Helpful Replydropouts (just started)

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ChewingAluminumFoil
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2017/03/19 22:35:37 (permalink)

dropouts (just started)

Search seems to not work.  Searched using Google and found a lot of stuff that didn't seem to apply. 
 
I use SONAR X1 occasionally with no issues (recently) and it's solid. But the project I'm working on just became unusable because I'm getting audio dropouts every few seconds. I can't record anymore because of the dropouts.
 
Low track count, most muted, few plugs.  I usually have far more tracks and plugs going without a problem.
 
I do have a vocal track I've broken into a couple dozen clips with V-Vocal on them.  But my understanding is V-Vocal renders offline and doesn't really add load during playback.
 
That's the only thing I can think that's a bit unusual about this project.  I tried freezing that track with no apparent difference.  Next to zero disc activity on my box.
 
No recent changes to config, settings, drivers etc.  Any ideas?
 
CAF

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gswitz
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/19 23:14:04 (permalink)
The first thing to do is install latency monitor by resplendence and see if it says your PC is ok.
 
http://www.resplendence.com/latencymon
 
 

StudioCat > I use Windows 10 and Sonar Platinum. I have a touch screen.
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abacab
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/19 23:16:16 (permalink)
Sometimes you have to adjust the size of your audio buffers to allow for what you are doing.  The default does not always work best for all situations.  Small buffer sizes give you the benefit of low latency at a cost of CPU usage. Large buffers take less CPU, but creates longer latency.  You need to find the balance that works for your project and your system.  This applies to all DAWs.

Hopefully you are using a decent dedicated audio interface with low latency ASIO drivers.

For adjusting audio buffers, look at these knowledge base articles:

I'm getting a delay or latency when recording or performing synths

https://www.cakewalk.com/...g-or-performing-synths

Audio Dropouts, Clicks and Pops When Playing and Recording

Audio Driver Latency/Buffer Size Needs to be increased if you are experiencing dropouts in the sense that the audio engine is completely stopping and your Cakewalk software is reporting "DROPOUT" in its Control Bar or Status Bar

https://www.cakewalk.com/...-Playing-and-Recording

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scook
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/19 23:19:15 (permalink)
Muted tracks still must be processed. Try archiving unused tracks. Freezing active tracks is another way to free up resources. By-passing an FX bin (right-click in the FX bin for the option) will remove FX rack from processing. The FX button in Mix module, shortcut E will by-pass all FX bins. Disconnecting synths will unload them from memory. The connections are maintained in the synth tab menu when the browser is docked. When the synth rack is undocked, each synth has a power button to (dis)connect synths.
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ChewingAluminumFoil
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/20 18:19:52 (permalink)
Thanks for the tips.  I didn't realize muted tracks still cost CPU.  I assumed they'd optimize those out.  I did have quite a few muted tracks so maybe that was it.
 
I restarted SONAR, no luck.
 
I restart the PC, things were fine.  No idea.  Sometimes you just have to reboot I guess. I was able to finish the project.
 
CAF
 
P.S. What's a scenario where the DAW needs to process a muted track?  I could maybe see it if it was an input to a sidechain effect...

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scook
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/20 18:50:53 (permalink)
In order for the mute function to be available while the transport is running.
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ChewingAluminumFoil
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/20 18:56:31 (permalink)
Ah ha!  Makes sense.  That was probably a contributing factor as I'd sub-mixed a bunch of stuff and still had the source tracks in the project.
 
CAF

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fresh101
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/21 00:03:21 (permalink)

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Anderton
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/21 03:12:55 (permalink)
ChewingAluminumFoil
Sometimes you just have to reboot I guess. 



I've found re-booting a panacea for a lot of ills with various programs. I think sometimes Windows just gets overloaded with stuff and needs a vacation. Fortunately since computers think in nanoseconds, a re-boot would be like six weeks off for humans 

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robert_e_bone
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/21 14:23:12 (permalink)
Anderton
ChewingAluminumFoil
Sometimes you just have to reboot I guess. 



I've found re-booting a panacea for a lot of ills with various programs. I think sometimes Windows just gets overloaded with stuff and needs a vacation. Fortunately since computers think in nanoseconds, a re-boot would be like six weeks off for humans 


 

Craig - I have done a human reboot, and I've even swapped out some of my aging components, yet I STILL can't solve some nagging audio issues - meaning every time my ex calls, I hear nagging audio, and that's an issue.  hee hee
 
I DO agree that sometimes it just helps things in Windows to do a reboot - though I have no detailed information on exactly WHY that seems to be the case.  I often choose to do so before starting an anticipated lengthy or complex Sonar session.  I think some of that is sort of a long breath for myself too, while waiting for the computer to restart.
 
@chewingaluminumfoil - you might consider adjusting some of the Sonar buffers in Preferences.  I have adjusted mine as follows: Preferences>MIDI>Playback and Recording - Prepare Using nnn Millisecond Buffers - that is adjusted upwards to 500, and Preferences>Audio>Sync and Caching - under File System I have both the Playback I/O and Recording I/O buffer sizes adjusted upwards to 512 kilobytes.
 
In addition, some plugins are not meant to be used during recording, but instead are meant for use during mixing, so you will want to make sure that any plugin you have in place during recording isn't going to cause issues with audio when the ASIO Buffer Size is set to a smaller size for low latency when tracking.  Plugins that either chew up CPU or use Look-Ahead Processing should either be temporarily bypassed during recording, or even swapped out for less consumptive plugins - and then when you have moved on to mixing you can put those more resource-intensive plugins back in, because they work fine when the ASIO Buffer Size is set to a very large value, and when mixing you no longer need to worry about low latency, since you aren't trying to record at that polnt.
 
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ChewingAluminumFoil
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/21 14:32:44 (permalink)
Sheesh, now SONAR lost all my V-Vocal fiddlings.  This project is way more difficult than usual. I am not a regular SONAR user, I just do these hit-and-run projects.
 
CAF

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Cactus Music
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/21 14:41:47 (permalink)
Been awhile but I think you run V Vocal, fix the track and then bounce it. 
Especially back in X1 days V  vocal was a buggy app and many a post could be found complaining. 

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ChewingAluminumFoil
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/21 14:44:40 (permalink)
Yeah, I gather SONAR doesn't even ship with V-Vocal anymore.  Like I said, I'm a very occasional user so I'm not really motivated to try to keep up with the latest, but that does leave me wrestling with last century's bugs.
 
CAF

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glennstanton
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/21 16:02:08 (permalink)
after updates, or before starting a project, i reboot my system. this resets the memory pools and services. many many applications, services, etc can leave holes in memory resulting in fragmented memory locations, pointers to bad memory space, etc which can disrupt the operations. very often you see this in Java where the garbage collection is trying to catch up and/or developers went around the JVM to directly access objects leaving holes etc. if you have SSD drives, the boot process could be under a minute and you will find much more happiness...

-- Glenn
 
 
 
 
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ChewingAluminumFoil
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/21 16:10:39 (permalink)
Thanks for your help, guys.  My last rough mix may have been the final. SONAR has totally lost its mind about the V-Vocal stuff.  I hear the correction but the editor shows no changes.  And in some cases it's showing 3 clips in the track view and it won't so "Remove V-Vocal."
 
I'm either done or I'll wrestle with a bit more tonight, we'll see.
 
CAF

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ChewingAluminumFoil
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/21 19:16:59 (permalink)
One last question for you folks.  Do any of you recall how V-Vocal edits were stored?  Like I said, SONAR seems to find the rendered V-Vocal clips but not the source edits.  I hear the pitch correction happening until I open the clip, and then I'm presented with a clip with no edits and no audible correction.
 
If these are in separate files with vaguely human-readable names I'd like to go see if I can help SONAR get sane again.  Or is stuff also stored in the project file? 
 
It's pretty messed up. What do I have to lose?
 
CAF

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robert_e_bone
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/21 19:42:52 (permalink)
I really hadn't done more with V-Vocal than to just test it out on some vocal tracks.
 
It was always pretty buggy - though my recollections are that folks generally had found that it was best to do little bits of edits at a time with V-Vocal, than to go ahead and bounce them to 'print' them, as having too many active V-Vocal edits at a time, in a given project, was a good way to start causing problems and crashes.
 
Melodyne is the replacement that now ships with Platinum, and it is WAY more stable, in my opinion, as is Platinum versus X1, X2, or even X3.
 
But - yeah - if you are having V-Vocal nightmares, try doing smaller edit chunks at a time, and when you are happy with them, bounce them.  That seemed to help me, as well as others, in my recollection.
 
Bob Bone
 

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pwalpwal
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/21 21:08:48 (permalink)
ChewingAluminumFoil
One last question for you folks.  Do any of you recall how V-Vocal edits were stored?  Like I said, SONAR seems to find the rendered V-Vocal clips but not the source edits.  I hear the pitch correction happening until I open the clip, and then I'm presented with a clip with no edits and no audible correction.
 
If these are in separate files with vaguely human-readable names I'd like to go see if I can help SONAR get sane again.  Or is stuff also stored in the project file? 
 
It's pretty messed up. What do I have to lose?
 
CAF


i had a quick google and couldn't find an answer, and don't have it installed but if you make a minimal test project, do the vvocal thing, save & exit, then examine the output, cwp, audio folder etc, any extra files in there? vv may also be saving its data somewhere other than the cw project folders
good luck!

just a sec

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abacab
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/21 22:23:45 (permalink) ☄ Helpfulby pwalpwal 2017/03/22 13:34:58
pwalpwal
ChewingAluminumFoil
One last question for you folks.  Do any of you recall how V-Vocal edits were stored?  Like I said, SONAR seems to find the rendered V-Vocal clips but not the source edits.  I hear the pitch correction happening until I open the clip, and then I'm presented with a clip with no edits and no audible correction.
 
If these are in separate files with vaguely human-readable names I'd like to go see if I can help SONAR get sane again.  Or is stuff also stored in the project file? 
 
It's pretty messed up. What do I have to lose?
 
CAF


i had a quick google and couldn't find an answer, and don't have it installed but if you make a minimal test project, do the vvocal thing, save & exit, then examine the output, cwp, audio folder etc, any extra files in there? vv may also be saving its data somewhere other than the cw project folders
good luck!




How to Easily View Recently Modified Files in Windows
https://www.howtogeek.com...fied-files-in-windows/

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pwalpwal
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Re: dropouts (just started) 2017/03/22 13:36:22 (permalink)
i think sysinternals includes a file/hd monitor also
 
but maybe someone from cakewalk could save all the investigation work and just tell us!!

just a sec

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