How to bounce MIDI tracks when using external sequencer?

Why not record the external MIDI in Sonar then bounce it?

This is something "live bounce" should take care of, but it only claims to record live audio. Worth trying once, though.

(Sonar 8 Ref. p.1028)
Live input bounce
When using the Bounce to Track(s) command to bounce audio in realtime,
you can now choose to include any live audio input in the bounce.
To allow live input during bounce
1. On the Edit menu, click Bounce to Track(s) to open the Bounce to
Track(s) dialog.
2. Under Mix Enables, clear the Fast Bounce check box and select the
Live Input check box.

This is not possible in SONAR. The only viable option is to patch an output back to an input, either analog or digital (if your audio interface's mixer supports this) and record the live output of the soft synth in real time to a new audio track.

The problem is that Sonar is a sequencer and is meant to act as one. You are using it, as you say, a sound module when fundamentally that is not what Sonar is. If you can drive the synths in Sonar with the external gear there is no reason you can not record the MIDI that is being sent to Sonar.  Once that is done you can freeze all the synths. This is the only good way to do this. Further, if it is working as you say then Sonar can record the MIDI without any problems.

I selected "all" and then went through the bounce to track procedure, with the synth audio track as the source and a new track as the destination, and with fast bounce off, live bounce on, audible bounce on.

I'll be danged. I almost gave this a try, but I didn't think it would let the Soft Synth host track generate new audio. I just tried it, and it worked for me as well. You've solved the real-time soft synth recording conundrum, my boy. Nice work. Better go holler this from the rooftops. There have been a lot of people out there asking about it.

checkout Cantible 2 Performer

Hey, Jim, I'd like rudely to hijack this thread for a second to ask you about Cantabile.  I'd noticed that you had name-checekd it a couple of times recently and so I downloaded the Lite version to evaluate it.  Unfortunately it crashes during its VST scan always on NI plugs, so I have not been able to evaluate it.  Have you had any similar experiences and is there a work-around? A quick RTFM scan hasn't given me any clues.  The NI plugs are pretty important to me, so I wouldn't want to disable them.

Sorry to OP for my butting in this way.

EGreenMusic


Hello all,

I am using an external sequencer (MV, MPC, etc) and I am using Sonar 8 as a sound module, using multiple VSTs.  I sequence all my tracks on the external hardware sequencer, and then I want to mix the song down (bounce the track) so I can mix the song down. 

When Sonar is the master sequencer, you can just "Bounce" the track to a wave; however, I am using an external sequencer, so all the MIDI information is on the hardware.  How can I bounce the track down for each VST in Sonar 8 without transfering the MIDI file on the external sequencer into Sonar?

Thanks!

The only way is to record the external sequence to a track as audio. Then you can bounce or export. So "bounce" is the wrong word to use here, what you will be doing is "recording".   Sonar doesn't have the ability to record an input and mix it with a bounce or export even if you uncheck fast bounce.
 
Are you using MTC to make sure the external sequence is following the timeline ?

I agree with Frank. I just go ahead and record the audio from my external synth into SONAR. At one point I tried using External Insert and bounce, but it was really just an experiment and didn't save me any time, since I still had to turn off "fast bounce" anyway. It takes as long as a real-time recording.

What's nice about having an interface with multiple in/outs (MOTU Ultralite) is that I can record all of my Motif parts in one swell foop, so that does save multiple passes and consequently time.

P.S. @Frank: I noticed in another thread you mentioned using the SPDIF clock if you're using a SPDIF connection. I hadn't thought about that before, but I use both SPDIF and analog connections when I'm recording into SONAR, and I haven't noticed any timing problems. I can try switching to the SPDIF clock next chance, but I haven't had any problems so far. Does it just fall back to the lowest common denominator, if you know, or should I do some "serious testing"?

Thanks-

-Susan

John


So how do you do this with hardware that has no audio MPCs for example? What I mean its the MIDI that is triggering softsynths in Sonar not audio on the hardware.

The best way would be to export and import the midi file.  Other then that you would have to route the software synth to an output pair on the sound card and then record that back into the inputs. If there are other tracks in the sequence you would need a sound card with more the one set of outputs.

The best way would be to export and import the midi file.  Other then that you would have to route the software synth to an output pair on the sound card and then record that back into the inputs. If there are other tracks in the sequence you would need a sound card with more the one set of outputs.

No offense intended, but you and maybe some other posters really need to go back and read the whole thread in detail. The OP already said he has his reasons for keeping the MIDI in the hardware, and bvideo came up with a way to bounce soft synths with external MIDI input in real time using the Live Input feature of 8.x that the OP used successfully to achieve his goal.

Case closed.

I clearly misunderstood John's question, then.

The best way would be to export and import the midi file.

The MIDI data is already in SONAR when I record the Motif's output. I'm just playing it back and/or recording it into SONAR.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

-Susan

Same here Susan that is what I was trying to get the OP to understand. The MIDI data that is driving the softsynths can be recorded in Sonar and then use to bounce or freeze the synths to audio. It is really a simple process. Plus it gives the OP the option of being able to edit it at will, the MIDI data that is.

EGreenMusic


I think everyone is doing something some-what similar but bvideo and brundlefly got what I was trying to do. 

I think the idea of transferring files, and such is cumbersome and old school.  The way bvideo described worked exactly how I would expect.  It is like running an MPC 2000 as a sequencer and a Yamaha Motif as the sound module and then recording the tracks into Sonar, except instead of using a Motif as a sound module, you use Sonar VSTs.  A very simple process, thanks again.

I'm thinking using a hardware sequencer is the old part of this, transfering files to a computer is how you get out of old school.

bvideo
I tried something freaky and got a result. Perhaps you can make a procedure out of it.

I made a project with just one softsynth track pair. I entered one MIDI event on the midi track. As you predicted, this enabled "bounce to tracks" in the edit menu. I enabled the echo on the midi track. I selected "all" and then went through the bounce to track procedure, with the synth audio track as the source and a new track as the destination, and with fast bounce off, live bounce on, audible bounce on. The trick is to place an event far enough out on the timeline so that the bounce will spend enough (real) time to let you play the whole song from your external sequencer. While the bounce was running, I played notes on my controller. I could see meters running and hear the audio. When I canceled the bounce and elected to "save the audio", I saw the new track and an audio waveform appear and I could play back that track and it did indeed record the audio of what I played.

Bill B.

Unbelievable.  Is this still the way to record live soft synths using lets say the UA1G, which has one stereo in and out?