paulo
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dual boot OS - RESOLVED
Anybody using dual boot systems here ? I was planning on keeping my trusty old XP 32 bit system and buying a new W7 64bit to run alongside it as I have VST's that I use all the time that are 32bit only that I have been told "may or may not work" in 64bit and some other stuff that I use all the time that I presume needs XP as they will not even install/work on my Vista 32 laptop . I've made the assumption here that there some kind of readily available /reasonably priced gadget to enable me to switch the monitors between systems without unplugging them each time. However, as it now seems like my DAW needs reasonably major surgery, I have to decide whether to stick to plan A (ie just rebuild it as XP32 and proceed with plan A) or go a stage further and build a W7 64 system with a dual boot so I can still have XP32 within that. Some may say now is the time to embrace 64bit and ditch the old stuff that can't be made to work, but that isn't gonna happen, so does anyone have any experience of dual boot systems ? What are the pitfalls etc... ? How does it actually work when you switch on ? (yes I am that much of an ignoramus !) Does it ask which OS you want or does it default to one and then you have to re-boot onto the other ? A little research has told me that it is better to have seperate HD's for each OS, which would be fine, but again, how does that work when you power up? I'm also assuming here that it is possibe to open a cwp created in 64bt system on the 32 bit, do my 32 bit stuff, bounce it to audio, save and then still be good to go in 64bit. (the files are all stored on an extrnal HD which could be plugged in to either system as req'd). I'm also assuming that 64bit system will be able to open existing 32 bit projects ? All this is with 8.53PE BTW, but maybe X2 as an when. Part of me is already saying...don't go there, fix the other one up then buy the new 64bit system as you planned and just have both, but I'm a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it type" so I probably would say that. Trouble is that it is broke, so I have to decide how to fix it......
EDIT: Thanks again to those who responded.
post edited by paulo - 2012/08/09 16:10:52
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craigb
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 10:28:15
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Check out the Computers section, I think a few people are doing this (I asked about it once).
Time for all of you to head over to Beyond My DAW!
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Mesh
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 11:35:08
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Hi Paulo,
I don't have a 64bit system, but in my dual boot (OS) before getting into Windows, I have to choose whether to go into XP or Vista (which are on seperate HD's).
Hopefully someone with both platforms could chime in on the functionality of a 64bit/32bit system and how they run together.
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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paulo
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 11:46:06
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craigb
Check out the Computers section, I think a few people are doing this (I asked about it once).
Thanks, I will. I put it here becasue there are usually more people here than there and I need to make a decision quite soon if I'm not to be DAW less for what will feel like eternity ! I did do a topic search before I posted this, but not much came up really.
post edited by paulo - 2012/08/08 12:06:15
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bapu
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 11:50:23
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Jonbouy does it. WRT to 32bit VSTs "may or may not work", You can install 32bit SONAR and 64bit SONAR on Win7. If a 32bit plug will not work in 64bit SONAR (via bitbridge or jbridge) you can always run 32bit SOANR and you will be (for all intents and purposes) running as if you were in XP. I've yet to have a 32bit only plug not work in 64bit SONAR via bitbridge. YMMV. In fact, I mixed THIS SONG in 64bit SOANR with a 32bit only drum VSTi (METAL 1 by bluenoise).
post edited by bapu - 2012/08/08 11:54:00
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paulo
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 11:53:21
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Mesh
Hi Paulo,
I don't have a 64bit system, but in my dual boot (OS) before getting into Windows, I have to choose whether to go into XP or Vista (which are on seperate HD's).
Hopefully someone with both platforms could chime in on the functionality of a 64bit/32bit system and how they run together.
Thanks Mesh, that's what I was hoping would happen, so at least that's good couldn't be doing with having to go into one to get to the other all the time. I think seperate HDs for each OS would be the best way to go, but I have read a few things elsewhere that they still don't always play together nicely, so any information/experience about that from any users here would be really helpful. BTW didn't hear anything further today. I called the shop when I got in, but no reply. Turns out they are closed Wed PM, which would have been ok if he hadn't told me he would get back to me Wed PM. 
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 11:57:30
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Bapu has the right solution, at least in my opinion.
There's absolutely no need to go dual boot & installing XP, just install Win7, followed by Sonar 64 AND 32 bit and you'll be good to go.
This is exactly the way I've got mine set up because I have a few vst's that are 32 bit only and don't like being bridged.
So I load up 32bit sonar, do whatever processing I want, then freeze the vst so I can continue the project in 64 bit
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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bapu
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 12:02:01
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Bristol_Jonesey
This is exactly the way I've got mine set up because I have a few vst's that are 32 bit only and don't like being bridged.
So I load up 32bit sonar, do whatever processing I want, then freeze the vst so I can continue the project in 64 bit
Yeah, forgot to mention the freezing part. Again, I only have about 8 very low usage 32bit only plugs and have not yet needed to 32bit SONAR, but you never know. My remaining high usage 32bit only (UAD & IK Multimedia) work just fine in 64bit SONAR bitbridged. Funny thing... I bought jbridge and have never had to use it.
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bapu
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 12:03:47
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Now, having said all that.
Outside of the DAW software, you may have other non-music related programs that simply will not install in Win 7. There would be a valid reason for dual boot computer.
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Bristol_Jonesey
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 12:14:48
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Like your copy of Quake III Arena from 1999
CbB, Platinum, 64 bit throughoutCustom built i7 3930, 32Gb RAM, 2 x 1Tb Internal HDD, 1 x 1TB system SSD (Win 7), 1 x 500Gb system SSD (Win 10), 2 x 1Tb External HDD's, Dual boot Win 7 & Win 10 64 Bit, Saffire Pro 26, ISA One, Adam P11A,
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paulo
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 12:15:45
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bapu
Now, having said all that.
Outside of the DAW software, you may have other non-music related programs that simply will not install in Win 7. There would be a valid reason for dual boot computer.
That's what I was just about to say to your previous reply - you're too quick for me ! Yeah, Sonar-wise I get that, but some of the other stuff is outside of that environment and will not work that way, doesn't evwn work in Vista 32 bit, so I guess must require XP. I have also read somwhere that there is an "XP mode" in W7, but will that mean everything will work ? I'm naturally cynical and it will be a bit late to find out once it's built, so I guess the question is dual boot or two pc's ? Taking cost out of the equation for the moment, the advantage of two as I see it is that if one goes down for some reason, at least from a DAW perspective, I have a back up. Nice shameless plug BTW ! I didn't expect even you to manage that. I guess Herb will be along soon too ;)
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paulo
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 12:19:06
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Bristol_Jonesey
Bapu has the right solution, at least in my opinion.
There's absolutely no need to go dual boot & installing XP, just install Win7, followed by Sonar 64 AND 32 bit and you'll be good to go.
This is exactly the way I've got mine set up because I have a few vst's that are 32 bit only and don't like being bridged.
So I load up 32bit sonar, do whatever processing I want, then freeze the vst so I can continue the project in 64 bit
Thanks - yeah I hear ya there, but unfortunately it's not just a vst issue. I have other things I still want to use that seem to require XP as they will not even work in my vista 32 laptop.
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Beagle
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 13:19:28
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any 32bit DX FX or DXI's will not work on a 64bit OS at all, bridge or no bridge.
the sonitus stuff has been updated as long as you have a sonar version 8 or later (I think that's correct, I might be wrong on the exact version it came out) then you have the updated 64bit DX FX for sonitus.
if you're using the really old cakewalk FX (which are free for download) from sonar 7 and below (again, I could be wrong about the exact version) then those won't work at all on a 64bit OS in either 32bit Sonar or 64bit sonar.
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bapu
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 13:40:28
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Beagle
if you're using the really old cakewalk FX (which are free for download) from sonar 7 and below (again, I could be wrong about the exact version) then those won't work at all on a 64bit OS in either 32bit Sonar or 64bit sonar. Unless I'm misunderstanding you I'll have to say not true. I can open the FX plugs (free stuff from Cake) in 32bit SONAR under 64bit Win 7. 
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Beagle
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 13:45:18
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nope, not those. those are the updated ones. I'm talking about the older DX ones.
they had a light brown face and ugly GUI controls
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bapu
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 13:46:17
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Beagle
nope, not those. those are the updated ones. I'm talking about the older DX ones.
they had a light brown face and ugly GUI controls
Ah So (said the Chinaman  )
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paulo
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 14:02:20
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Beagle
any 32bit DX FX or DXI's will not work on a 64bit OS at all, bridge or no bridge.
the sonitus stuff has been updated as long as you have a sonar version 8 or later (I think that's correct, I might be wrong on the exact version it came out) then you have the updated 64bit DX FX for sonitus.
if you're using the really old cakewalk FX (which are free for download) from sonar 7 and below (again, I could be wrong about the exact version) then those won't work at all on a 64bit OS in either 32bit Sonar or 64bit sonar.
Thanks Beagle - I didn't know that, but it won't be an issue for me.
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Beagle
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 14:05:50
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for most people, it's not an issue. but I was helping a poor soul in the MC forum who had MC4 (based on sonar 6) and was upgrading his computer and all of his 100+ projects had those 32bit DX FX in them...
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bapu
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 14:08:24
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Beagle
for most people, it's not an issue. but I was helping a poor soul in the MC forum who had MC4 (based on sonar 6) and was upgrading his computer and all of his 100+ projects had those 32bit DX FX in them...
I imagine the "poor souls" here (i.e. Mooch, Daryl, Bapu) could use some help too?
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Mesh
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 14:13:04
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bapu
Beagle
for most people, it's not an issue. but I was helping a poor soul in the MC forum who had MC4 (based on sonar 6) and was upgrading his computer and all of his 100+ projects had those 32bit DX FX in them...
I imagine the "poor souls" here (i.e. Mooch, Daryl, Bapu) could use some help too?
We're not even in the same league as those "poor souls".....the closest we can come to a Bit is a BeagleByte.
Platinum Gaming DAW: AsRock Z77 Overclock FormulaI7 3770k @ 4.5GHz : 16GB RAM G.Skill Ripjaws X 250GB OS SSD : 3TB HDD : 1TB Sample HDDWin 10 Pro x 64 : NH-D14 CPU Cooler HIS IceQ 2GB HD 7870Focusrite Scarlett 2i4The_Forum_Monkeys
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Beagle
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 14:16:50
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bapu
Beagle
for most people, it's not an issue. but I was helping a poor soul in the MC forum who had MC4 (based on sonar 6) and was upgrading his computer and all of his 100+ projects had those 32bit DX FX in them...
I imagine the "poor souls" here (i.e. Mooch, Daryl, Bapu) could use some help too?
I'm not qualified for that kind of help...
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bapu
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 14:17:44
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Beagle
bapu
Beagle
for most people, it's not an issue. but I was helping a poor soul in the MC forum who had MC4 (based on sonar 6) and was upgrading his computer and all of his 100+ projects had those 32bit DX FX in them...
I imagine the "poor souls" here (i.e. Mooch, Daryl, Bapu) could use some help too?
I'm not qualified for that kind of help...
A man pooch must know his limitations to be truly free.
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Beagle
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 14:20:26
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I Am always free... 
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slartabartfast
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 14:29:34
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also read somwhere that there is an "XP mode" in W7, but will that mean everything will work ? XP mode in Windows7 Professional is a fully licensed version of XP (32 bit only) that runs in emulation mode under Windows7, basically by translating system calls etc. from Windows XP programs into actions in Win 7. The idea is to allow programs, drivers etc. that are designed to work under XP to run in a virtual machine that is in turn running under Windows 7 Pro, and it will allow a lot of things that will not run under Windows 7 to do so. There is some considerable overhead from that process, and it is probably not advisable to depend on that virtual machine in real-time audio processing. A dual boot is a fully independent installation of XP and Windows 7 on the same machine and possibly on the same drive but on separate partitions. When one is running, the other is not and there is no interference between the two systems except for a problem with damage to the restore points saved by the two systems if they are not properly located/managed. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185 You would need a license for both OS's, and could not use an upgrade version of Windows 7 as part of the dual boot configuration without violating the license. In addition without some care, the installation of Win 7 upgrade version will destroy an existing XP installation and void its activation. A simpler but slightly more expensive solution for a desktop (and maybe a few laptops with removable drives) is to use a drive dock to swap two physical drives with a separate OS installed on each.
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paulo
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 14:35:50
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Beagle
for most people, it's not an issue. but I was helping a poor soul in the MC forum who had MC4 (based on sonar 6) and was upgrading his computer and all of his 100+ projects had those 32bit DX FX in them...
Ahh man that sucks ! It's one thing I've always hated about new versions of anything. I've had several Yamaha keyboards over the years and every time I upgraded, for all the good stuff, they always took away something I used a lot. One of them was a little joystick thing they called "vector" which allowed you to combine up to four sounds across the whole keyboard at once and vary how much you heard of each one you heard on the fly just my moving the stick. It was only a low end keyboard too, but I never saw it again on any of the other "improved" high end ones.
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Moshkiae
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 14:47:53
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paulo
Anybody using dual boot systems here ? I was planning on keeping my trusty old XP 32 bit system and buying a new W7 64bit to run alongside it as I have VST's that I use all the time that are 32bit only that I have been told "may or may not work" in 64bit and some other stuff that I use all the time that I presume needs XP as they will not even install/work on my Vista 32 laptop . I've made the assumption here that there some kind of readily available /reasonably priced gadget to enable me to switch the monitors between systems without unplugging them each time.
However, as it now seems like my DAW needs reasonably major surgery, I have to decide whether to stick to plan A (ie just rebuild it as XP32 and proceed with plan A) or go a stage further and build a W7 64 system with a dual boot so I can still have XP32 within that.
Some may say now is the time to embrace 64bit and ditch the old stuff that can't be made to work, but that isn't gonna happen, so does anyone have any experience of dual boot systems ? What are the pitfalls etc... ? How does it actually work when you switch on ? (yes I am that much of an ignoramus !) Does it ask which OS you want or does it default to one and then you have to re-boot onto the other ? A little research has told me that it is better to have seperate HD's for each OS, which would be fine, but again, how does that work when you power up?
I'm also assuming here that it is possibe to open a cwp created in 64bt system on the 32 bit, do my 32 bit stuff, bounce it to audio, save and then still be good to go in 64bit. (the files are all stored on an extrnal HD which could be plugged in to either system as req'd). I'm also assuming that 64bit system will be able to open existing 32 bit projects ? All this is with 8.53PE BTW, but maybe X2 as an when.
Part of me is already saying...don't go there, fix the other one up then buy the new 64bit system as you planned and just have both, but I'm a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it type" so I probably would say that. Trouble is that it is broke, so I have to decide how to fix it......
Wish my old roomie could answer this for you ... he has fun putting W7 next to the latest MAC and vice versa! ... and you can even play World of Warcraft (for example) on either one, and one time he dual boxed for fun with it! Unffortunately for us, Cisco now has him ... finally!
As a wise Guy once stated from his holy chapala ... none of the hits, none of the time ... prevents you from becoming just another turkey in the middle of all the other turkeys!
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paulo
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Re:dual boot OS
2012/08/08 14:54:42
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slartabartfast
also read somwhere that there is an "XP mode" in W7, but will that mean everything will work ?
XP mode in Windows7 Professional is a fully licensed version of XP (32 bit only) that runs in emulation mode under Windows7, basically by translating system calls etc. from Windows XP programs into actions in Win 7. The idea is to allow programs, drivers etc. that are designed to work under XP to run in a virtual machine that is in turn running under Windows 7 Pro, and it will allow a lot of things that will not run under Windows 7 to do so. There is some considerable overhead from that process, and it is probably not advisable to depend on that virtual machine in real-time audio processing.
A dual boot is a fully independent installation of XP and Windows 7 on the same machine and possibly on the same drive but on separate partitions. When one is running, the other is not and there is no interference between the two systems except for a problem with damage to the restore points saved by the two systems if they are not properly located/managed. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/926185
You would need a license for both OS's, and could not use an upgrade version of Windows 7 as part of the dual boot configuration without violating the license. In addition without some care, the installation of Win 7 upgrade version will destroy an existing XP installation and void its activation.
A simpler but slightly more expensive solution for a desktop (and maybe a few laptops with removable drives) is to use a drive dock to swap two physical drives with a separate OS installed on each.
Thanks slartabartfast (always been intrigued by that name !) Useful info - I'm not entirely clear from reading the linked page if that applies only if both OS are on the same HD or whether it is still the case if they are on separate HD's. ? If I go dual boot, I'm already leaning towards separate HD's anyway. I assumed that with both OS on separate HDs that I would effectively be using a different PC in each OS and one would not affect the other? Is that oversimplifying it ?
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