cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering?

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PeteNova
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2011/09/15 23:00:00 (permalink)

cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering?

I've finished a CD project in Sonar Producer 8.3 and I'm ready to arrange the songs on CD.  I've been using CD Architect and I've noticed that cd's created in CD Architect sound much worse than the quick reference CD's I've made in Windows Media Player.  The high end is harsh the bass is almost gone and I hear a weird buzzing on some tracks.  I've had X1 for months and haven't installed it yet.  I think I read that it has some final CD rendering capabilities that 8.3 didn't.  Any feedback on this or would you recommend another program. I've heard that Wavelab is great but it's too pricey for me at the moment. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Pete
post edited by PeteNova - 2011/09/15 23:01:28
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    mixmkr
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/15 23:10:58 (permalink)
    Something is amuck....   I've been using CD Arch since it first came out...in the 90's or so.  I haven't found a program to top it, watch its' price come down a couple hundred bucks, and most importantly, haven't ever heard any audio degredation.  I've sent stuff off to be mastered arranged in CD Arch and made copies from masters, etc, etc etc...   always sounded like the source input to me.

    I've never gotten that deep in Wavelab, but I think that's the only program to touch CD arch.  I find it hard to understand that WMP makes better sounding files than CDA.

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    #2
    Bub
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/15 23:11:18 (permalink)
    I use CD Architect 5.2 and have never experienced the problems you are having. It's always made great CD's for me.

    I don't do any mastering in CD Architect though ... I do everything in Sonar, then export the projects to a 44.1/16bit wav and load in to CD Architect.

    You need to be careful that Dithering is not being applied to a wav a second time in CD Architect that has already been Dithered in Sonar.

    X1 is going to burn CD's in a similar way as Windows Media Player in that, you burn a wav and that's it. You can't place markers, add CD TEXT, etc ...

    I love the CD TEXT feature in CD Architect btw.



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    #3
    mixmkr
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/15 23:34:54 (permalink)
    I have to agree with Bub and clarify my post.  I didn't send files rendered in CD arch to be mastered...which is what it sounds like I said above.  I meant I've made reference files, showing cross fades, volume balances, etc... with CDarch...as a reference for the mastering engineer.  I would send 24 bit files, usually 44.1 to be mastered and let the engineer dither it down and create a mastered version of my CD arch example.

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    #4
    PeteNova
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/15 23:44:45 (permalink)
    yeah, I don't get it. I mastered all the tunes in Sonar, and exported using Powr-3 dithering to a file folder on my Desktop.  I import the tracks into CDA as opposed to exporting them directly from Sonar. I don't use the dithering in CD architect and the results sound inferior to the sound of the tracks burned to CD using Windows Media Player.  I love the flexibility of CD Arch. I must be doing something wrong or perhaps I need to reinstall the program. When I'm not adding any dithering, I don't understand how the sound would be different between any two cd writing programs. 
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    mixmkr
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/15 23:54:23 (permalink)
    using 5.2?    just guessing to help....
     
    and more guessing...not fx added in, volumes all kept constant...  since you can add or change all that stuff in CD arch
    post edited by mixmkr - 2011/09/15 23:55:36

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    Counting Coup
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/16 00:19:22 (permalink)
    CDA 5.2 is the only remaining constant in the universe, bless it!
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    AT
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/16 00:28:54 (permalink)
    The problem is not CDA.  It is a superb program that is used professionally.  So something is amiss in how you are using it.  I couldn't begin to guess.  No bass, harsh highs?  Basically, it takes your wav files and lines them up for CD replication.  It can do a lot more, but that is its core function.  It shouldn't sound any different from what you give it.

    I can only say to make sure you don't have any processing on the fx section, nothing in preferences that would effect the sound and check the vol with the rubber band envelope.

    Really weird.

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    CJaysMusic
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/16 00:39:39 (permalink)
    Cd Architect is much better for burning Cd's than Sonar X1 and 100 other programs

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    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/16 06:17:18 (permalink)
    CDA is probably my best ever software purchase after Sonar

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    Wookiee
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/16 07:11:24 (permalink)
    Personally I export from SONAR as 32bit files no dithering. 

    Then use CD Arch to comp the CD apply Sony's standard 16bit dithering if a track needs some EQ or some other FX to balance levels then it happens.

    Would not use anything else best software investment I ever made.

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    daryl1968
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/16 07:51:01 (permalink)
    +10 on all of the above CDA is the shizz
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    mudgel
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/16 08:23:09 (permalink)
    Gota agree with the comments here. CD Architect 5.2 is probably one fo the most stable bug free pieces of sftare I'e encountered.

    If it's Redbook standard CD you need there isn't anything that comes close.

    I really would be interested in your process if somehow WMP does create a better sounding CD than CD5.2

    As for SONAR - it wont really bring anything to the table as far as differences between 8.3 and X1 goes.

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    FastBikerBoy
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/16 09:09:01 (permalink)
    If it's just for burning with the ability to add CD text, ISRC numbers etc. you'll be hard pushed to find better value than Imgburn mainly because it's free.

    It's not the easiest to use but very powerful and configurable with good online "how to's" as well.
    #14
    Lynn
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/16 13:00:18 (permalink)
    CDA works wonders here. Just a wild guess, but check your routing in CDA and make sure the sound is going where you want it to go.

    All the best,
    Lynn

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    mixmkr
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/16 22:54:41 (permalink)
    one last shot off into cyberville...
    I've NEVER had CD arch lock up, crash, etc.   and back around '96 or so... I had ONE coaster...  before they had the buffer underun checking stuff..

    NEVER a crash in over 15 years or so...

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    fireberd
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/17 07:18:21 (permalink)
    I use Nero, Burning ROM, for CD burning and have never had a problem.  I burn audio CD's at 8X for compatibility with older CD players.  Nero allows adding the ISRC code, protection, CD text, etc.  I also use Taiyo Yuden ink jet printable discs and print labels with an Epson printer. 

    I export my songs as standard 16 bit wav files, I don't let Nero or some other program do any other converting.

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    bitflipper
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/17 14:01:29 (permalink)
    Don't do any processing at all on the audio file in CDA and it should write the file exactly as you supplied it. You're not using the Normalize feature, are you?


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    bitflipper
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/17 14:05:18 (permalink)
    I use Nero...

    fireberd, a question for you...I have an older version (7) of Nero that's always annoyed the heck outa me because it insists on loading every VST on my system before I can burn a disk, and there does not appear to be any option for disabling that. Other than that annoyance, I like the program just fine. Are you perhaps using a newer version that does not do that?


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    fireberd
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/17 15:15:00 (permalink)
    I've never seen Nero ask to load VST's or anything other than it's own software.  V7 is old as they are up to V10 now.  But, I've had Nero since V6 and never saw anything that you have.

    When I burn audio files from Sonar, I export them as standard 16 bit stereo wav files.  I use Nero "Burning ROM" to burn and the program has never asked for or wanted to load anything other than it's own program.

    Was this some special version that came with some recording program?

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    Thatsastrat
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/17 15:38:20 (permalink)
    bitflipper



    I use Nero...

    fireberd, a question for you...I have an older version (7) of Nero that's always annoyed the heck outa me because it insists on loading every VST on my system before I can burn a disk, and there does not appear to be any option for disabling that. Other than that annoyance, I like the program just fine. Are you perhaps using a newer version that does not do that?
    Hey Bit!
              If you do not install the wave editor part of the program during install, it will not scan for vst's.  

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    deswind
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/17 17:41:06 (permalink)
    I love CDA 5.2 
    My only gripe is that it only takes DX and not VST effects, though I found a good wrapper that works.  (I believe it is called "console" - highly recommended if you are bringing in VST effects - like limiters, eq, into CDA 5.2)
    #22
    bitflipper
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/17 20:15:06 (permalink)
    If you do not install the wave editor part of the program during install, it will not scan for vst's.

    Ah! That's good to know. That wave editor is completely useless anyway.


    All else is in doubt, so this is the truth I cling to. 

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    PeteNova
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/17 23:53:48 (permalink)
    Ok so first off the noise I was hearing was a buzz on  bass tracks that was prominent when I played it on CDA but not any other software/player.  Weird, but the good news is that the bass buzz wasn't on the burned CD just on the track when played on CDA. The harsh high end I think I figured out was that the sound of the track when burned with CDA was actually a better representation of the track than the sound of the track when burned with Windows Media Player. WMP actually smears the track a little and has the effect of rolling off the very high frequencies which hides some harshness that would normally make me go back and remix or remaster to get the high end sounding smoother.  So, that's what I did and the tracks sound a lot better in general and on CDA specifically.
      I don't know how to check the driver profiles in CDA.  I can't find it on the gui or the help files.  I know I must be missing it.  Is there any way to check them like you can in Sonar in the Audio options dialogue window? 
      I'd like to figure out what's causing the bass buzz on the CDA player even though it doesn't seem to end up on the CD.  It certaintly seem like everbody really digs this program.  I do too. I love the ease with which you can arrange the layout of  your project with crossfades etc so easily.  If I could figure out what's causing the buzz and felt a llittle more confident that  I've tackled the high end issue I'd be a true believer too. Thanks for your feedback and any advise on the buzzing would be helpful.
    Thanks
    Pete
    #24
    Wookiee
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/18 05:33:31 (permalink)
    This tiny little thought popped into my head as I read your comment above. 

    In CDA is the dithering option included as default in you master chain?

    Is it set to the right type?

    Is it the last plug-in in the chain?

    Please do not misinterpret the above questions as I remember I comped a CD for someone and the supplied tracks were all ready 16bit, consequently I removed the dithering pluggin from the master chain.  The next time I used CDA the mastering chain was empty which did cause a little problem as I export 24bit or 32 bit files for comping.

    This could just be Wookiee mind wandering and should be ignored if that proves to be the case.

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    fireberd
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/18 06:36:28 (permalink)
    I don't use Nero's wave editor either.  I have Goldwave (paid version) that I use for any audio editing.
     
    Actually, disc copy and audio CD burning are the only things I use. 

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    Trev Wilkins
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/18 08:04:17 (permalink)
    Check File/Properties/Audio to see if the resample quality is set to low. Also Options/Preferences/Preview to check the output device settings.

    Trev Wilkins

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    #27
    Counting Coup
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/18 13:12:54 (permalink)
    Re comment above about wrappers. I've always found Cakewalk's wrapper works well with CDA. Actually, I'm surprised to see so many folk using CDA: I thought I was alone as the forum is rarely visited. I've been using it since '98 but it appears to have been abandoned by Sony. It could do with DDP and several other updates.
    #28
    bitflipper
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/18 16:12:18 (permalink)
    Yes, it's been quite a while since CDA has seen an update. On the plus side, the price has gone down: it's $49 if you download it direct from Sony.



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    #29
    pathos
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    Re:cd architect or X1 for final CD rendering? 2011/09/18 16:24:03 (permalink)
    CDA was also included free in SoundForge 9 along with Ozone.
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