Michelle911
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31
- Joined: 2014/11/30 20:16:44
- Status: offline
does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
yeah... my google-fu is not strong, all I've been able to find is that no, it doesn't support it right now. I'm just curious if anyone knows or has heard anything about if it will eventually... hopefully!
anyhow, thanks!
:)
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/11/30 23:54:37
(permalink)
Hypercontrol info here. Hypercontrol is just a fancy name for mapping MIDI controls on M-Audio keyboards to software. Hypercontrol requires a profile that defines the mapping. I created a SONAR hypercontrol profile for an Axiom keyboard, it's not difficult. Therefore, SONAR already supports basic Hypercontrol. Later-generation AIR Hypercontrol is bi-directional and requires handshaking between keyboard and software. Of course, like MIDI or VST3, not all companies support all aspects and there's no guarantee of support for existing software or future generations of software that currently is supported...such is apparently the nature of controllers. However, later versions of Pro Tools and Ableton Live have built-in profiles because M-Audio has affiliations with both software companies. Therefore they know "what's coming down the pike" and have business reasons to keep the profiles updated. The problem with manufacturer-specific profiles is someone has to update the profiles whenever there are changes. People were going nuts for a Reason profile for the Axiom keyboard. It finally came out, and shortly thereafter there was a new version of Reason and the profile was obsolete. At the moment Reason doesn't support Hypercontrol, and M-Audio doesn't support it either. Other software with profiles are Cubase, Logic, and Garageband. Logic and Garageband don't change very often so companies can get some mileage out of the profiles before they become obsolete, I don't know what Cakewalk is up to in terms of hypercontrol support, because Cakewalk already has ACT, which pre-dated hypercontrol and is adaptable to a far greater universe of controllers than just M-Audio's. Nektar's controllers include mappings for SONAR so if someone doesn't want to come up with their own profiles for M-Audio keyboards, they can buy an off-the-shelf Nektar keyboard. But plenty of other keyboards do mappings that are user-programmable, like the Samson Graphite 49, several models from Roland, etc. etc.
|
microapp
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
- Total Posts : 653
- Joined: 2013/10/31 12:21:31
- Location: Wondervu, CO
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 00:50:33
(permalink)
Craig,
Have you already or would you be willing to share your AXIOM profile?
Michael
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 01:25:12
(permalink)
I would if I could, but the keyboard isn't in the same place I am at the moment. Sorry...but really, it's not that hard. The tip I gave about ACT in the Cakewalk blog pretty much gives the details of how to get controllers to work with ACT. Hypercontrol is just a little more formal because you want to retain the settings, whereas the tip is more about using ACT as a "scratchpad" for instant gratification with control. But the principles are the same; SONAR was way ahead of the curve with ACT, which can do anything the original hypercontrol did. However ACT can be daunting. Took me a while to wrap my head around it. Try the technique I described with any controller you have handy, and you'll get the hang of it. The main thing that trips people up is the part about linking. If you don't link properly and save the profile, then it seems like settings reset themselves to unwanted assignments. The bidirectional nature of hypercontrol has potential, but IMHO it's less important to change controller settings from the computer than it is to change computer settings from the controller.
|
Michelle911
Max Output Level: -90 dBFS
- Total Posts : 31
- Joined: 2014/11/30 20:16:44
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 03:36:38
(permalink)
Anderton
Hypercontrol info .
thanks, I thought about posting that link myself in case anyone wasn't sure what I was talking about. Anderton
Hypercontrol is just a fancy name for mapping MIDI controls on M-Audio keyboards to software. Hypercontrol requires a profile that defines the mapping. I created a SONAR hypercontrol profile for an Axiom keyboard, it's not difficult. Therefore, SONAR already supports basic Hypercontrol.
I respectfully disagree with that statement :) and it's been repeated often enough by people who don't care about Hypercontrol's functionality :( I've read it here myself. While it's true that it serves to map midi functions and keys it does it easily without having to resort to programming with the ACT interface, which is quite time consuming and a real inspiration killer. And also for the fact that I think most people want to take advantage of the functions of their hardware. I know I do! AND there's the specialized Hypercontrol keys on my keyboard which are basically useless without support. Anderton
Later-generation AIR Hypercontrol is bi-directional and requires handshaking between keyboard and software. Of course, like MIDI or VST3, not all companies support all aspects and there's no guarantee of support for existing software or future generations of software that currently is supported...such is apparently the nature of controllers. However, later versions of Pro Tools and Ableton Live have built-in profiles because M-Audio has affiliations with both software companies. Therefore they know "what's coming down the pike" and have business reasons to keep the profiles updated.
I'd be happy with just sonar supporting hypercontrol for a start. Also not faulting Sonar for not being among the first to support it. I'm just hoping they will eventually. Anderton
The problem with manufacturer-specific profiles is someone has to update the profiles whenever there are changes. People were going nuts for a Reason profile for the Axiom keyboard. It finally came out, and shortly thereafter there was a new version of Reason and the profile was obsolete. At the moment Reason doesn't support Hypercontrol, and M-Audio doesn't support it either.
hmm.... you seem to be pointing out the futility of Hypercontrol itself :( I'm new to digital recording but not to music. I have no idea about reason. I'm mainly concerned with Hypercontrol as it's built into my new keyboard. Anderton
Other software with profiles are Cubase, Logic, and Garageband. Logic and Garageband don't change very often so companies can get some mileage out of the profiles before they become obsolete,
I don't know what Cakewalk is up to in terms of hypercontrol support, because Cakewalk already has ACT, which pre-dated hypercontrol and is adaptable to a far greater universe of controllers than just M-Audio's. Nektar's controllers include mappings for SONAR so if someone doesn't want to come up with their own profiles for M-Audio keyboards, they can buy an off-the-shelf Nektar keyboard. But plenty of other keyboards do mappings that are user-programmable, like the Samson Graphite 49, several models from Roland, etc. etc.
I was hoping for some positive info on Hypercontrol. Not reasons as to why it's not worth being supported :(
|
Grem
Max Output Level: -19.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5562
- Joined: 2005/06/28 09:26:32
- Location: Baton Rouge Area
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 04:38:22
(permalink)
Michelle911
I was hoping for some positive info on Hypercontrol. Not reasons as to why it's not worth being supported :(
That's the problem I have seen with controllers for DAWs. No standard that everyone agrees on that would benefit all involved. So the user is left to research and make decisions based on info gathered and then buy into hat they believe will be the best solution for them and be forced to stay with that decision. No matter how you look at the above, it really doesn't benefit the vast majority of users.
Grem
Michael Music PC i7 2600K; 64gb Ram; 3 256gb SSD, System, Samples, Audio; 1TB & 2TB Project Storage; 2TB system BkUp; RME FireFace 400; Win 10 Pro 64; CWbBL 64, Home PCAMD FX 6300; 8gb Ram; 256 SSD sys; 2TB audio/samples; Realtek WASAPI; Win 10 Home 64; CWbBL 64 Surface Pro 3Win 10 i7 8gb RAM; CWbBL 64
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 07:04:32
(permalink)
Michelle911
Anderton
Hypercontrol is just a fancy name for mapping MIDI controls on M-Audio keyboards to software. Hypercontrol requires a profile that defines the mapping. I created a SONAR hypercontrol profile for an Axiom keyboard, it's not difficult. Therefore, SONAR already supports basic Hypercontrol.
I respectfully disagree with that statement :) and it's been repeated often enough by people who don't care about Hypercontrol's functionality :( I've read it here myself. While it's true that it serves to map midi functions and keys it does it easily without having to resort to programming with the ACT interface, which is quite time consuming and a real inspiration killer. And also for the fact that I think most people want to take advantage of the functions of their hardware. I know I do! AND there's the specialized Hypercontrol keys on my keyboard which are basically useless without support.
I know, that is quite strong statement, but from what I could find... Hypercontrol has zero functionality on M-Audio side. Let me explain: the hardware just can send "The slider is moved" encoded as some message, either in "MIDI" or "HyperControl" (or any other) mode. It is up to some software to translate that message into something useful. The difference between "Hypercontrol" and "MIDI" is the message and the way to receive it. In "Hypercontrol" it is proprietary not documented message, in "MIDI" mode it is documented and configurable. There is no difference in resolution or functionality, it is just a way to make something proprietary ("special") for good advertisement as well as a possibility to make the software incompatible with anything else. If there are some "keys" which can not produce "MIDI", you can blame the manufacture only. They did it specially to force you dislike third party products "not supporting" them. But what makes it so "cool" and "easy to use"? The software. And it should from one side support that proprietary way to communicate with the hardware and on the other side it should use the DAW Control Surface API. So that peace of software is DAW specific and the protocol specific. I do not see any reason for CW to spend time (any money for the license, SDK and the hardware) to support someone else "marketing trick". I repeat, it will work as good or bad as the Control Surface plug-in is written.
I was hoping for some positive info on Hypercontrol. Not reasons as to why it's not worth being supported :(
I see a good reason to NOT support such "technology": may be that can force producers avoid artificial proprietary protocols which just trigger incompatibility and give no advantages. Note that Novation AutoMap has the same flavour. They could easily made the software compatible with any other device and sell the software. But they prefer make everything incompatible and sell the hardware...
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
lawp
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1154
- Joined: 2012/06/28 13:27:41
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 07:19:19
(permalink)
in response to the subject/question, my speculation is "no" as even MCU has been abandoned/made open source, which makes me think proprietary controller support is not a high priority
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 09:48:43
(permalink)
Michelle911
Anderton
Hypercontrol info .
thanks, I thought about posting that link myself in case anyone wasn't sure what I was talking about.
Anderton
Hypercontrol is just a fancy name for mapping MIDI controls on M-Audio keyboards to software. Hypercontrol requires a profile that defines the mapping. I created a SONAR hypercontrol profile for an Axiom keyboard, it's not difficult. Therefore, SONAR already supports basic Hypercontrol.
I respectfully disagree with that statement. Not sure which statement you disagree with, but regarding the definition, that's how M-Audio defines it (without the word "fancy") and regarding support, SONAR can respond to MIDI mode (which I probably should have said instead of "basic") from a hypercontrol keyboard. While it's true that it serves to map midi functions and keys it does it easily without having to resort to programming with the ACT interface, which is quite time consuming and a real inspiration killer. SONAR comes with over 40 ACT profiles, including 14 for M-Audio products and five for Axiom keyboards. You don't have to program them. If you're using an unsupported controller, you only have to program an ACT controller once to create a profile. Some of the M-Audio profiles may work with your keyboard with a little tweaking, I don't know. Also as pointed out, Nektar and other companies offers controllers with pre-programmed templates for SONAR.
I'd be happy with just sonar supporting hypercontrol for a start. Also not faulting Sonar for not being among the first to support it. I'm just hoping they will eventually...I was hoping for some positive info on Hypercontrol. Not reasons as to why it's not worth being supported :(
See posts 6, 7, and 8. Controller manufacturers can develop profiles. Logic Pro X did not support hypercontrol natively and I believe M-Audio took it upon themselves to create a profile. There was a lively discussion regarding M-Audio's initial lack of support for Logic in the M-Audio forums that gives an indication of what's involved in supporting a manufacturer-specific protocol. If you're new to digital recording, be aware that you will always get the best support if you stay "within the family." M-Audio has relationships with Pro Tools and Live, so that's where you will find the tightest and most timely integration with Hypercontrol. Unfortunately, you should also be aware that while keyboard controllers sell well, comparatively few people use DAW controllers. The market is just not that big. Most companies are not going to devote resources to something that will benefit only a small number of people and need periodic updating.
|
mettelus
Max Output Level: -22 dBFS
- Total Posts : 5321
- Joined: 2005/08/05 03:19:25
- Location: Maryland, USA
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 11:49:40
(permalink)
When companies head down the path of "proprietary" they start treading on thin ice, especially when they are dependent on other manufacturers "buying in" to them. As the link in post 2 acknowledges, these controls can be set up manually, and some controllers already have profiles available within SONAR. For me, I would be critical of a manufacturer claiming how "quick and easy" there proprietary method is when there is no proof in the pudding... the reality is they need to market their keyboard as "The greatest thing since sliced bread IF you use software X, Y, or Z on the other end!" If they were truly concerned with the consumer, they would go overboard ensuring this worked with every DAW possible (i.e. profiles for that keyboard would exist for every DAW).
I used to use an M-Audio Ozone, and by the time I ever got around to assigning anything, the controllers were drifting so became a moot venture. I replaced that several months ago with a Roland A-300 PRO which conveniently has an ACT button on it. First use I pressed that button and all of the controls worked, but... Ironically, even though I have this functionality, I do not use it as I prefer to drive SONAR via keyboard/mouse, and only need access to the controller's keys.
If such a thing is truly critical to your workflow, there are options to do the initial controller setup, which is not overly complex. If I were in your shoes and thought this was the "epitome" of my workflow, I would send M-Audio an email asking about profiles that they made for use in other DAWs (if they truly cared, they would have them).
ASUS ROG Maximus X Hero (Wi-Fi AC), i7-8700k, 16GB RAM, GTX-1070Ti, Win 10 Pro, Saffire PRO 24 DSP, A-300 PRO, plus numerous gadgets and gizmos that make or manipulate sound in some way.
|
microapp
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
- Total Posts : 653
- Joined: 2013/10/31 12:21:31
- Location: Wondervu, CO
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 14:56:33
(permalink)
Thanks Craig.
I know how to set up ACT. I have mapped AXIOM-61 to Z3TA+2 for live performance.
However since I have another surface (FW-1884) for general Sonar, I was primarily interested in how you mapped the AXIOM for general Sonar use. I am not at my studio PC right now but I do not remember any stock ACT profiles for X3P AXIOM. Would these be in the control surface selections ?
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
|
bapu
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 86000
- Joined: 2006/11/25 21:23:28
- Location: Thousand Oaks, CA
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 15:17:25
(permalink)
Michelle911
Anderton
Hypercontrol info .
thanks, I thought about posting that link myself in case anyone wasn't sure what I was talking about.
You won't be able to post links until you have a sufficient number of posts to be allowed. IIRC it's either 26 or 51. Go to the Songs Forum listen to songs and comment. Get that post count up.
|
scook
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 24146
- Joined: 2005/07/27 13:43:57
- Location: TX
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 15:21:34
(permalink)
Links are enabled after an account ages 3 days and has 5 posts
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 16:42:49
(permalink)
microapp
Thanks Craig.
I know how to set up ACT. I have mapped AXIOM-61 to Z3TA+2 for live performance.
However since I have another surface (FW-1884) for general Sonar, I was primarily interested in how you mapped the AXIOM for general Sonar use. I am not at my studio PC right now but I do not remember any stock ACT profiles for X3P AXIOM. Would these be in the control surface selections ?
Wow, that was a long time ago...IIRC what I did was choose an ACT MIDI template with faders and rotaries (probably the Peavey PC-1600, I was always a huge fan of it), delved into the Axiom documentation about how to map the controls, then mapped them so SONAR thought it was a PC-1600. I also recall doing some mapping for Reason at the time.
|
microapp
Max Output Level: -77 dBFS
- Total Posts : 653
- Joined: 2013/10/31 12:21:31
- Location: Wondervu, CO
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 17:16:01
(permalink)
Anderton
Wow, that was a long time ago...
Craig, No...a long time ago is when I used to subscribe to Electronotes (remember Bernie Hutchins?) and build/modify the stuff I found there (1978?). I think I still have some articles you wrote for that mag. I still have a Terry Mikulic oscillator somewhere (maybe in the attic). Now that's a long time. 
post edited by microapp - 2014/12/01 18:05:05
Sonar Platinum, Cubase Pro 8.5, Reaper 5, Studio One 2Melodyne Studio 4, Finale 2012I7-5820K 4.5GHz, 32 GB DDR4-2800,3 monitors,Win 10 ProToshiba P75-A7100,l7-4900 2.4 Ghz/8MB Win 8.1 ProTascam FW-1884, Emu 0404USB, CMC-AI,Axiom 61Yamaha HS-50's, Sony SA-W2500, Sennheiser RS170's, ATH-M50Ibanez Jem7VWH, RG-1570Jackson DK2-S(Sustainiac),Les Paul CustomDigitech Valve-FX, GFX-1,TSR-24,RP-90
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 18:19:28
(permalink)
lawp
in response to the subject/question, my speculation is "no" as even MCU has been abandoned/made open source, which makes me think proprietary controller support is not a high priority
I'm not sure what you mean. MC support has not been abandon. Nor is there anything proprietary about it. It is the one everyone uses for compatibility. If a CS is not supported by a DAW it will have an MC mode. The Mackie Control is at present the standard by which all others try to emulate. If you are talking about CW not updating MC support That is a totally different issue. It has nothing to do with the MC protocol.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 18:31:54
(permalink)
John, I think his point isn't that the MCU isn't supported in SONAR, but that it won't be developed further. Frankly, open source is the way to go - there are a lot of potential variations in the MCU protocol, and I think it's more likely some user is going to come up with a really useful twist on it than a developer at Cakewalk who is working on new features and bug fixes.
At this point, the MCU standard is pretty mature - the Mackie Control appeared in 2003 if memory serves. If you want to do transport, solo/mute, arm record, and move faders and panpots on your main channels as well as switch banks, it works pretty reliably. Hard to say whether Hypercontrol will be equally universal in 2025.
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 19:12:57
(permalink)
Anderton
John, I think his point isn't that the MCU isn't supported in SONAR, but that it won't be developed further. Frankly, open source is the way to go - there are a lot of potential variations in the MCU protocol, and I think it's more likely some user is going to come up with a really useful twist on it than a developer at Cakewalk who is working on new features and bug fixes.
At this point, the MCU standard is pretty mature - the Mackie Control appeared in 2003 if memory serves. If you want to do transport, solo/mute, arm record, and move faders and panpots on your main channels as well as switch banks, it works pretty reliably. Hard to say whether Hypercontrol will be equally universal in 2025.
Actually its a very complete protocol. It came that way from the Logic Control. Each DAW developer is free to implement its features as they choose. In other DAWs it will do all sorts of things not available in Sonar. Its not the MC that is lacking its real support from CW. Also its still being sold. To my knowledge its had one rom update. That was many years ago. The MCU Pro adds USB. They all have identical MC abilities.
|
Splat 
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 8672
- Joined: 2010/12/29 15:28:29
- Location: Mars.
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 20:27:06
(permalink)
Has been said before, HyperControl is proprietary to MAudio. So no chance.
Sell by date at 9000 posts. Do not feed. @48/24 & 128 buffers latency is 367 with offset of 38. Sonar Platinum(64 bit),Win 8.1(64 bit),Saffire Pro 40(Firewire),Mix Control = 3.4,Firewire=VIA,Dell Studio XPS 8100(Intel Core i7 CPU 2.93 Ghz/16 Gb),4 x Seagate ST31500341AS (mirrored),GeForce GTX 460,Yamaha DGX-505 keyboard,Roland A-300PRO,Roland SPD-30 V2,FD-8,Triggera Krigg,Shure SM7B,Yamaha HS5.Maschine Studio+Komplete 9 Ultimate+Kontrol Z1.Addictive Keys,Izotope Nectar elements,Overloud Bundle,Geist.Acronis True Image 2014.
|
kitekrazy1
Max Output Level: -40 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3524
- Joined: 2014/08/02 17:52:51
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/01 20:35:58
(permalink)
My favorite function on a DAW is midi learn. I have controllers that come with their own templates but I like to do my own assigning. I can't always remember what does what on a pad controller.
|
200bpm
Max Output Level: -84 dBFS
- Total Posts : 337
- Joined: 2014/06/25 15:01:55
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/02 08:47:04
(permalink)
This thread is embarassing.
Michelle911 asks if Sonar supports Hypercontrol, and the forum "experts" (apologists) go on to explain that its problematic, not something that you should want, and that Sonar's ACT functionality already does this.
Michelle- Sonar does not have tight integration with much hardware on the market. There is the Roland A500/800, and also the Nektar Impulse LX advertizes Sonar integration. I have the Nektar, the basic functionality works well (transport, faders, bank switching), but there are problems using it to navigate the synth rack and control synth parameters. Using the stock Nektar profile in conjunction with a custom ACT profile for plugin control can do most things, but its not ideal.
If you want tight hardware integration, probably best to choose Cubase as it seems many devices are compatible with it.
Hardware integration is weak in sonar. There is ACT midi mapping, but it is definitely "roll your own" and takes some study.
i7 4790K @ 4.8/1.325v Gigabyte Z97X-ud3h, 16GB DDR3 2300, RME UFX, Sonar 3Xe
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/02 10:12:19
(permalink)
200bpm Michelle- Sonar does not have tight integration with much hardware on the market. "Much" is subjective, but I don't think you're aware of the totality of available support. As mentioned previously, SONAR comes with over 40 ACT profiles, including 14 for M-Audio products and five for Axiom keyboards. It is also compatible with Mackie Control and Mackie Control-compatible controllers, including the SSL Nucleus (SSL made a SONAR profile), various Korg controllers, Behringer, etc. etc. SONAR also supports the EUCON ethernet controller protocol; Avid has published a document on how to use their Artist Control controllers with SONAR. (FYI if you decide to go the Mackie Control route, I wrote an article on how to use Mackie Control with multiple DAWs - I'm an equal-opportunity "expert apologist" - including Logic, Pro Tools, Live, SONAR, Digital Performer, Studio One Pro, Reason, Acid Pro, Vegas, and Cubase.) If you want tight hardware integration, probably best to choose Cubase as it seems many devices are compatible with it. Actually 200 bpm is wrong again, Ableton Live would likely be a better choice, as it has native support for 67 controllers from numerous manufacturers, including Live-specific (not mapped "generic" controllers) from at least Novation and Akai Professional. Of course, they also offer their own Push controller, as well as Mackie Control compatibility. Michelle, this kind of information is readily available on the internet. Simply search on "controllers compatible with [name of program]." OTOH Cubase has their CMC modular controllers, which are pretty cool. Some of them work with SONAR as well. There is ACT midi mapping, but it is definitely "roll your own" and takes some study. You do not always have to roll your own. SONAR comes with over 40 ACT profiles. You don't have to program them. If you're using an unsupported controller, you only have to program an ACT controller once to create a profile, then save it. Also, some people are not afraid of study. For example, I know how to study style, syntax, and tracers to determine whether people are posting under aliases or not.
|
lawp
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1154
- Joined: 2012/06/28 13:27:41
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/02 10:19:35
(permalink)
"tight" is also subjective ;-)
my idea of "tight" is how my apc40 works with ableton live :-)
but craig is right in that study will help you; this is true for life in general
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
|
lawp
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1154
- Joined: 2012/06/28 13:27:41
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/02 10:23:45
(permalink)
John
lawp
in response to the subject/question, my speculation is "no" as even MCU has been abandoned/made open source, which makes me think proprietary controller support is not a high priority
I'm not sure what you mean. MC support has not been abandon. Nor is there anything proprietary about it. It is the one everyone uses for compatibility. If a CS is not supported by a DAW it will have an MC mode.
mcu needed a handshake fix; the code has been released as open source, and a user made available a fixed version; cakewalk have done no further development themselves; this is why i used the term "abandoned" with respect to support - how would you otherwise describe it?
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
|
lawp
Max Output Level: -67 dBFS
- Total Posts : 1154
- Joined: 2012/06/28 13:27:41
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/02 10:27:29
(permalink)
John
Anderton
John, I think his point isn't that the MCU isn't supported in SONAR, but that it won't be developed further. Frankly, open source is the way to go - there are a lot of potential variations in the MCU protocol, and I think it's more likely some user is going to come up with a really useful twist on it than a developer at Cakewalk who is working on new features and bug fixes.
At this point, the MCU standard is pretty mature - the Mackie Control appeared in 2003 if memory serves. If you want to do transport, solo/mute, arm record, and move faders and panpots on your main channels as well as switch banks, it works pretty reliably. Hard to say whether Hypercontrol will be equally universal in 2025.
John
Actually its a very complete protocol. It came that way from the Logic Control. Each DAW developer is free to implement its features as they choose. In other DAWs it will do all sorts of things not available in Sonar. Its not the MC that is lacking its real support from CW. Also its still being sold.
i bolded the pertinent point for ya, craig knew what i meant ;-)
sstteerreeoo ffllllaanngge
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/02 10:40:32
(permalink)
200bpm Michelle911 asks if Sonar supports Hypercontrol, and the forum "experts" (apologists) go on to explain that its problematic, not something that you should want, and that Sonar's ACT functionality already does this.I have just tried to explain why Hypercontrol is not something you can support. The missed part is Hypercontrol itself. The chain is not "SONAR->(plug-in)->Hypercontrol->Device", it is "SONAR->Hypercontrol->Device".And I have thought that is informative... I "apologies" if that make no sense
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
John
Forum Host
- Total Posts : 30467
- Joined: 2003/11/06 11:53:17
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/02 10:40:50
(permalink)
lawp
John
lawp
in response to the subject/question, my speculation is "no" as even MCU has been abandoned/made open source, which makes me think proprietary controller support is not a high priority
I'm not sure what you mean. MC support has not been abandon. Nor is there anything proprietary about it. It is the one everyone uses for compatibility. If a CS is not supported by a DAW it will have an MC mode.
mcu needed a handshake fix; the code has been released as open source, and a user made available a fixed version; cakewalk have done no further development themselves; this is why i used the term "abandoned" with respect to support - how would you otherwise describe it?
Abandoned implies Mackie has. CW just hasn't updated their support. Thats how I would have said it. Steinberg made the Huston and it is abandoned. CW had Peavey make the Studio Mix and it is abandoned. Mackie is still making the Mackie Control and its still being sold. Its a current product.
|
azslow3
Max Output Level: -42.5 dBFS
- Total Posts : 3297
- Joined: 2012/06/22 19:27:51
- Location: Germany
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/02 10:53:47
(permalink)
John
Actually its a very complete protocol. It came that way from the Logic Control. Each DAW developer is free to implement its features as they choose. In other DAWs it will do all sorts of things not available in Sonar. Its not the MC that is lacking its real support from CW. Also its still being sold.
Actually it is very simple protocol... and that is DAW developer who makes it provide the (whole) functionality you see. I am finalizing the next version of my plug-in. And that version support Logic Control protocol bricks. Everyone can try to be the "DAW developer" in discussed context, crash curse for required "programming skills" is included into documentation...
Sonar 8LE -> Platinum infinity, REAPER, Windows 10 pro GA-EP35-DS3L, E7500, 4GB, GTX 1050 Ti, 2x500GB RME Babyface Pro (M-Audio Audiophile Firewire/410, VS-20), Kawai CN43, TD-11, Roland A500S, Akai MPK Mini, Keystation Pro, etc. www.azslow.com - Control Surface Integration Platform for SONAR, ReaCWP, AOSC and other accessibility tools
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/02 11:11:26
(permalink)
200bpm
Michelle911 asks if Sonar supports Hypercontrol, and the forum "experts" (apologists) go on to explain that its problematic, not something that you should want, and that Sonar's ACT functionality already does this.
Please feel free to point out anything factually incorrect in this thread; experts become experts by being open to updating their knowledge when presented with new data (as long as it's accurate). BTW I don't recall anyone saying that ACT does what Hypercontrol does. It has been presented in this thread as an alternative. I specifically said it did anything the original Hypercontrol (not AIR Hypercontrol, which is bi-directional instead of unidirectional) could do. This is correct. Both map MIDI controllers to parameters. I also included a link for further study.
|
Anderton
Max Output Level: 0 dBFS
- Total Posts : 14070
- Joined: 2003/11/06 14:02:03
- Status: offline
Re: does anyone know if sonar will eventually support hypercontrol
2014/12/02 14:25:07
(permalink)
lawp
"tight" is also subjective ;-)
my idea of "tight" is how my apc40 works with ableton live :-)
I thought the APC40 was brilliant when it came out...still do. I even got an APC20 to serve as a "sidecar" (I need 16 faders with Ableton Live, all my performances were originally set up for the Peavey PC1600). Don't know if you've tried the Push controller yet, but IMHO it takes the whole concept one level higher.
|