Helpful Replydriving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips

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Tezza1971
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2013/02/20 08:00:52 (permalink)

driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips

For Music Creator 6... Is it possible to have the notes from one midi track be the input to several other synth tracks? Basically I want to create layers of instruments all playing the same notes. I have no problems getting multiple synth tracks to be played by the same midi hardware input, but the same cannot be said for midi notes from a clip in a midi track.
post edited by Tezza1971 - 2013/02/20 08:02:00
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Guitarhacker
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/20 08:12:22 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Welcome Tezza, 

I think you can do this.... if not one way, certainly another.  In the midi source track (with the notes in it)... I would have to see if it is possible to assign the source to multiple synths.....


BUT... this would work>>>>  simply clone the source track. This makes a duplicate of the original.... clone it or copy and paste to a new track as many times as you wish.... and then simply insert a new synth for each clone/copy setting up the routing for each synth. This<i think would be the preferred way since if any changes are made to the source for a given synth, it would not affect the others. 


cloning will copy the original synth if you're not paying attention to the clone settings. 
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2013/02/20 08:13:48

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Beagle
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/20 09:17:30 (permalink)
Tezza, this is easily done with a drum map.  you can set up a drum map to output to multiple softsynths.

see my website (in my signature) and go to the cakewalk help files and look for info on how to set up a drum map.

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Tezza1971
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/20 12:00:17 (permalink)
  Hi gh, as helpful as it sounds, I had already thought about duplicating tracks/clips but then that will be a nightmare to maintain/edit - would really get in the way of the creative process and just cause bugs (because I made a change and missed a spot when replicating the change through all the copies). Thanks anyway.

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Tezza1971
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/20 12:04:32 (permalink)
Hi Beagle.... I just spent hours trying to make head/tail of the drum mapping thing and it's done my head in. Anything but easy.. Also, spent some time trying to find the info on your website and was unsuccessful. I tried installing a midi loopback device which should have worked only you can't loopback from within the same application (instead of routing the signal, it feeds it back on itself). I think I've spent more than half a day trying to figure this out and have failed miserably. It's pissing me off. There HAS to be a way to do it.

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Tezza1971
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/20 12:17:14 (permalink)
Would be good if you could stack outputs the way you can stack sends :/

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57Gregy
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/20 12:54:03 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Welcome to the forum.
When you Insert a soft synth, there is a box you can check to 'Enable MIDI Output'.
Theoretically, you can check that box and have the synth output the MIDI data to another MIDI track connected to a different soft synth and using a different patch.
You could (again, theoretically) have several synths outputting the same MIDI data and making different noises.
I couldn't get it to work on this new computer with my old program, though. I've never tried it on my music computer, but you can give it a shot.

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Beagle
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/20 16:22:50 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
I'll try to give you a direct link to the drum map tutorial when I get home (I can't get to my own website from work!)

http://soundcloud.com/beaglesound/sets/featured-songs-1
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Tezza1971
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/20 18:49:35 (permalink)
Thanks Beagle. I appreciate your help and your patience. I will have another look again as well in the meantime. Greg wrote "When you Insert a soft synth, there is a box you can check to 'Enable MIDI Output'. Theoretically, you can check that box and have the synth output the MIDI data to another MIDI track connected to a different soft synth and using a different patch." Good idea Greg. I have tried this suggestion and it does not work. I have this idea that it might if the soft-synth had a "midi through" option. I vaguely remember seeing something like that on a synth. Might see if I can find such a synth to see if that will work. However I will need a solution that works with all of them. You CAN set a soft-synth channel to source another soft-synth, but no MIDI is coming through. I set up soft synth "synth1" with the MIDI output option. I set up soft synth "synth2". Each will accept notes and play normally. I went to the INPUT selector of synth2 and chose "synth1 > MIDI Omni" Then I selected synth1 and played some midi notes on my controller. Synth1 responded but synth2 did not.
post edited by Tezza1971 - 2013/02/20 18:52:19

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Tezza1971
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/20 18:53:30 (permalink)
ps. how to stop this forum application from collapsing formatted text into one paragraph? :/

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57Gregy
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/20 21:02:50 (permalink)
Tezza1971


ps. how to stop this forum application from collapsing formatted text into one paragraph? :/
This forum software doesn't play well with some browsers, notably various Firefox versions.
I'm using IE 8. Others use IE 9, Chrome, and older Firefox editions.
 

Greg 
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RobertB
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/20 23:47:45 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Tezza1971


 Basically I want to create layers of instruments all playing the same notes.  


This is the clincher. Ordinarily, we would not want to do this, but occasionally, we might.
There is a way, and the cloning idea was very close.

First, lets take a quick look at some of the stuff that isn't working for you.
"Enable MIDI Output" is a special scenario, and most synths do not support it.
The only time I've really seen it in use was a VSt that created patterns from notes in the track, and spit those patterns out to a synth on another track.
The drum map can send individual notes to different synths, but it cannot send all notes to multiple synths.

Back to the original question.
Clearly, you cannot send the output of one MIDI track to several synths.
Copy/Paste will do what you want, but you MUST click one very important option:

Link to Original Clip(s).


Select and copy the clip in your original MIDI track. Nothing special yet.
The key is in the Paste menu.
I don't have MC6, so I'm not sure which of two variations you will see.

Now, Paste the clip into another MIDI track.
You may see only Paste, or you may also see Paste Special.
If you see Paste Special, the linking option will be there.
Otherwise, it will be under Paste.
In either case, be sure the Link option is checked.

When the clips are linked, they will have a dashed border.
If you edit notes in any linked clip, the change will be reflected in all of the linked clips. 
You will still need a separate MIDI track for each synth, but this approach will allow you to simultaneously make the same edit to all of them.
Give this a try. I think you'll like it.

Note: When learning a new procedure, I highly recommend lots of "Save As" at critical steps. It makes it easy to go back if you get tangled up.


post edited by RobertB - 2013/02/21 23:31:57

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Tezza1971
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/21 23:55:59 (permalink)
Thanks guys, you are all so helpful. Robert B, thanks for the info, with some of your tips I was able to work something out so ...ITS WORKING!... I ended up using the CLONE TRACKS ... CT gives you the option of selecting what you want to clone, I deselected everything except "Clone Events" and I also selected "Link to Original Clips"... Things to remember... clone only pure MIDI tracks.... add the desired soft synths that you want as destinations (in my case there were 4)... add them WITHOUT creating tracks at the same time... then go and add audio tracks separately (one for each synth). Set the source for each audio track to each synth (I set destination to master). Go to each midi track and set the destination to each soft synth... DONE! I will do a youtube screen tutorial for this later.... It's been an epic battle for a newbie LOL! Thanks again for all your help everyone.

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RobertB
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/22 00:39:59 (permalink)
Nice.
I see what you did, and that looks like a very elegant solution.
Not bad for a rookie. You're going to do fine with this stuff.
Glad to help.

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Tezza1971
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/22 05:31:47 (permalink)
Without being an expert, I would estimate that in an ideal world, you can set the input of a track to the output of any other track - be it [audio to audio] or [midi to midi]. Had that been the case, I would only need one midi source rather than "clones" cluttering up the space on my screen. Small price to pay for what it essentially ridiculously great value for money software. They have a special on at the moment and it was even cheaper than the normally tiny price. So I'm not complaining :) One thing that remains a mystery to me is that there seems to be 3 track types. MIDI I understand, Audio I understand, but there is this thing referred to as a "simple instrument track" where the midi source can be set and the audio output can be set. In the mixing console, it shows up as a typical audio track (except the source is midi). There doesn't seem to be any way to access or change the instrument itself. I'm gonna have to start using a different browser so that all my text doesn't keep getting compacted.

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Guitarhacker
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/22 08:07:19 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
I'm guessing cake did not make that function work because as Robert mentioned, it's something that people rarely do.  I can't think of one single time I have used that method. 

I clone tracks on rare occasions but it's not normally to do what you are doing. I sometimes clone audio vocal tracks to work on them in melodyne .... in case I screw up royally, I still have the original to fall back on. I delete the original tracks when I finish and am satisfied. 

I believe a simple instrument track is just what it says. Instead of having one midi and one audio track linked with the synth, you only see the midi track and the audio track is essentially hidden.... you rarely ever do anything with the audio track anyway, so that is a way to "declutter" the screen. Being "old school" I still like to see both tracks of a synth.... so I don't use the simple instrument tracks very often.

You can also hide and unhide tracks. Both in console and track view. 

I general don't hide tracks, I will make them as small as I can if I don't need them, but I always do want to see them.  Out of sight, out of mind and I don't want to forget a track. Besides, nothing is as irritating as working on a mix and hearing something but not "seeing" where it's coming from. 

I will only hide a track if it's muted and I don't think I will need it in the mix..... just temporary until I finish the project mix, then I unhide it and delete it from the project. 

Always remember..... "delete" isn't always permanent.... it just seems that way. 
post edited by Guitarhacker - 2013/02/22 08:10:16

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RobertB
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/22 22:49:23 (permalink) ☄ Helpful
Does MC6 support Track Folders?
If so, they are great for keeping your screen tidy, but your tracks are readily available.
I like to keep synth outputs and related MIDI tracks in the same folder. In the case of TTS-1, this can be up to 20 tracks.
That's a lot of screen real estate.
When a folder is collapsed, the tracks are tucked neatly out of the way.

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Tezza1971
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Re:driving multiple midi software synths (on multiple synth tracks) from one track's clips 2013/02/23 01:30:28 (permalink)
Track folders... already been using them :)

MC6 is awesome!

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