I had an older Kurzweil K2000 rack synth that sent out the most horrific of signals on turn on. Enough to move an active monitor woofer about 3 inches! (I don't have it now and the new Kurzweils are perfectly silent on switch on now)
 
A good rule of thumb is when turning on any gear connected to your system anywhere keep your monitor levels off/down or mute the mixer channels while you do it.
 
And Dave I have done something similar to a 50.000W PA live in front of a big audience and it was not pretty! (but don't we all have to have that happen at least once to us in our lives!)

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