torerk
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fantom vs
Hello. I am a new user and I have a couple of questions.
First, My fantom vs does not work. If I put in any other soft synth it's ok, but the fantom does not respond to midi, and it does not play if i write in notes in "pianoroll"
I guess it might be an installation error? If so what is the easy way to re-intall it? (I get a bit confused what to install with the software bundeled) I have upgraded to the 8.3.1.
Second, Is there a way to delete a track from the console?
Third, when I press the arm button in effects mode on a track already containing an effect the corresponding track is armed. Wouldent it be safer if the arm buttons worked exclusively for effects in effectsmode?
Fourth, Why is the latency shorter in 48 mode than in 44,1?
Thanks and regards
Torerk
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torerk
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RE: fantom vs
2009/05/28 17:50:12
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Hmm. I got a response from cakewalk, but none of the answers was relevant to the v-studio 700, and obviously that made the answers kind of useless. I have rephraced the questions, pointed out that all questions are based on the use of vs-700r with fantom module and vs-700c. I am waiting for a new reply. The "24/7 mail help" mentioned in some other threads here suddenly doesn't seem quite right with a couple of issues and a two working days reply time for each answer. I guess I'll try the phone...
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Brandon Ryan [Roland]
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RE: fantom vs
2009/05/28 18:50:29
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RE: Fantom Are you sure you have the Fantom MIDI ports enabled in SONAR? RE: deleting a track from 700c To the best of my knowledge there is no way to delete a track from the surface. We may imploement something at some point but it needs to be in such a way that it's not dangerous.  RE: ARM & ACT I guess it depends on how you look at it. I don't think it would be good for a user to have to switch out of ACT mode in order to ARM a track for record or automation. Which begs the question...are you talking about automation arming or record arming? RE: latency 48vs44.1 This is normal and standard on all interfaces that I know of. The higher the sample rate the smaller the latency at any given buffer. Apologies about your cryptic email responses. I don't' have an explanation, but I would suggest to definitely call phone support as you will have priority access as a VS-700 owner.
post edited by Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk] - 2009/05/28 19:08:30
"The sky above the port was the color of television, tuned to a dead channel." WG SONAR Platinum | VS-700 | A-800 PRO | PCAL i7 with SSD running Windows 8 x64 | Samsung 27" LCD @ 1920x1080 | Blue Sky monitors with BMC | All kinds of other stuff
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Grent
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RE: fantom vs
2009/05/29 13:13:41
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ORIGINAL: Brandon Ryan [Cakewalk]
RE: deleting a track from 700c
To the best of my knowledge there is no way to delete a track from the surface. We may imploement something at some point but it needs to be in such a way that it's not dangerous.
Yes, please do !
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Psybazyme
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/19 19:07:11
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Hi guys,
1st post so be a little tolerant of my naivity :o) I've just bought a new VS700 and I'm running 8.5.3. Everything seems fine although if I want to: insert / soft-synth, there is no Fantom VS option as described in the owners manual (everything else described is present). I have managed to play the VS as an 'external hardware device', though I really would like to be able to pull up the editor as a regular plugin for patch editing. The VS also doesn't appear in the plugin manager, can someone please point me in the right direction. Also, is it possible to re-start the synth engine if it crashes or do I need to re-start Sonar.
Many thanks in advance,
J
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Crg
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/19 19:39:44
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Did you put in all the updates and patchs for the Fantom VS? What OS are you using? Mine appears in the plugin manager. Responds to the T-bar and X-ray. You need to post what your equipment and setup is. If you're using the VS700R as your interface and have all the settings correct, you shouldn't see the Fantom VS as an external device.
Please list what is listed in Controllers/ Surfaces, Options-Audio-inputs-outputs, Midi Devices, and what your inputs and outputs in the project using the Fantom VS are.
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Psybazyme
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/20 03:13:59
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Thanks for the quick response Craig, I'm using the VS700R as the interface and running Win7 x64 on a Rain Livebook Pro. I bought the V-studio as the 'SETB' option and Sonar 8.5PE separately since the bundle wasn't in stock locally. As for updates and patches for the VS, I didn't realise there were any, I've only installed the driver disk for the VS700C and R and the 4 Sonar 8.5PE disks (including e.g. additional content etc). I registered the hardware and software (DimPro, Sonar etc) online and the system seems happy to run demo projects and opens all other VST's which sound amazing. Guess then that I need to modify some settings in the VS700R since I can use the Fantom VS as an 'external device' (i.e. as in section 2) described in the following CW link: http://www.cakewalk.com/support/kb/reader.aspx?ID=2007012927 I'm not with my VS at the moment, but will try to list ins / outs etc when I'm home. Thx, J
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Psybazyme
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/20 17:02:16
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Hi again,
so I found out that I hadn't checked the box for installation of the Fantom VS editor so made an 'advanced' install adding components which I forgot. Now I see the Fantom VS in the insert / soft-synth page but when I open the editor I get 'midi devices not installed correctly' which for the life of me I can't remedy. I'm just about to check for updates and load the instrument definitions which I'm hoping will help. Any advice?
Thx, J
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Crg
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/20 18:59:29
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Open the Fantom Editor, click the set up Midi button, make sure you have Fantom Vs 700 in all four boxs. Close or Xray out. Open Surfaces/controllers, make sure you have the VS700 for device and Console selected in the in/out ports. Open Midi devices, make sure you select the Console, Fantom VS, whatever Midi Merger or controller you are using, DE-Select (uncheck) everything else listed. There is more, but that should get the Fantom working. Make sure you are using the Fantom in 32 bit mode. You've got several things going on there with the 64 bit and external device situation that I'm not aware of. How you got it to work as an external device without setting it up, I don't know . You must be using the audio portion somehow. What are controlling the Fantom with?
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Psybazyme
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/21 03:23:46
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All of the settings you suggested are made and allow everything else to work as normal. What I'm not sure about now is how to get the Fantom working in 32-bit mode (I'm running Win7 64x and guess the FanVS is trying to operate in 64 bit mode). I downloaded the Win7 64x drivers, uninstalled the previous set and reinstalled, though when inserting a soft-synth Fantom VS the 1st box which appears is still 'midi devices not setup correctly', I can click okay which brings up a blue 'loading' bar and can open the editor as with any other plugin. When I try to select a patch from a bank I get: Unable to read/write data. Choose Help - Fantom VS Editor Manual, and refer to 7. If the display uindicates 'Unable to read / data': message. How can I make sure that the Fantom is running in 32-bit mode? I'm trying to control the Fantom from a regular midi track: In = I/O Midi Omni, Out = Fantom VS. In the track which appears on inserting Fantom VS as a soft-synth I have: In = Fantom VS, Out = Master.
As I said, I can play all of the other Plugins from my midi-controller, they respond as normal and sound great, it's just the Fantom which is hanging somewhere.
I also downloaded the 'Instrument Definitions' files, extracted to 2 files called 'patches' and 'rhythms' and followed instructions for putting those into the files extensions suggested in 'Sonar 8.5 Producer' folder on the same drive as every other program files. However, I can't see those additions in the FantomVS definitions / routing list.
I'll recheck the settings this evening and otherwise contact Cakewalk about resolving these issues. Any other suggestions? This Win764x issue worries me....
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Psybazyme
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/21 08:09:26
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So after spending some time on the forum, I see that the Fantom VS doesn't operate as a plugin under Sonar8.5 64x (as far as I understand from old threads). I also understand that I can run the 64x and 32x versions together on the same machine and run the Fantom using the 32x version only. Although I have only desktop icon for the 64x version I'm hoping that re-running the installer disk with the 32x version selected will create a new icon. I'll try all of this asap and let you know what happens.
Does anyone know of any updates which allow the Fantom VS to work under 8.5 64x?
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garrigus
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/21 15:37:19
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Psybazyme
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/21 19:09:28
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Hey guys,
I have a large smile on my face having managed to get the Fantom VS (FVS) working now.
The magic words were from Craig DuBuc: "Make sure you're using the Fantom in 32bit mode", thanks Craig.
Having now re-run the installer disk for the 32bit software, I'm able to run both 32 and 64 bit versions of Sonar from Win7 64x and the Fantom sprang into life on inserting it as a normal plugin.
I guess I still need to refine driver and buffer settings though since I have rather a large latency between my midi controller and the FVS which I gather should have practically zero. Anyone care to suggest some good 'stock' values?
Could someone tell me what the pros / cons of using WDM/KS over ASIO drivers might be (in audio options/advanced)? In the Audio Options General page on the 'mixing latency' panel, my settings say: 61.9 msec latency for 2728 samples and '2' buffers in playback queue. Does this seem reasonable? All checks out when I run the Wave Profiler but the latency between midi controller plugged directly into the VS700R seems a little high.
I also noticed that if I manually play around with FVS Editor settings (i.e. using a mouse instead of mapped controls on the VS700C) whist simultaneously triggering sounds that I sometimes start getting serious dropout/crackling very suddenly which doesn't stop until I re-start the plugin. This hasn't happened so far if I modify patch settings from the console only (no mousing) or if I only modify without triggering. Has anyone else seen this?
I've spent a fair few hours over the last couple of days searching the various threads on this forum looking for answers to help me set things up, and I think it's fair to say that I'm probably slower with this technology than many others since I had never previously used a DAW or VSTs before this VS700 purchase about a week ago. Until recently I used only hardware and was adamant that I always would. I Still have a large hardware setup, some of which will likely be sold - apart from my old analogue favourites, but I'm glad I took the plung into this new adventure. It's also great that this forum exists and that knowledge is so freely given from expert to novice.
J
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Crg
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/21 19:11:52
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Psybazyme
All of the settings you suggested are made and allow everything else to work as normal. What I'm not sure about now is how to get the Fantom working in 32-bit mode (I'm running Win7 64x and guess the FanVS is trying to operate in 64 bit mode). I downloaded the Win7 64x drivers, uninstalled the previous set and reinstalled, though when inserting a soft-synth Fantom VS the 1st box which appears is still 'midi devices not setup correctly', I can click okay which brings up a blue 'loading' bar and can open the editor as with any other plugin. When I try to select a patch from a bank I get: Unable to read/write data. Choose Help - Fantom VS Editor Manual, and refer to 7. If the display uindicates 'Unable to read / data': message. How can I make sure that the Fantom is running in 32-bit mode? I'm trying to control the Fantom from a regular midi track: In = I/O Midi Omni, Out = Fantom VS. In the track which appears on inserting Fantom VS as a soft-synth I have: In = Fantom VS, Out = Master.
As I said, I can play all of the other Plugins from my midi-controller, they respond as normal and sound great, it's just the Fantom which is hanging somewhere.
I also downloaded the 'Instrument Definitions' files, extracted to 2 files called 'patches' and 'rhythms' and followed instructions for putting those into the files extensions suggested in 'Sonar 8.5 Producer' folder on the same drive as every other program files. However, I can't see those additions in the FantomVS definitions / routing list.
I'll recheck the settings this evening and otherwise contact Cakewalk about resolving these issues. Any other suggestions? This Win764x issue worries me....
Does your controller have a name? For instance, when using the PCR-800 controller via USB, it appears in the inputs-outputs in Midi Devices. I assume you're using the I/O Midi on the V700R and you have it checked in Midi devices? And you did uncheck all the other listings and leave only the Console, the Fantom, and your Midi Merger or Controller checked? I don't use 64 bit so I'd have to look all that up and figure it out. VS700 support is very good and sure they can help you if it's a 64 bit issue. In my opinion you'd be doing yourself a favor if you used a Midi Merger via USB to the Computer for your inputs. Keep us informed as to how you work it out.
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Psybazyme
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/21 19:12:22
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Hey Scott,
I just got through reading 'A Closer Look', very nice. FWIW this was the lit that convinced me to buy the VS700 and now that I seem to have things working I'm really glad I did, many thanks.
Jefferson
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Crg
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/21 19:39:38
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Ah! Glad you worked it out. Take your time, I wouldn't change settings or patches on the fly. There's a lot more to learn. Investigate the Midi page in the Fantom Editor. There are settings there that relate to the input of your controller and how the Fantom responds to the controller. You should start there. Just remember, you can go over the 128 voice polyphony limit pretty easily when you start triggering multiple channels in the Fantom. Take your time study the beast, you will be amazed.
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garrigus
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/21 20:19:20
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Psybazyme
Hey Scott,
I just got through reading 'A Closer Look', very nice. FWIW this was the lit that convinced me to buy the VS700 and now that I seem to have things working I'm really glad I did, many thanks.
Jefferson
Hey Jefferson, Thanks very much! Glad you enjoyed the eBook. I'm still having a great time with my VS700 system too. I just love the tight integration... that's what makes it special. Here's a link to the eBook (it's free) in case anyone missed it: http://garrigus.com/?VStudio700eBook Scott -- Scott R. Garrigus - Author of the Cakewalk Sonar and Sony Sound Forge Power book series. Get Sonar 8 Power - Today! Go to: http://www.garrigus.com/ - http://www.musictechshop.com/ - http://www.cooltechshop.com/ Publisher of DigiFreq - free music technology newsletter. Win a free SoundTech Vocal Trainer Package, go to: http://www.digifreq.com/digifreq/ Publisher of NewTechReview - free consumer technology newsletter. Win a free i2i Stream Wireless Music Pack, go to: http://www.newtechreview.com/newtechreview/
post edited by garrigus - 2010/07/21 20:20:59
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Psybazyme
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/24 17:09:01
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Hey Craig,
just spent a brilliant day with the Fantom VS, what an amazing addition to the system. As you said, it's huge and hugely capable, I love this beast of a synth, can see it being really handy for setting up basic sounds when inspiration strikes, then tweaking to get exactly the tone/texture I want. Since swapping to WDM/KS drivers and 256 kb buffers on both I/O I get pristine sound and 8ms roundtrip latency which I can easily live with.
Tomorrow, I'll be looking into bouncing Fantom tracks and seeing what I can do with audio in V-Vocal, can't wait....
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Jeff Evans
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/24 18:07:44
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You can produce Fantom to a very high degree. You can use it multi timbrally while you are working out your ideas but once you are settled on the music then it is possible to do this:
Solo and freeze, copy then unfreeze each Fantom track one by one starting with channel 1 and working up from there. Once frozen you can copy the midi data to a midi track and the audio data to an audio track. You can un freeze once you have done that. Then, do the same for the next channel, freeze, copy unfreeze etc. At the end of this process you still have the Fantom available to play any more parts. It also means you can get the Fantom to play many more parts than 16 as well.
Sure it takes a real time bounce each time but you end up with 16 audio tracks for each Fantom part. Then you have maximum production on each Fantom part. You also have the bounced audio which is handy for exporting to any other program etc. And for archival purposes. In two years you may not have the system at all or the Fantom but want to open the audio folder.
The ARX board effectively doubles your Fantom power giving you two. How about getting a second VS700R and have two Fantoms and two ARX expansions going on, now there is a thought.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Crg
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/24 19:29:55
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Psybazyme
Hey Craig,
just spent a brilliant day with the Fantom VS, what an amazing addition to the system. As you said, it's huge and hugely capable, I love this beast of a synth, can see it being really handy for setting up basic sounds when inspiration strikes, then tweaking to get exactly the tone/texture I want. Since swapping to WDM/KS drivers and 256 kb buffers on both I/O I get pristine sound and 8ms roundtrip latency which I can easily live with.
Tomorrow, I'll be looking into bouncing Fantom tracks and seeing what I can do with audio in V-Vocal, can't wait....
That's great Psybazyme. You weren't able to get better latency with ASIO drivers? When you bounce your Midi Fantom tracks use the method in the manual. Create a new audio track, change the output of the Fantom to the Fantom outs in the V700 audio outs in the audio menu, make the inputs on the new audio track the audio outs of the Fantom. Enable arm for recording in the new track. Disable all the other input echos and hit record. It's a real time bounce-playback.
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Psybazyme
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/24 19:37:36
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Hi Jeff,
a great post from you as usual, many thanks for this info and for everything I've vicariously learnt from your other comments; I should be sleeping now but I'm having trouble leaving my VS alone :o)
I'm very new to using DAWs for production and used only hardware over some 5 years of interest in electronic music, so all of this is still very exciting and I keep asking myself why I never invested in software before. I guess I had some 'valid' preconceptions that until recently the integration of hardware with top quality software was reserved for the prosumer market, placing it somewhat out of my aspiring but essentially 'hobbiest' grasp. I made the plunge to buy the VS-700 since for months I've been looking for new ways of working and picked up some MusicTech magazines reviewing Sonar, ProTools and Cubase, since these are what I understand from several sources to be the suites used by 'real' musicians to make 'real' music. I made my decision to buy the VS based mainly on completeness of: 1. solution, i.e. ability to go from concept to 'Red-Label' in one package (if my meagre talents do in fact bloom), 2. features within that one package, i.e. that every step allows me to make the music I actually want to make, and 3. support from a community that has a long heritage and people as passionate as I am about all of this. Whilst both Cubase and ProTools tick all of these boxes (with the possible exception of superb product support [as I understand]) my leaning towards Sonar and the VS came undoubtably from my long standing love of Rolands technologies and the now many companies under the Roland umbrella i.e. Cakewalk, Boss and Edirol to name but a few. I'm glad I made this choice, and I feel sure that the only limitation here is me, my understanding, and my creativity; I hope I can keep on learning and enjoy a setup where I can still use my beloved vintage synths under the new control of a platfrom which is as flexible as it possibly could be with todays technology.
And to think all of this started for me by simply having to know what that sound (the inexorable sliding burble of the much loved [and hated] TB-303) in an old 'Above and Beyond' track. It feels as though I've already come a long way since then though also that I still haven't even scratched the surface of what might be possible for me. I like that feeling....
Jefferson
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Psybazyme
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/24 19:50:56
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Hey Craig,
thanks for the track bounce info, I'll be trying all this out tomorrow, I've read the manual article and have a great VTC training DVD which has been really helpful (a little on the pricey side but it's a very niche product I guess).
Need to sleep now, I'm not really taking things in anymore, just twiddling presets like a child.
I'd like to set up my Virus TI2 under Sonar, has anyone any experience here? Not that I'm expecting much bother, Access seems to have flourished with it's Total Integration tech, I just haven't taken advantage yet.
I'll let you know how I get on.
Cheers,
J
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Jeff Evans
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/07/25 09:53:15
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Hi Jefferson I think now more than before affordable software is out there to accomplish what it is you want to do. The V Studio is a fairly serious choice for a hobbyist. It will do that well and pro level easily. I used to have a large hardware setup and the thing that attracted me to Sonar was the instrument range and the variance in their sound.
You mention Music Tech magazine. Make sure you check out that whole MusicTech Focus issue devoted to Sonar 8. There is a lot of info in that issue. I think Dimension works well and so is Rapture a great instrument too and also z3ta+ I have got the Mini Moog Tribute expansion pack for Rapture and it is a blast! I also use Native Instruments Absynth, FM 7 and Massive just for some extra artillery. Externally I run 5 samplers. 2 Kurzweil K2000's, 2 Emulators (e6400 and E5000) and a Yamaha A4000 is about to arrive in my setup too. I have huge libraries for all those. If you have got hardware instruments all you need is a good midi interface and you are away. The one midi out is OK on the VS700R but a separate midi interface will give you 8 midi ports out and that is what you need even for only 8 devices. There are plenty of midi retro fits around too for old machines.
There are also some really great free VST instruments which just sound killer.
Thing I love about Fantom is not only does it sound great on its own but it layers up with all the other Sonar instrumets so well and all without any CPU hit. It is just very handy having a big fat Roland synth on standy the whole time. Has got me thinking about the Fantom harwdare keyboards now too. Yamaha Motif's are pretty serious too I hear.
Specs i5-2500K 3.5 Ghz - 8 Gb RAM - Win 7 64 bit - ATI Radeon HD6900 Series - RME PCI HDSP9632 - Steinberg Midex 8 Midi interface - Faderport 8- Studio One V4 - iMac 2.5Ghz Core i5 - Sierra 10.12.6 - Focusrite Clarett thunderbolt interface Poor minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas -Eleanor Roosevelt
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Erypsus
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/08/05 11:45:29
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How do you bounce down the Fantom? When I try to export my project, the Fantom sounds aren't heard.
post edited by Erypsus - 2010/08/05 11:56:20
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Crg
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/08/05 19:28:20
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Erypsus
How do you bounce down the Fantom? When I try to export my project, the Fantom sounds aren't heard.
Well, you edited out your post, so I'm not sure if you solved those problems? To bounce down the Fantom create a new audio track, select the audio outs of the Fantom for the input. Enable input echo on that track, turn off input echo on all other tracks. Arm the new track to record, hit record and play your Fantom Midi data in real time. What did you have to turn off to adjust your latency problem?
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Erypsus
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/08/06 11:10:17
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I edited out a typo.
I've never used that input echo thing before; thanks for mentioning that! This is a little tedious of a process, but I'll deal.
I can't fix the latency problem completely; I was on the phone with tech support yesterday and they still couldn't help me entirely. If I bring the buffer down I start getting pops and clicks in the audio. I just shift all my Fantom tracks over by a 16th or 8th note, depending on the project, to sync it up. My next step is to upgrade to Windows 7 (I'm running XP Pro!)
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Crg
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/08/06 18:59:49
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I got a much different email notification. I deleted it so I don't remember it all but you mentioned turning things off to reduce latency. Could you outline what you turned off?
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pan.Krutilkin
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/09/21 11:15:02
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Guys, where can I listen to Fantom VS sounds?
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e.Blue
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Re: RE: fantom vs
2010/09/21 15:37:47
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pan.Krutilkin
Guys, where can I listen to Fantom VS sounds?
The Fantom VS has the same sound engine as the Roland Fantom G series keyboards. It also supports the same ARX expansion modules as the keyboards. You can watch some videos and hear audio samples here. http://www.roland.com/synth/Fantom/movies.html There are also tons of other videos on Youtube.com Please be aware that one big limitation of the Fantom VS versus the Fantom G keyboards is that it can't import any of the external sounds designed for the G keyboards. You can only use the sounds that come with it or custom sounds that you have created and saved. -eB
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