cake wont remember sampling rate

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bassfaceus
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2018/11/06 07:29:39 (permalink)

cake wont remember sampling rate

Hi all ..im running Cake bBL and an RME Fireface UFX..Ive got the Cake audio pref set at 48K for new projects
but it keeps going back to 44K when i initiate a new project..
i have to keep remembering to go to the asio panel of the RME (from within cake)
and set that to 48K..strangely it always remembers to be 24 bit.
If i set the sample rate and save the project it will remember..but if i dont remember to 
do it i can find myself 3hours down the track and everything ive done is 44K...
very frustrating.. any thoughts?  
Thanks 
#1

14 Replies Related Threads

    John
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/06 11:02:11 (permalink)
    What is set on the RME? Also is this an empty project? I would try making my own template that has things as you want them. If you are using the built in template they could be set to 44.1. 

    Best
    John
    #2
    bassfaceus
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/06 12:27:47 (permalink)
    thanks..but  edit/preference says 48k...im confused
    #3
    John
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/06 12:59:40 (permalink)
    If your REM is set to 44.1 Sonar will try to match it. Everything needs to have the same value. I am not saying that is the problem only something to check. 

    Best
    John
    #4
    DeeringAmps
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/06 13:56:54 (permalink)
    You set the new project default here?

    Its working fine on my end, I switched back and forth between 44.1 and 48.
    This was in the office with my Babyface, but its the same driver as the Studio UFX.
    The Babyface was set to 44.1, I changed the prefs to 48, then opened my "new project" template; 48/24.
    That set the Babyface to 48, I changed the prefs to 44.1, then opened "new project" and viola 44.1.
    This is with 2018.7 build 13, haven't updated just yet. I'll re-post if that changes anything...
     
    T

    Tom Deering
    Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page
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    #5
    scook
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/06 14:55:01 (permalink)
    Sample rate is not stored in the project. A project's sample rate is determined one of two ways:
    1. For new projects and projects that do not contain any audio, the sample rate is read from preferences (see image in the message above).
    2. For projects that contain audio, the sample rate is read from one of the audio clips in the project.
    IOW, until there are audio clips in the project, its sample rate will always conform to the current "Sampling Rate" set in preferences. Saving a project does not set the sample rate for future sessions, saving a project with at least one audio clip in a track does.
     
    #6
    DeeringAmps
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/06 15:19:58 (permalink)
    For exactly the reasons Steve described, my 48k template has a 1 sec audio clip of "silence" to lock it at 48.
     
    T

    Tom Deering
    Tascam FW-1884 User Resources Page
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    #7
    Jimbo 88
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/06 16:11:56 (permalink)
    Not sure, but can't other apps like Windows Media Player change the sound card sample rate?  So could jumping between CbB and other media apps cause the issue the OP is having?

    Cakewalk By Bandlab
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    #8
    John
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/06 17:48:58 (permalink)
    Jimbo 88
    Not sure, but can't other apps like Windows Media Player change the sound card sample rate?  So could jumping between CbB and other media apps cause the issue the OP is having?


    I think so. One reason I have the internal sound chip working for things other than my DAWs. Its a simple matter to route a DAW to your good sound card.

    Best
    John
    #9
    Steev
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/06 19:07:53 (permalink)
    DeeringAmps
    You set the new project default here?

    Its working fine on my end, I switched back and forth between 44.1 and 48.
    This was in the office with my Babyface, but its the same driver as the Studio UFX.
    The Babyface was set to 44.1, I changed the prefs to 48, then opened my "new project" template; 48/24.
    That set the Babyface to 48, I changed the prefs to 44.1, then opened "new project" and viola 44.1.
    This is with 2018.7 build 13, haven't updated just yet. I'll re-post if that changes anything...
     
    T


     WOWZER! That's some shockingly crazy high latency report. Is there any reason you need 2048 samples in your buffer? I honestly can't think of any.
    I have my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen 2 set at 24 bit 48 k/Hz and buffer size set to 128, CbB can take anything I throw at it, 8 audio tracks at a time with audio FX running in real-time recording, on top of Additive Drums 2, Rapture Pro or what ever, and stay rock solid with no audio artifacts, and the effective recording latency is 2.7 msec, roundtrip 12.6 msec @ 604 samples.
    Latency drops down to 0.7 msec set to 24/96, but there's no humanly detectable difference in performance or sound quality, so why waste the hard drive space with the extra HUGE project files?
     Do NOT try setting your buffer size to 128 without an 8 core high performance workstation, but I've never had to set up a mid grade Intel i5 computer for anyone and have to set the buffer size to over 512 on any computer built in the past 7 years or so, and NONE ever ran over 20 msec effective recording latency, even with very inexpensive M-Audio audio interfaces.
     Don't nobody be laugh'in at or hat'in on M-Audio just because they're inexpensive.
     
     
     Yes, Windows Media Player will automatically select the format, bit rate, and sample rate that the audio file was recorded at. Windows Media Player runs entirely in Windows drivers.
    It has absolutely nothing to do with the ASIO drivers used for your DAW.
     
    Don't forget to hit the "Apply" button before hitting the "OK" button. This setting only applies to Cakewalk opening a new project.
     
     If the "last" project you opened/ran was recorded @ 44.1 than the DAW will stay there until you open a different project recorded at a different sample rate.
     
     If you're not having problems while recording or mixing, don't worry about it.
     Throughout the years I have recorded and collaborated on many different projects set anywhere from 44.1 k/Hz to 96 k/Hz and SONAR/Cakewalk has always automatically clocked out where it's supposed to be and at the appropriate bitrate.
     
     If you are having problems while recording or mixing because of this, I'd recommend updating or reinstalling your RME driver package before messing around with the DAW.
     Just because you may be running the latest drivers available for your audio interface doesn't mean they haven't somehow been corrupted. 

    Steev on Bandlab.com
     
    Custom built workstation. Windows 10 Pro x64.
     
    SONAR Platinum. Cakewalk by Bandlab.
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    ASRock 970 mobo, AMD FX 8370 8-Core. 16 gb DDR3 PC1866 G Skill Ripjaws X RAM. AMD FirePro V4900 1gb DDR5 accelerated graphics card. 
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    #10
    scook
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/06 21:12:43 (permalink)
    To the OP - which process are you using to create a new project.
    #11
    msmcleod
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/06 21:51:32 (permalink)
    Steev
     WOWZER! That's some shockingly crazy high latency report. Is there any reason you need 2048 samples in your buffer? I honestly can't think of any.
    I have my Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 gen 2 set at 24 bit 48 k/Hz and buffer size set to 128, CbB can take anything I throw at it, 8 audio tracks at a time with audio FX running in real-time recording, on top of Additive Drums 2, Rapture Pro or what ever, and stay rock solid with no audio artifacts, and the effective recording latency is 2.7 msec, roundtrip 12.6 msec @ 604 samples.
    Latency drops down to 0.7 msec set to 24/96, but there's no humanly detectable difference in performance or sound quality, so why waste the hard drive space with the extra HUGE project files?
     Do NOT try setting your buffer size to 128 without an 8 core high performance workstation, but I've never had to set up a mid grade Intel i5 computer for anyone and have to set the buffer size to over 512 on any computer built in the past 7 years or so, and NONE ever ran over 20 msec effective recording latency, even with very inexpensive M-Audio audio interfaces.
     Don't nobody be laugh'in at or hat'in on M-Audio just because they're inexpensive.
     



    I'm running a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 1st gen at 24 bit / 44.1Khz with a buffer size of 64 without issue - it will even cope with 32, but it can start to complain with some VSTi's at 32. 
     
    I've had > 64 tracks, each running a waves SSL G channel without issue using a buffer size of 64.
     
    My PC is pretty old - a 3rd gen i5 running at 3.4Ghz (i5 3570) with 16GB RAM.
     

    Mark McLeod
    Cakewalk by BL | ASUS P8B75-V, Intel I5 3570 16GB RAM Win 10 64 + Win 7 64/32 SSD HD's, Scarlett 18i20 / 6i6 | ASUS ROG GL552VW 16GB RAM Win 10 64 SSD HD's, Scarlett 2i2 | Behringer Truth B2030A / Edirol MA-5A | Mackie MCU + C4 + XT | 2 x BCF2000, Korg NanoKontrol Studio
    #12
    scook
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/06 22:07:10 (permalink)
    To the OP - it may be related to a newly discovered issue, see http://forum.cakewalk.com/FindPost/3795024
     
    #13
    bassfaceus
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/07 02:00:36 (permalink)
    Thanks all..its just like the posts in that link...so its a bug then...the suggestion to initiate a project from file/new seems to work...thanks for your time
    #14
    Steev
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    Re: cake wont remember sampling rate 2018/11/08 20:59:32 (permalink)
    WOW I just noticed that if I start a new project in CbB and choose the "Normal" project template it sets the project to 16 bit 48 k/Hz.
     I'm thinking this might be done on purpose (a simple no brainer for the novice user, those of us without decent pro grade near field monitors good enough to actually HEAR the difference between 16 and 24 bit) because it still achieves very good sound quality with the lowest latency on a less than powerful computer that may struggle processing with 24 bit multi-track recording?????
     
     Anyway FIRST THING you need to do to set up SONAR to always start at 24/48 is select  "Open an Empty Project".
     Press "P" on the keyboard to open the "Preferences" dialog box and go down to the "File" section on the left side and select "Audio Data".
     In the File bit depths section select 24 bit depth in the record, render, and import boxes, than hit the "Apply" button, than "OK" to leave the dialog box. This will not only make sure new projects default to 24 bit, it'll make sure all audio "imported" into the project get automatically converted to 24 bit. They will also automatically "export" at 24 bit, but you can always select a different format or bit depth and rate.
     Also in the "Audio" section select the "drivers settings" make sure "Default settings for new projects is set to 48000, hit the "Apply" button than "OK" to leave the dialog box.
     Now every time you select "Empty Project" template for a "New Project" it should open by default to 24/48.
     But if you choose the "Normal" project template it will set the project to 16 bit 48 k/Hz.
     
    However, creating your own custom complete detailed project templates can save you enormous amounts of time out of the box, and give you the ability to start recording as soon as SONAR or CbB loads and as soon as inspiration and the muse hits.
     
    Great sounding mixes are a skill set, not a bit depth or a sample rate. And just because you can record at ultra super sonic speeds up to 192 k/Bs doesn't mean you should.
     In reality, what real difference does it make if your only going to squash the extra signal to noise ratio out with compressors and limiters, than further muddy it up with tape emulation reverse engineer with "vintage" plugins on a song that going to end up most likely being distributed as an .mp3, listened to on a smartphone most likely streamed from YouTube, or Spotify, vinyl, or CD at best?
     All of this can actually be accomplished recording at 16/44.1 with headroom to spare, and if you can't understand that then you must really hate the sound of all music recorded before the 90's.
     
     My main any only reason for recording in 24/48 is it's the established industry standard widely used and accepted in Pro Tools. Even though I'm an avid Cakewalk user, 99% of the professional collaboration work I do is going to go through and be mixed and finished off in Pro Tools.
     That being said, once I get my project and mix sounding the way I want it, I than sub mix to a buss mix and export the buss mix as .OMF multi-track that will simply open in Pro Tools sounding exactly the way I want it without any muss or fuss or sample rate conversion that may confuse or stump collaborators and or force any clients to perform unnecessary tasks.
     Fun fact in case you didn't know it, Cakewalk can read and write basic Pro Tools audio projects.
     I know all this to be true because I also have Pro Tools 10 (32x) and PT 12 (64x) running on a Mac, Pro Tools First running in Windows which I use to test drive my work before sending and passing it along.
     Pro Tools First now comes bundled with all Focusrite audio interfaces. It's a full fledged functioning licensed version of Pro Tools but limited to 16 tracks.
     However Cakewalk by Bandlab is free of all and can once you take the time to learn how to use it, I mean really dig in and learn how to use it, you'll understand how it can put a SMACK DOWN  on anything else out there. LoL
     
     I never experienced SONAR or CbB defaulting to 16 bit 48 k/Hz before because I always use my own 6 custom pre patched and channel routed configured project template setups designed for my studio and personal workflow, based on what mics, instruments, and or genre.
     This way, if I'm going to start a rock, jazz or blues song project I always instantly upon startup have 8 audio tracks with ProChannel preset patched, routed and labeled respectively to my audio interface, and Addictive Drums 2 all setup to be controlled by a Novation Impulse MIDI keyboard controller with all 12 audio channels labeled, patched into it's own stereo drum buss and ready to... What really cool about the Novation Impulse is, I have the drum pads set up to trigger each drum piece in AD 2 for real-time playing, or with a push of a button each pad will trigger loops, and I can STILL play other synth(s) with the 61 key keyboard. (This really bugs out my Ableton Live/Push user buddies.) Ableton's Push controllers are truly the cat's arse for wave/loop/sample editing in Live, but they are no match for Cakewalk's Audio Snap and Loop Creation Tools, Matrix combined a Novation Impulse.
     However, Cakewalk will not correct mistakes for you, nor can you just randomly slap pads and shotgun loops into it and expect nice sounding very danceable music to come out. And that's where Ableton Live/Push rigs shine.
     Every Ableton Live/Push project that I ever imported in SONAR or Cakewalk came at me at 16 bit 44.1 k/Hz stereo .wav format and were automatically converted to 24/48 upon being "imported" in SONAR or CbB, and have  really good sound quality.
     I have absolutely no idea if the bit rate and sample rate can even be set or changed in Ableton Live. None of my Ableton Live buddies know what I'm talking about when I mention bit depth or sample rates or even care. Only response I've ever gotten was; "Oh dude I got Gigs and Gigs of samples with Ableton Live!" Nor can they tell the difference between audio phrase samples or MIDI sequences. Not knowing how to navigate the Ableton Live user interface too well, neither can I.
    OK, I'm rambling...… Back to the benefits of creating project setup templates and having them always default to 24/48 for new projects.
     My beloved and really, really GREAT sounding Kawai K11 already patched into 2 MIDI channels. One for itself, one to be used as a MIDI controller for a VSTi such as Rapture Pro, or a DXi like Cakewalk TTS-1.
     My one size fits all Waves HReverb is already set up to my favorite sounding room already assigned to it's own stereo buss, just waiting for any channel's Aux send.
     And there is a stereo buss setup for vocals groups with Waves Scheps Omni Channel just sitting there waiting to be turned on if needed.
     All preassigned ProChannel modules and preconfigured plugins across all channels and busses are default to "off" in empty project templates.
     
     
    Not only do my new projects always set to 24/48, I know what tracks and channels where my vocals will be, where guitar tracks will be, where the bass is going to be, and where the drums are, synths, etc, and what bank they are on, on my Behringer X Touch.
     
    It could normally take me 1/2 an hour to an hour easily to set a DAW up with such an elaborate "hit arm, record, and go" setup starting from scratch. It's all too easy to simply delete tracks and instruments not used, and just as simple to duplicate if I need more, or I simply push the add audio track button, or the add MIDI track button on my X Touch.
    But by preconfiguring your OWN commonly used DAW setups based on your commonly used workflow using your favorite tools, brand new empty SONAR or Cakewalk project templates set ups load in SECONDS!

    Steev on Bandlab.com
     
    Custom built workstation. Windows 10 Pro x64.
     
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    Western Digital 500GB SSD bootdrive,  WD 500GB 10k rpm VelociRaptor for DAW projects . 2x1 TB WD Caviar Black SATA3 storage drives
     
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