spacey
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 13:45:03
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No you didn't.
I was making a point. Nobody that makes videos include these issues.
You're not sure why he would include them......I say the bugs should be included.
Of course he's selling.....just like Cake. Obvious why they wouldn't include them.
Well if they're not listening they could watch a movie- Live and in color - just like
I said in the thread I posted....oh yeah ....HD 3D too.
To me....all the talk is like somebody that just keeps telling ya the movie over and over...
I'd like to watch it...that's all.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 13:50:49
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When it comes to listening, why on earth have we not got our colour customisations back? I read somewhere upstairs that it's "quite difficult to do". Uh? When you think of the incredible things that SONAR can do, like computing countless thousands of audio calculations at 9263bit* floating point in tiny fractions of a second, while routing it all in real time through complex send and bussing options and CPU intensive VST's, it sort of makes you wonder doesn't it. Arrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh TM * I may have made that bit up
post edited by SteveStrummerUK - 2012/09/26 13:53:14
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Beagle
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 13:54:19
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+1 Straummy. benstat and panu can do it, why can't cake?
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bapu
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 13:57:10
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SteveStrummerUK
When it comes to listening, why on earth have we not got our colour customisations back?
I read somewhere upstairs that it's "quite difficult to do".
Was that from a CW staffer? Or just a spec-a-later?
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offnote
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 13:57:11
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SteveStrummerUK
When it comes to listening, why on earth have we not got our colour customisations back?
because this is illegal in some states. Some may say it's software racism.
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Rain
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 14:01:40
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Don't know about X2 but, I was under the impression that Cakewalk had finally listened to our (Mac users) plead to port Zeta to Mac. When I venture in the Instruments Forum and see the number of reports of issues w/ Zeta and other instruments on my platform - problems which go as far as an installer that won't work - I realize two things. 1st - how great those forums are in terms of peer to peer support, as long as the users base is consistent enough. 2nd - how cool it'd be if Cakewalk officially dedicated some resources to their forums. In all those threads about Zeta and other instruments on Mac, only 2 or 3 times did someone from Cakewalk chime in to ask a question, never to get back. I don't blame it on them, as I know that employees participating in threads do so freely, w/ no formal obligation, and that Cakewalk prefers to have a dedicated channel for official support. Still, particularly in the case of a "new" product like the Mac version of Zeta, I feel it'd be wise to dedicate resources to follow up w/ the new users here on the boards. You know what they say about first impressions... From my days in customer services, one thing that earned me constant praises and many awards wasn't so much that I could fix every problem or get everyone all that they wanted, far from it. Instead, it was a simple rule I had set myself to acknowledge every request or report sent my way and to punctually get back to my customers and tell them where we were at, so that they didn't feel left out in the cold. Doing so, even when we were going through rough patches, it kept dissatisfaction to a manageable level. I think it's a paradox to think that whenever I have an issue or a question regarding an IK product, I can just post it here in the software forum or pm IK Obi and get a reply - usually w/in a few hours, at most. Whereas a thread about the lack of a manual in Zeta for Mac will simply drift out of sight. Bug reports and tickets are cool, but a bit of personalized answers to questions goes a long way. Showing the customers that you listen to them isn't only a matter of including user requested features in your applications - after all, that's more of a simple rule of survival. It's about communication. In these days of social medias, I think many companies may be starting to realize that.
post edited by Rain - 2012/09/26 14:03:38
TCB - Tea, Cats, Books...
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Bub 
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 14:02:40
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Beagle
as far as Roland goes, cake staff keeps stating that roland doesn't have anything to do with their every day operations. they are still an "independent company" under the roland sheild. so it would seem that roland does not give them a budget, but they operate on their own budget as before the roland takeover "partnership."
Yeah, that's the exact story the company that bought the company my wife worked for gave, only to dump them 4 years later when they fell below the 150% minimum profit margin they required of all the companies under their " shield". The reality is, now that Cakewalk has investors, they are more than ever driven by profits and ways to make money and keep that revenue stream open and flowing. Can you say Pro Channel Modules anyone? And there's nothing wrong with that at all ... but anyone who says they are just affiliated with Roland and that doesn't effect their business operation is not being entirely truthful with you. Does anyone here really think Roland is going to 'partner' with a company just because they are nice guys? Hell no ... like Mooch said, it's all about money. Don't let the fact that they are doing what they (and we) love to do to make money cloud things. Usually you don't affiliate with another company unless you have to, or you want to get more exposure in a market. Now ... the question is ... were the people running Cakewalk smart enough to secure enough revenue to keep Cakewalk afloat if Roland decides to part ways?
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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Beagle
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 14:19:28
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Bub, I can agree with you mostly. but I'd rather not get into a rant about the Roland/Cakewalk relationship or how driven they are to make a profit. I'd rather just stick to the subject about whether they "listen" to their customers or not.
personally I think they do listen to their customers more than other companies do. Steinberg and Avid couldn't care less what I want on my DAW.
There are some things, however, that they don't listen about like MIDI, drum tracks (still MIDI related), Staff View, PRV, and dozens of other feature requests I'm sure I'm leaving out.
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bapu
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 14:42:16
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Well, they did eliminate the "automatic" select all events upon entering PRV in X2.
That change in X2, IMO, was a very very very good thing. That was a frustrating X1 "feature".
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Bub
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 14:46:02
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Beagle
Bub, I can agree with you mostly. but I'd rather not get into a rant about the Roland/Cakewalk relationship or how driven they are to make a profit. I'd rather just stick to the subject about whether they "listen" to their customers or not.
personally I think they do listen to their customers more than other companies do. Steinberg and Avid couldn't care less what I want on my DAW.
There are some things, however, that they don't listen about like MIDI, drum tracks (still MIDI related), Staff View, PRV, and dozens of other feature requests I'm sure I'm leaving out.
No rant, just replying to a post and giving examples. :) And once again, I went to great lengths to make that post not seem like a rant because of past experience. :) Damn it! I failed again! LOL! :) I don't know why, but when I see a thread that interests me, I usually read them from newest to oldest post (other than the OP), and reply in that order. Probably part of the reason I play left handed too. Doh! :) I would venture to say they listen to people in actual studio's where they have placed their software in real-world environments. Not Bapu and Bub's basement studio's if you know what I mean ... it's kind of hard to take a guy seriously with 40,000 meaningless posts of "Ja" and "Am" and one with an avatar of an ax in his head. Could you imagine how much time it would take to weed through all the "Ja's" to find something meaningful (to Cakewalk) ... if there even is? I think people in real world environments like Danny, and a couple of others who actually have professional studios have a far greater influence on them. As a matter of fact, I know for a fact they do. Danny got the global on/off for the Pro Channel implemented almost immediately upon request. The other thing is, they aren't as vocal about problems as guys like me are, because they have a greater arsenal of tools to work with and come up with 'other' solutions to Sonars problems because they are running a business and not sitting in their basement smashing on their keyboard for 198 hours trying to fix snap to grid, or v-vocal, etc etc. So when they do say there is a problem, it's effecting their business and Cakewalk will step in. Again, like Mooch and I have said, money talks ... bull$**** walks. You work with the guy who you know is going to keep coming back to you because his business is set up around you. All I have is Sonar, if it doesn't work, I'm SOL. So, I complain a lot, while other don't, and guys who complain a lot are taken less seriously and ignored and that's another dynamic to who gets listened to and who doesn't.
post edited by Bub - 2012/09/26 14:47:39
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 14:48:40
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bapu
SteveStrummerUK
When it comes to listening, why on earth have we not got our colour customisations back?
I read somewhere upstairs that it's "quite difficult to do".
Was that from a CW staffer? Or just a spec-a-later?
[feverishlystrummaging] Danny alludes to it in THIS POST (#37) Edwidge [/feverishlystrummaging] Looks like the source is genuine enough.
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bapu
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 14:55:25
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Bub,
On a humorous note I agree with your assessment (40K of drivel and an axes in the head), but.......
With a thread dedicated to a real issue where 25 others have agreed that a problem is real and submit bug reports to that effect (and one of them is Beagle with 40K of meaningful posts) one would hope that
a) they would take notice and at least tell one of those 25 people that bug has no merit, will be fixed at a later date or request more detailed info or receipe
b) realize they do not have to even care how many posts anyone has (nor have to search them for any reason)
c) all of the above
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bapu
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 14:56:41
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SteveStrummerUK
bapu
SteveStrummerUK
When it comes to listening, why on earth have we not got our colour customisations back?
I read somewhere upstairs that it's "quite difficult to do".
Was that from a CW staffer? Or just a spec-a-later?
[feverishlystrummaging] Danny alludes to it in THIS POST (#37) Edwidge [/feverishlystrummaging]
Looks like the source is genuine enough.
Thx mate.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 14:58:35
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bapu
On a humorous note I agree with your assessment (40K of drivel and an axes in the head), but....... "Post count matters not to Cakewalk" ~ Straummy (2012)
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bapu
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 15:06:15
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SteveStrummerUK
bapu
On a humorous note I agree with your assessment (40K of drivel and an axes in the head), but.......
"Post count matters not to Cakewalk"
~ Straummy (2012)
CHORTLEx2!!!!!
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Beagle
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 15:16:02
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bapu
Well, they did eliminate the "automatic" select all events upon entering PRV in X2.
That change in X2, IMO, was a very very very good thing. That was a frustrating X1 "feature".
Yes, I've heard they fixed that and that's good that they did, but it's only a small part of the PRV / Staff / MIDI requests which have been made.
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Beagle
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 15:20:35
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Bub
Beagle
Bub, I can agree with you mostly. but I'd rather not get into a rant about the Roland/Cakewalk relationship or how driven they are to make a profit. I'd rather just stick to the subject about whether they "listen" to their customers or not.
personally I think they do listen to their customers more than other companies do. Steinberg and Avid couldn't care less what I want on my DAW.
There are some things, however, that they don't listen about like MIDI, drum tracks (still MIDI related), Staff View, PRV, and dozens of other feature requests I'm sure I'm leaving out.
No rant, just replying to a post and giving examples. :) And once again, I went to great lengths to make that post not seem like a rant because of past experience. :) Damn it! I failed again! LOL! :) I don't know why, but when I see a thread that interests me, I usually read them from newest to oldest post (other than the OP), and reply in that order. Probably part of the reason I play left handed too. Doh! :)
I would venture to say they listen to people in actual studio's where they have placed their software in real-world environments. Not Bapu and Bub's basement studio's if you know what I mean ... it's kind of hard to take a guy seriously with 40,000 meaningless posts of "Ja" and "Am" and one with an avatar of an ax in his head. Could you imagine how much time it would take to weed through all the "Ja's" to find something meaningful (to Cakewalk) ... if there even is?
I think people in real world environments like Danny, and a couple of others who actually have professional studios have a far greater influence on them. As a matter of fact, I know for a fact they do. Danny got the global on/off for the Pro Channel implemented almost immediately upon request. The other thing is, they aren't as vocal about problems as guys like me are, because they have a greater arsenal of tools to work with and come up with 'other' solutions to Sonars problems because they are running a business and not sitting in their basement smashing on their keyboard for 198 hours trying to fix snap to grid, or v-vocal, etc etc. So when they do say there is a problem, it's effecting their business and Cakewalk will step in. Again, like Mooch and I have said, money talks ... bull$**** walks. You work with the guy who you know is going to keep coming back to you because his business is set up around you.
while I do understand bapsi's next reply to you, I think I agree mostly with this. I think some "customers" have more "weight" than others when it comes to what they listen to. All I have is Sonar, if it doesn't work, I'm SOL. So, I complain a lot, while other don't, and guys who complain a lot are taken less seriously and ignored and that's another dynamic to who gets listened to and who doesn't. I don't have a way to really argue that point, you could be correct! As I said, I do believe that some customers carry more weight than others when it comes to what they listen to.
post edited by Beagle - 2012/09/26 15:24:24
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Bub
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 15:38:54
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bapu
Bub,
On a humorous note I agree with your assessment (40K of drivel and an axes in the head), but.......
With a thread dedicated to a real issue where 25 others have agreed that a problem is real and submit bug reports to that effect (and one of them is Beagle with 40K of meaningful posts) one would hope that
a) they would take notice and at least tell one of those 25 people that bug has no merit, will be fixed at a later date or request more detailed info or receipe
b) realize they do not have to even care how many posts anyone has (nor have to search them for any reason)
c) all of the above
A) Yeah, but which 25 people sent in bug reports? 25 Danzi's or 25 Bubpu's?  B) I disagree for several reasons ... C) ok. :)
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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bapu
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 15:48:20
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Bub
A) Yeah, but which 25 people sent in bug reports? 25 Danzi's or 25 Bubpu's?
I believe Danny himself commented on the thread. Don't know/remember if he chose to submit a bug report or not.
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bapu
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 15:54:33
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IIRC he stated that the "bug" doesn't affect him because of how he sets up drum templates and if I chose to do it the way he does it would not "bug" me either, but I chose to work differently (not better or worse, just differently) than Danny does when it comes to MIDI drums.
I do totally understand and get why Danny does what he does and I can see why it is his flow. It's just not my "flow".
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Mooch4056
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 15:58:40
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bapu
Mooch4056
I think they listen in terms of profit. No matter what it's a buisness and they need to make x amount of dollars profit. Most buisness plans involve doing better profit wise each quarter or year.
So in regards to what the customers needs are If they think they will help sales ....Then yes they listen
If the customers needs wants or demands won't generate a profit or cause profit to decline .... Then they don't listen ... Or they listen but don't do
Cakewalk products are great ...I use them
But the bottom line is money ...and cakewalk existence is to make money
If if we don't like that truth ..... It's that
Are you sure about that Mooch?
Are you an ecologist proctologist economist or summpin?
Ya I am. Sure .....go tell everyone over there at cakewalk that they don't have a paycheck any more but could they still come to work everyday and make it a better product ......see how many employees show up ..... I am pretty sure there would be no x3
post edited by Mooch4056 - 2012/09/26 16:00:01
From Now On Call Me Conquistador!
Donate to the cure Bapu Foundation Email: mooch4056@gmail.com for more info
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Bub
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 16:10:12
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bapu
Bub
A) Yeah, but which 25 people sent in bug reports? 25 Danzi's or 25 Bubpu's?
I believe Danny himself commented on the thread. Don't know/remember if he chose to submit a bug report or not.
Hi Bapu, I should probably say I don't even know which thread your referring to. I don't read all threads, just the titles that grab my attention, so it's possible I missed it, even if it's a current one. And also, I didn't mean anything I posted as a dig on anyone. My apologies if anyone took it that way. I love you all. Whew, man, I gotta lay off these pain killers. ;) Bub.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 16:14:31
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Bub
I love you all. Whew, man, I gotta lay off this pain killers. ;)
Fixed 
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Mooch4056
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 16:19:34
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Steve so funny ....he mah mehe LOL al time
From Now On Call Me Conquistador!
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IK Obi
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 16:26:15
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Yes. I just think they get an earful and that can be harder to pick apart.
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bapu
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 16:27:17
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Bub
bapu
Bub
A) Yeah, but which 25 people sent in bug reports? 25 Danzi's or 25 Bubpu's?
I believe Danny himself commented on the thread. Don't know/remember if he chose to submit a bug report or not.
Hi Bapu,
I should probably say I don't even know which thread your referring to. I don't read all threads, just the titles that grab my attention, so it's possible I missed it, even if it's a current one.
And also, I didn't mean anything I posted as a dig on anyone. My apologies if anyone took it that way.
I love you all. Whew, man, I gotta lay off these pain killers. ;)
Bub.
Bub, We be cool. No jive.
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Bub
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 16:30:57
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SteveStrummerUK
Bub
I love you all. Whew, man, I gotta lay off this pain killers. ;)
Fixed
I have a friend who swears his two biggest influences are Rob Halford, and me. I didn't know if I should thank him or slap him. :) He sounds just like Halford, you should hear our version of Runaway by Del Shannon.
"I pulled the head off Elvis, filled Fred up to his pelvis, yaba daba do, the King is gone, and so are you."
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bapu
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 16:47:05
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Just want to say that 25 was prolly an exaggeration of the number of people who supported my cause. It was prolly 5.
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SteveStrummerUK
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 16:50:30
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Jonbouy
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Re:cakewalk has "an ear to our customers..."
2012/09/26 17:43:38
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Bub
All I have is Sonar, if it doesn't work, I'm SOL. So, I complain a lot, while other don't, and guys who complain a lot are taken less seriously and ignored and that's another dynamic to who gets listened to and who doesn't.
This is an excellent point, some people including myself actually get frustrated and passionate about certain problems that persist and a spokesperson my big up the plus sides and will be con****ously absent about discussing something that is undoubtedly a problem. So I'm more prone to ranting but it's basically coming from a place where I actually give a damn. Then there are those that are less discerning or are not affected by a particular problem that can't resist painting you up as a 'hater' which of course compounds the frustration. They seem to be just happy that a regular new version comes out regardless of whether it is the complete turkey that the original X1 was. Even in the end X1 didn't actually do anything that wasn't already possible in 8.5.3 all that happened ultimately is I managed to avoid the issues the required 4 major patch release and the intermediate nickel and diming that went on with Expanded which has since been fully incorporated. To my mind those people to more of a disservice to the product than the so called 'haters'. To me that mentality has less to do with having high expectations of a product that performs well and seems more like wanting a sequel to a game with new levels. So whether a company is percieved as 'listening' isn't that important to me when it comes to taking into account that kind of thinking, but having a clear strategy of how to steer the company and the product forward, is. Coming up with something winning that nobody else thought of is more something that would excite me to see in Sonar. Real innovators get people listening to them not the other way round.
post edited by Jonbouy - 2012/09/26 17:56:01
"We can't do anything to change the world until capitalism crumbles. In the meantime we should all go shopping to console ourselves" - Banksy
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