doublling vocals vst

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speedtom
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2013/05/23 07:34:49 (permalink)

doublling vocals vst

  which vst do you use for doubling vocals, or make them sound fatter? I recently downloaded izotope nectar, this is quite pricey, but the vocals doubling section is great. is there anything like that available as a solo vst, maybe cheap or for free? thanks!

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    Jimbo21
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/23 08:01:11 (permalink)
    I think the VX Vocal strip in Sonar has a good doubler section. Not sure if it's in Studio but is in Producer. The Waves Doubler is what I use most often but is a little pricey.

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    Guitarhacker
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/23 08:07:04 (permalink)
    I don't use a VST. Take the time to learn how to do this the right way. 

    It sounds better.  And... it costs nothing but the time needed to do it. 

    My basic approach is to record the lead vocal into 3 tracks with 3 different takes. The idea is to get the 3 takes as close to perfect with each other as is possible.  Pay attention to the start and especially the ending of words with the "S" sound in them and at the end of the word.  vocal phrasing should be dead on. 

    Listen to some of the Beatles material. It's said that Paul & John would spend days just working on the vocals to get them perfect. they used this method of doubling. 

    Once the tracks are recorded..... pick one as the main track. Use Melodyne or VVocal if you have it to get that track on pitch. 

    Now I take the other 2 tracks and lower their levels to -10db up to about -20db under the main track. I pan them off center..... one goes Right the other Left by 50% or more depending on taste. Usually between 50% to 80%. 

    When the vox bus is solo, you can hear the lower panned tracks fairly well. BUT... when you add the music to the mix, the lower panned tracks tend to disappear to the ear, but the fatness and width they add to the main vox remains. 

    I use this very technique on most of my songs now. On my site, "Missing Person (2012)" has, if I recall, 8 or 10 vocal tracks. Each main vox has 2 panned lower tracks and there are harmonies as well for each. 

    I would experiment with learning the technique to do it the right way as opposed to using a short cut and trying to do this with a VST.   Some folks try to take a short cut on the tracks too, bu cloning them and nudging them slightly. I would only recommend that if it was impossible to get the singer back to retrack the 2 other tracks.  A clean and distinct original track is the best way to do the doubling. 

    now.... have fun.... 

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    #3
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/23 09:22:34 (permalink)
    I agree with everything Herb has written.

    There is NO substitute for the real thing.

    Every time I've tried to fake it, it sounds just that - fakery, thin & robotic.

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    MarioD
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/23 09:28:18 (permalink)

    Guitarhacker’s suggestion is the best route to take if possible. His suggestion about nudging is a good one as he says if you can’t get the singer back. To add to the can’t get the singer back here are a couple of other suggestions that have worked for me:

    Clone the vocal track twice, detune one down a couple of cents, detune the other up a couple of cents then pan them hard left and right.  You can also nudge these tracks if you want.

    Another option is to add a chorus to the solo vocal track but add just a tad of chorus effect. You want to add just enough chorus to fatten the track.

    Good luck.



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    #5
    bitflipper
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/23 09:52:49 (permalink)
    Herb's right: sing it twice. It's not just a little better, it's a LOT better. 

    Edit the doubled part if necessary to tighten it up with the main vocal, either by splitting and nudging clips or by using AudioSnap.

    The industry standard for faking it with a VST is Waves' Doubler. Don't bother, it sucks. There are lots of other plugins with "doubling" features, including some freebies. They suck even worse.



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    #6
    speedtom
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/23 10:08:42 (permalink)
    Dear all, thanks for your suggestions! I am aware of the technique Herb was mentioned - I agree, it is the best IF the vocal tracks are pretty much identical sung. Still, any suggestions for a vst? Just to see how fake it sounds ;-) By the way, Studio does not have VX vocal strip...

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    #7
    speedtom
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/23 10:16:14 (permalink)
    Sorry bitflipper, I have overlooked your post...Waves Doubler? I will check that out, just for the fun of it...

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    konradh
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/23 12:28:23 (permalink)
    The Vocal Strip is a good effect but it does not sound like two people.
     
    I use an external TC Helicon VoiceWorks Plus if I don't record the vocal twice.  I have also copied the wave to another track and shifted it in time and pitche using V-Vocal or Melodyne--but you have to be careful with that so you don't comb filter. 
     
    If someone made a great doubler VST, I would buy it instantly.
     
    EZMIX 2 has a couple of widening presets but they are subtle.

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    #9
    CJaysMusic
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/24 11:28:36 (permalink)
    I love using Melodyne for doubling vocals when you cannot record a double, tripling, quadrupling and Quintilian vocal tracks. I also use an outboard effect at times,  Digitech VL Pro


    If someone made a great doubler VST



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    #10
    Bristol_Jonesey
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/24 17:02:13 (permalink)
    The ideal vst would be one which alters, in a fairly random order, pitch, timing & timbre, and only by enough to ensure it simply doesn't sound badly sung whilst avoiding phase problems during playback.

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    Studious
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/24 20:24:28 (permalink)
    Try Channel Tools! Don't add directly to the vocal track, rather, send the vocal track to a bus with Channel Tools, so you can still have the "dry" vocal in the middle and control width/heft via the send level.
     
    Start with the "increase width" preset, and mess with the right channel's delay time to range from fattening/widening (under ~ 25ms) to doubling (over 25ms, but not too much over).
     
    (If you ever add Channel Tools directly to a track, make sure the track's Interleave = stereo, otherwise it will have no effect)
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    Jimbo21
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/24 21:37:53 (permalink)
    One of Dave Pensado's "In the Lair" vids shows him using the Waves Doubler and automating the delay and pitch parameters basically randomly to simulate another vocal take where the doubled part changes pitch a few cents at a time is delayed likewise. Haven't tried it though.

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    chuckebaby
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/24 22:03:02 (permalink)
    you might try to venture in the way of nudging my friend.
    its one of the best kept secrets in audio.

    clone the track then either zoom in real close and shift the cloned track a very small amount or use the nudge feature.
    try nudge 2 twice and see the results.
    no vst needed here. you'll see its like magic and sure to fatten up any skinny vocal

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    Dude Ivey
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/24 22:50:34 (permalink)
    Doing more than one take should always  be the first choice. If thats not an option, try what Charlie said. Its free, u dont have to download anything so, why not?

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    daveny5
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/25 09:05:28 (permalink)
    Seems to me that a lot of people want shortcuts to everything and don't want to put in the time to do it right. 

    Beatles recording engineer Geoff Emerick said in a recent interview that he was working on a track for a Sgt Peppers reconstruction recording with the Kaiser Chiefs and they were working on a rhythm track for "Getting Better" and it wasn't sounding too good and the lead guy said that they usually do 3 or 4 takes and the Pro Tools operator sticks it together. Geoff had them do it another 21 times and they got it perfect. Another group called The Magic Numbers (I never heard of either of these groups) had 2 girls singing harmony on "She's Leaving Home" and he told them they weren't starting and finishing the words together. They told him they usually record one vocal at a time and the Pro Tools guy would stick them together. Geoff spent another 5 hours coaching them to get it right and at the end the singers were in tears at how good it sounded. 

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    #16
    bitflipper
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/25 09:17:39 (permalink)
    Well said, Dave!


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    NW Smith
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    Re:doublling vocals vst 2013/05/25 10:18:04 (permalink)
    There's a free VST called ADT (Google it.) But I agree with the 2 Daves - you'll get the best results by actually recording 2 vocals.

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